How long to complete your style?

[ShortBridge]

I guess I'm the only one who watches "The Librarians". Sorry, not a meaningful contribution to the thread.

 

[Juany118]

It would be 10 plus years to compete at MMA at a top level.

Wait. 20 hrs a week? That is full time plus some.

It's a lot of time indeed but I think @Danny T and his Sifu are taking into account that you can do a fair amount of it solo. I can only make so many classes a week because of work but I probably spend at least an hour each day (sometimes 2 or more if I am really trying to get something down), even on class days, doing various drills some shadow boxing, others using some home apparatus, and forms. Then class is 90 minutes long 2 days a week. I could see someone more fanatical than making that 2 + hours I do occassionally a more consistent thing.

 

[Juany118]

Let me add that I agree that you never complete a system. Once you are competent, even if you can do every technique, form and drill in your sleep, you make the art yours. Since we constantly change as we age, that means we are also constantly, for lack of a better term, reinventing your art.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Since we constantly change as we age, that means we are also constantly, for lack of a better term, reinventing your art.

This is true. The longer that you have trained your art, the more new idea that you may come up yourself. One day when you are old, you come up some new idea. But since your tournament testing time is over. You no longer spar/wrestle. You don't have change to test your new idea. If you teach those new idea to your students, you will pass down some non-tested MA skill. Sometime we can see some unrealistic skill online video just because that. So the idea of "reinventing your art" can be a 2 edges sword.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This is true. The longer that you have trained your art, the more new idea that you may come up yourself. One day when you are old, you come up some new idea. But since your tournament testing time is over. You no longer spar/wrestle. You don't have change to test your new idea. If you teach those new idea to your students, you will pass down some non-tested MA skill. Sometime we can see some unrealistic skill online video just because that. So the idea of "reinventing your art" can be a 2 edges sword.

It can also be an issue that the old martial artist is so very good at very subtle use of principles that he manages to make something work that won't be feasible for a beginner or intermediate student. He then decides this thing is wonderful and should be taught to all, and the art starts to take longer and longer to become effective.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

It can also be an issue that the old martial artist is so very good at very subtle use of principles that he manages to make something work that won't be feasible for a beginner or intermediate student. He then decides this thing is wonderful and should be taught to all, and the art starts to take longer and longer to become effective.

Agree! This can be another issue too. This is why I have always started with "rhino guard" and move into "zombie guard". I will never start from "zombie guard" and by pass the "rhino guard".

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Agree! This can be another issue too. This is why I have always started with "rhino guard" and move into "zombie guard". I will never start from "zombie guard" and by pass the "rhino guard".

I need to look those terms up. To me, they sound like made-up terms, though I know they refer to something very real. Or are you Master Ken in disguise?

 

[DanT]

I wish I could find a better way of saying "complete the system"... I hope you all know what I mean. Sort of like anything else, you complete your formal training, but that doesn't mean you stop learning. I guess I mean, at what point would you be ready to teach, on your own, without your sifus guidance.

 

[DanT]

I wish I could find a better way of saying "complete the system"... I hope you all know what I mean. Sort of like anything else, you complete your formal training, but that doesn't mean you stop learning. I guess I mean, at what point would you be ready to teach, on your own, without your sifus guidance.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I need to look those terms up. To me, they sound like made-up terms, though I know they refer to something very real. Or are you Master Ken in disguise?

You won't be able to find those terms anywhere online. I created these 2 terms myself.

The

- rhino guard can close (shut down) your center 100%. It's used for beginner who doesn't have skill to protect his center.
- zombie guard can open your center. It's used for those who already has the skill and be able to close his center whenever he needs to.

The main idea is during fight, if you can extend your

- right arm between your opponent's left arm and his head,
- left arm between your opponent's right arm and his head,

you can separate his arms away from his body and disable his striking ability. The CMA original term was "分手(Fen Shou) - separate hands". In order to achieve this goal, you can start from "rhino guard", or you can start from "zombie guard" depending on your skill level.

This is how the "zombie guard" looks like.

 

[Juany118]

This is true. The longer that you have trained your art, the more new idea that you may come up yourself. One day when you are old, you come up some new idea. But since your tournament testing time is over. You no longer spar/wrestle. You don't have change to test your new idea. If you teach those new idea to your students, you will pass down some non-tested MA skill. Sometime we can see some unrealistic skill online video just because that. So the idea of "reinventing your art" can be a 2 edges sword.

I was more talking about the effects of age on the body vs coming up with new ideas. You get less flexible, or the knee problems start so leaping kicks and or "high kicks" stop being common in your tool box. You loose muscle mass so maybe you start focusing more on techniques that are about where you hit vs how hard you can hit.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I was more talking about the effects of age on the body vs coming up with new ideas. You get less flexible, or the knee problems start so leaping kicks and or "high kicks" stop being common in your tool box. You loose muscle mass so maybe you start focusing more on techniques that are about where you hit vs how hard you can hit.

And then someone asks you why the techniques you focus on don't show up in UFC matches.

 

[KangTsai]

NONE SHALL EVER "COMPLETE"

 

[Gerry Seymour]

NONE SHALL EVER "COMPLETE"

That point has been clarified, and without shouting.

 

[DanT]

That point has been clarified, and without shouting.

Thanks haha

 

[JR 137]

I wish I could find a better way of saying "complete the system"... I hope you all know what I mean. Sort of like anything else, you complete your formal training, but that doesn't mean you stop learning. I guess I mean, at what point would you be ready to teach, on your own, without your sifus guidance.

I think you're saying two different things, actually.

How long does it take to complete the syllabus (not learning any new material such as a new kata)?
- Every art's syllabus ends at a different point/rank.

How long until you can be recognized as a chief instructor?
- Every organization has different criteria for opening your own school.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think you're saying two different things, actually.

How long does it take to complete the syllabus (not learning any new material such as a new kata)?
- Every art's syllabus ends at a different point/rank.

How long until you can be recognized as a chief instructor?
- Every organization has different criteria for opening your own school.

Agreed. In the NGAA, for instance, the core curriculum is complete before brown belt (there's a bit more after shodan, but it's rarely seen, so not part of the core). Instructor certification (full instructor, can run a school) is at shodan. Many styles have even bigger distances between those two points.

 

[wingerjim]

Basically I asked my Sifu (he teaches white crane, wing chun, and northern shaolin) how long it takes to complete (attain a high level of skill and be proficient in all aspects of the system) each style. His answer was that it depends on the student, but generally an average Joe who works his butt off (minimum 20 h of training a week) could do:

-wing chun in 8 years
-northern shaolin in 12 years
-white crane in 20 years

How about in your style?

That is an interesting question you bring up. I think it depends completely on the opponent. I can imagine from a master's perspective or another trained individual a high level of proficiency is a "higher" level vs the proficiency needed against an average Joe. I think one who trains in most any martial art diligently for 2-3 years is more proficient that an average Joe. Now take a boxer that will one day be the World Heavy Weight champion, he may be very proficient in fighting in 1 year but likely spends 50 hrs per week training, which most of us do not have this kind of time. On the flip side I have seen students with very weak athletic skills work as hard as any other student for 2-3 years or more and just miss the mark on good adaptation and lack proficiency, so obviously they take much more time and simply never reach the higher applications.