How Many Kata am I or are You Doing?

[Kosho Gakkusei]

When considering how many Kata you practice, do you look at differing levels ie. Shodan, Nidan as portions of the same Kata or as a Kata in themselves?

I usually tell people that I practice almost 30 Kata (29 to be precise) but that's with counting Shodans, Nidans, -Shos, & Dais, etc. If I look at them as segments of the same Kata then it's really 12.

I guess for the purpose of learning the Kata for me it was learning 29 different forms. But what I'm actually studying is 12 unique Kata.

What are some of your thoughts on the matter?

_Don Flatt

 

[tshadowchaser]

I have over 40 that I know but I have to admit to practicing only about half that number on any regular bases

 

[Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu]

There are a lot of stories, especially with old Okinawan instructors, that they would only learn 3-4 forms sometimes spending 3-4 years per form before being allowed to move on. They didn't just learn the form they practiced until they understood the form. I think that today there isn't as much (not saying none) emphasis on understanding forms. But then this can come to the argument that some people say there are all these hidden techniques in Kata and those that say they are all very straight forward. I think that there are more to most Katas then some people see, therefore I don't think it's the number of forms you know it's whether or not you understand what they are and why you practice them.

 

[ppko]

There are a lot of stories, especially with old Okinawan instructors, that they would only learn 3-4 forms sometimes spending 3-4 years per form before being allowed to move on. They didn't just learn the form they practiced until they understood the form. I think that today there isn't as much (not saying none) emphasis on understanding forms. But then this can come to the argument that some people say there are all these hidden techniques in Kata and those that say they are all very straight forward. I think that there are more to most Katas then some people see, therefore I don't think it's the number of forms you know it's whether or not you understand what they are and why you practice them.

Most people believe that Azato Yasutsune (Ankoh) is the one that started the 3-4 years per form, as that is what he made his only student (Gichen Funikoshi) do. I have personally narrowed the kata I teach down to just 6 for more in depth study of each.

 

[stoneheart]

I probably need to trim down my list to a more manageable number, but it's hard to let go of something you've learned. I've been fortunate enough to have been exposed to some really good instructors in a variety of styles. It seems almost disrespectful to not practice what they shared with me.

Believe it or not I run all these kata below at least every other day. My self-practice at home is essentially all kata with some hojo undo thrown in. And oddly enough, I practice both the Korean and Okinawan versions of a few of the Pinans. I also teach tae kwon do at a community center and we're affiliating with the AIMAA, which uses BOTH the Chang Hon and Tae Guk series of forms, so that should be a fun effort LEARNING them all. I know the choreography of the hyung already, but I'm an applications guy and I know it takes time and repetition to really master a form. If I had more spare time, I'd try to come up with specific bunkai to teach for the Korean forms. I have books from both Mr. Anslow and Mr. Abernathy to provide ideas, and of course I can use existing bunkai I learned from the shorin-ryu forms that could be applied in similar sequences.


Shorin-Ryu
Pinan 1-5
Naihanchi 1-3
Passai
Ananku
Rohai

Goju-Ryu
Sanchin
Gekisai 1-3
Saifa
Seisan
Seipai
Seiunchin
Tenchi
Seiryu
Tensho

Taekwondo
Pyong An 2
Pyong An 4

Kobudo
Tokomine No Kon
Urashi No kon
Shishi No Kon

Hua Quan
18 Lo Han Hands

 

[chinto]

When considering how many Kata you practice, do you look at differing levels ie. Shodan, Nidan as portions of the same Kata or as a Kata in themselves?

I usually tell people that I practice almost 30 Kata (29 to be precise) but that's with counting Shodans, Nidans, -Shos, & Dais, etc. If I look at them as segments of the same Kata then it's really 12.

I guess for the purpose of learning the Kata for me it was learning 29 different forms. But what I'm actually studying is 12 unique Kata.

What are some of your thoughts on the matter?

_Don Flatt

I do 19 and I am a brown belt. working on the others.. there are 22 empty hand kata in the system and I must know them all and s at least 6 or so kubudo/koujitsu kata to test for shodan-ho. All the kata must be polished and your head in the right place too... and I know about 5 kobujitsu/kobudo kata as well. In the system I am learning and studing you must know all the empty hand kata and at least some of the weapons kata to teast for shodan-ho ( probationary shodan rank).


I got a long way to go.....

Of course when you get to the dansha rank, you start over ...

 

[TimoS]

At the moment I'm doing 7 kata, out of about 20. Not sure of the exact number, since I've only recently "defected" from japanese to okinawan karate and therefore I have to relearn all the kata (and learn some new ones also). Now I'm also considering taking some kobudo alongside the karate lessons, so the number will probably increase quite a lot

 

[Kosho Gakkusei]

Very interesting responses but my original question is: What is the right way to look at it as different Kata or segments of a bigger Kata?
For example:
Is the Pinan 1 Kata done in 5 segments or is it 5 Kata. The thought that I have is that each series of Kata teaches a particular lesson but the segments are expansion for further study. I'm starting to look at it as being 1 Kata with 5 segments as I'm less concerned with learning how to perform the movements and studying how to use them. What are your thoughts? Are the different segments just to take the Kata and break into bite size peices to make it easier to learn the movements? Is Pinan 2 a new lesson or an expansion/addition to Pinan 1?

The empty handed Kata I study are 1. Juni Ippon (1-3), 2. Pinan (1-5), 3. Neko Buto (1-3), 4. Naihanchi (1-3), 5. Ennogyo (1-3), 6. Naihanno (2 variations), 7. Miyama (1-3), 8. Passai (major/minor), 9. Kusanku (major/minor), 10. Empi, 11. Gankaku, & 12. Shudoso. Depentding on how you look at it, counting segments/variations as Kata there are 29 but if I count segments as portions of a Kata there are only 12? I used to think 29 but now I'm inclined to look at it as 12.

_Don Flatt

 

[twendkata71]

I practice and teach 40 kata, including different varations of the same kata from the four major styles of Japanese karate do as well as Okinawan kata that I learn from Shorin ryu.
fukyugata 1&2,Pinan 1-5,Naihanchi 1-3,wansu,ananko,chinto,chinte,gankaku,seienchin,seyunchin,bassai dai(WKF/Shito ryu),Bassai dai(Shotokan), Koryu passai, Chibanna Kusanku,kanku dai, kanku sho,Gojushiho dai, gojushiho sho,koryu goju yonpo, empi, wansu, wankan, sochin,seipai, suparempei, sanchin,nijushiho,kosokun dai, kosokun sho, jion, Giin,ueseishi,unsu.
I made the effort to learn all of these kata with the idea that it would give me an endless curriculum of techniques to teach my students and for me to train with. I just have a great thirst for knowledge in my journey.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

I practice and teach 19 kata not including kobudo and I am adding one more.
Taikiyoku Shodan
Fukyugata Shodan & Nidan
Pinan Shodan - Godan
Naihanchi Shodan - Sandan
Passai Sho & Dai
Wanshu
Seisan
Jion
Gojushiho
Kusanku
Hakutsuru
Chinto

 

[TimoS]

What is the right way to look at it as different Kata or segments of a bigger Kata?

At least at the moment I tend to think of all kata as a different lesson, independent of others. Pinan series might be considered part of a bigger entity, but then again, as some of my more experienced friends have pointed out, the first two Pinan seem to be from a totally different set than the last three (or was it the first three and last two, can't honestly remember anymore).

Oh and the kata that is in our curriculum:

Fukuygata 1&2, Seisan, Ananku, Wansu, Gojushiho, Passai, Wanchin, Chinto, Kusanku, Tokumine no kun, Pinan 1-5, Naifanchi 1-3, Jion and Passai Guwa (aka Motobu no Passai). So far I've learned the "outer form" of Fukyugata 1 to Passai (by the outer form I mean that I can do the form adequately, but the actual bunkai is still something I need to learn. I copied that expression from my former sensei). All the kata from Pinan 1 onwards are apparently considered to be additional kata and therefore not part of the core curriculum, but I think we're still required to know them

 

[terryl965]

Me and the wife do about forty three, my oldest son does roughly fifty two, my two youngest sons know around twenty five.

 

[JWLuiza]

That is one way to look at it, however, I think the Pinan/Heian/Pyong Ahn each have their own lessons and are orthagonal to each other. So I would consider each a unit unto itself. For example, the work in Pinan Samdan/Pyong Ahn Sadan is vastly different than the techniques in Pinan Godan...

Of the three tekki/naihanchi, I only know the first two, but the oyo are so different, that i would consider them different as well.

your thoughts?

 

[jks9199]

Gosh...

I feel like a piker.

I, with varying degrees of emphasis, practice or have learned about 10 forms, including weapon forms. I'm not counting punching sequence drills, stance drills, and the like. I feel I know about 3 of those forms pretty well; another 3 fairly well... and the rest? I can do them. I'm still finding new things in the very first form we teach...

 

[Brandon Fisher]

Gosh...

I feel like a piker.

I, with varying degrees of emphasis, practice or have learned about 10 forms, including weapon forms. I'm not counting punching sequence drills, stance drills, and the like. I feel I know about 3 of those forms pretty well; another 3 fairly well... and the rest? I can do them. I'm still finding new things in the very first form we teach...

Don't feel bad I have picked these up over the past 21 years. The first time I ever did Naihanchi Shodan was in 1986 then I didn't do it again until 1992 when I went to Indiana.

 

[chinto]

Don't feel bad I have picked these up over the past 21 years. The first time I ever did Naihanchi Shodan was in 1986 then I didn't do it again until 1992 when I went to Indiana.

also some systems have more kata then others.... that is a factor I would say in how meany some may be doing too.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

also some systems have more kata then others.... that is a factor I would say in how meany some may be doing too.

No doubt. Like Shito Ryu is one that has a lot of kata.

 

[searcher]

I train quite a few, but that is mostly from studying multiple styles.

 

[setboy]

Open hand
White belt beginner kata. I think it is close to one of the Taikiyoku or Pinan kata.
Seisan
Seiunchin
Naihanchi
Wansu
Chinto
Sanchin
Kusanku
Sunsu

Kobudo
Tokumine no Kun
Kusanku Sai
Urashi no Kun

so about 12

 

[chinto]

No doubt. Like Shito Ryu is one that has a lot of kata.

yes and so does shobayashi, but some other systems have less.