How long to Black Belt?

[jsdduke]

Always an interesting subject and hard to gauge.As far as black belt time frame goes I understand each style and organization have there own requirements, but rank is earned not given.Be that as it may, there is more to Black Belt than physical skills alone. There is a level of maturity that is involved. As a Black Belt you set the standard for the lower ranks whether you believe it or not.Everything you do has bearing on them.Also remembering that 1st Black is just the beginning step in a long and profitable journey.

 

[Fluffy]

TKD seems to go quick, you only need to know the basics.....3-4 years.

-Fluff

 

[stone_dragone]

I began studying karate in March, 1994 and was promoted to Shodan in August 2000. During that time, I also completed 4 years of college, Basic training and AIT in the Army one summer, Jump School another summer, ROTC Advanced camp the summer after that and Air Assault School just prior to testing that August. If I had not gone to college so far away or joined the army, I probably could have tested almost two years earlier. I had not stopped training, practicing or studying for the entire time (and still haven't). Would I have been ready (was I ready in 2000?) I must have been, since I tested. There was a "suggested minimum" time, but it was based on preparedness, maturity, skill, etc. During the eight hour test for Shodan, I lost 10 lbs.

After moving to Alabama, my ATA instructor knew that I had already studied martial arts for 8 years when I joined his school and waived my minimum time requirement for promotion, and in about a year or so, after completing the curriculum up to 1st Degree, I tested for that rank in front of a board of examiners in a formal manner and passed. The test included forms, breaking and sparring. I was physically acvtive for about 25-35 minutes during that 3 hour test.

When I came to Tennessee, I began studying Jujika Jujutsu (which is more a sub-style of Shotokan than jujutsu) and, having now a decade in the martial arts, my instructor again waived the minimum time for testing and after a year of teaching, training (since his style is very close to my own), and completing the 4 day formal test (including a written exam, verbal, aikijitsu and pressure-point based self-defense, kata, bunkai, sparring and observation over time), I was promoted to Sandan and presented my Menkyo (teaching certificate) in this system.

In each of the three schools, the standards for testing, the time between tests and the material provided all varied tremendously, even if the requirement had not been waived at the latter two schools.

Is testing important? It's as important as the student lets it be, the teacher makes it and the intra-school culture requires it to be.

Are belt/ranks important? To those who feel like they have truly earned it, yes...at least important enough for those who have earned it to be upset when someone who hasn't earned it claims to have it. To those who feel that it is worth lying about, it must be worth it, too. To those who don't need the incumberance of ranks, it must not be, since they don't see the sense in it.

Is it important to me? Based on my earlier thought, it must be. I get greatly irritated when I see an overweight, lazy 7 year old walking around Wal-mart with a 3rd degree black belt on his waist and a Snickers in his pie-hole (don't get me wrong, I love Snickers!). It's important enough to me to ensure that my students are ready, beyond a shadow of a doubt, for their next level of training before I even consider testing them for the next higher rank. I will NOT be the teacher that is represented by that little fat kid in a karategi.

Are belts and rank what it's all about? If it is to you, then you probably won't last long enough to get it, any way. If you are studying for the sake of learning, improving and discovering, then the ranks will come.

Those martial artists and teachers that maintain what some would consider a high standard for promotion must be careful, however, to avoid the "Guardian of the Belt" mentality. The feeling that "I got mine, I'll keep you from getting yours" is a problem in military schools (airborne, ranger, etc) as well as in some types of dojos/dojangs/kwoons/gyms/etc. It is our duty to our students to teach them, evaluate them and, if applicable, promote them to the next higher level of training when they have put in the required effort and/or time without making it nearly impossible to attain...whether it be a yellow belt, black belt or some other level of certification. It has to be challenging, since what we gain too easily we esteem too lightly, but it has to be do-able.

Our responsibility is easy...don't drop the standards to the student, bring the students up to the standard.

I think thats all I have to say about that. Cheers!

 

[Cirdan]

It takes as long as it takes. Some weeks ago a 70year old man at our ju jutsu club achieved his 1.dan after 10 years of dedicated training and I consider that a rare accomplishment.

Anyway I fail to see the black belt (or any other belt) as a goal in it self. It is merely a door you pass trough on the path.

Average time for a fit student who trains regularly?
hmm let`s see...

Karate: 4.5-6 years

Ju jutsu 4-6 years

Nihon Kobudo (TSKSR): 3-4 years

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

TKD seems to go quick, you only need to know the basics.....3-4 years.

-Fluff

It really depends on the MA style you practice. Your estimate on TKD seems about right. As far as BJJ goes, that could take 8 to 10 years. IMHO, it's really all about your individual style, your dedication and your commitment... :asian:

 

[AceHBK]

Very interesting thread and a long read I might add.
It all depends on the student and commitment.
I take TKD and when I first started I was all about the belt. Now I have been doing it a year and the belt means nothing to me now.
It is all about learning more and more and putting time in.
If I could, I wouldnt wear it. If we all take martial arts we know it will take a lot of time, so why think about belts?
It is the knowledge and wisdom that I now care about.
lol..guess after a year you start getting wiser.

 

[Kacey]

There's a minimum of 3 - 3 1/2 year, which is what I put in the poll, but most people take longer. As Ace said, it depends on the commitment of the person, the number of classes attended, the time spent practicing outside of class, the extra classes attended, and so on... it can take much longer than that, and generally does.

 

[Haze]

Average is about 4 yrs or so at my dojo. I took just over 4 years but have not tested since that (1991) Could have tested back in 1993 for nidan but.................then left training for 12 years..................... back now and they want me to test for nidan after 1 year back..........we will see.............

Thing is at 55 yrs old I am there to train, learn, teach what I can and my belt is black and it can't get any blacker. :idunno:

 

[Keikai]

Within the Tsutsumi Ryu it takes as long as it takes. The "record" to gain Shodan under my teacher was 7 years, the average was more like 12 - 15 years. We all spent a fair while on Nidan and I think the sfirst was at least 10 years. Sandan was another 6 or 7 years.

The main reason for this is the number of sections to each grade.

2nd kyu - 2 parts
1st kyu - 7 parts
1st dan - 9 parts
2nd dan - 9 parts
3rd dan - 12 parts

Not all sections are practical but take time to do.

Tsutsumi Ryu Ju Jutsu does not have minimu time requirement for gradings. The grades themselves dictate the times. There are no children black grades, it is simply impossible for them to gain black. The degree of technical understanding and written requirements is beyond children.

Greg Palmer 4th Dan
Tsutsumi Hozan Ryu

 

[Loki]

In Krav Maga we average at 7-8 years for black belt, which is 7th in number. Most people take longer, a few people take less.

 

[Lynne]

In my Tang Soo Do school, it takes at least 3-1/2 - 4 years. That's the minimum.

 

[Gordon Nore]

10 years minimum at mine. Took me eleven, but I probably took at least a year off when I went back to school.

 

[Fushichou]

In the system I'm now training in, the absolute minimum is 3 & 1/2 years if you test as soon as you can and pass every test, but in practice it's often more like 4 or 5 years as people sometimes don't pass their tests (or their instructors don't feel they are ready to test at the minimum amount of time-in-rank and tell them to wait a few months).

Then again, that's a minimum. I started training in 1998, and have had two long gaps in my training and am now at 3rd Kyu, about to test for 2nd in December. In terms of actual time at the dojo studying, I've spent about 3 years with this system, and if I keep at it I could make Shodan in a little more than a year and a half from now, making it about 11 years to my 1st Black.

Since it has come up, the system also does not award dan ranks to anybody under the age of 16. Since in this system a dan rank includes teaching responsibilities and presumes a certain level of responsibility and personal development the idea is that you have to be a certain age and level of maturity to rightfully hold one.

 

[Fiendlover]

if someone is really dedicated to the art then they can probably reach black belt in about 5 years. that's if they do it the right way. see some people skip ranks and that really gets on my nerves. they skip ranks in order to get ahead of everyone else and "be the best" out of everyone. they take private lessons and pay tons of money to do this when that's not even the point. the point isn't to get ahead, the point is to do at your own pace and beat yourself not others. it's not a race.

i had to get out of karate for two years and still counting for family reasons and i got to 3rd class brown in 4 years in another year i probably would've gotten to black which hopefully as soon as i get my license and a car i can go back to karate and continue my way to black belt.

 

[Jai]

I am testing on a more regular basis then what is normal in Shotokan. The biggest factor is previous training in Karate as well as other styles. I've been told as long as I stay on track and keep working like I have been I should have no problem testing for 1 Dan next September. That would put me at one year and nine months roughly. I don't see it happening that fast personally. sooner or later I'm going to slow down lol.

 

[terryl965]

I am testing on a more regular basis then what is normal in Shotokan. The biggest factor is previous training in Karate as well as other styles. I've been told as long as I stay on track and keep working like I have been I should have no problem testing for 1 Dan next September. That would put me at one year and nine months roughly. I don't see it happening that fast personally. sooner or later I'm going to slow down lol.

There is no hurry Jai take your time, stop smell the roses!

 

[Jai]

There is no hurry Jai take your time, stop smell the roses!

The roses are nice and all but outside factors are fast approaching. I start school in two and a half months, and I have been contacted about a possible new job. Between those my training time will be down to maybe an hour or two a week tops from the six hours a week I currently partake.

 

[terryl965]

The roses are nice and all but outside factors are fast approaching. I start school in two and a half months, and I have been contacted about a possible new job. Between those my training time will be down to maybe an hour or two a week tops from the six hours a week I currently partake.

You are going to be a busy man.

 

[Jai]

That's no joke, but it keeps me out of trouble

 

[terryl965]

That's no joke, but it keeps me out of trouble

Yes it will