I also say it takes as long as it takes. At my school, it depends on a person's previous martial arts experience, experience with other physical activities (sense of their body in motion), frequency of attendance and commitment to studying seriously outside of class. Some people have moved to shodan 4 years or so; it took me nearly six. It's not a denotation that means much, in the end, except to show that you have been studying seriously for a while.
Blaze Dragon
Blue Belt
I think it depends on a great deal of things, style (ie number of ranks and material per rank), school, and student.
I've seen schools that you get your belt based on time and money, you will be promoted if you show up and try. I've seen these schools to promoted even if our not ready. I've not been fond of these "program dojos". Granted in some cases if they follow the program they will be ready but I've seen some piss pour black belts come out of programs like this.
I also think style makes a difference and how many ranks there are. Some schools I've seen do the tip system where you stay the same rank but you change the number of tips or strips on your belt, this way you still see progress but your ranking at a different pace sometimes.
Lastly I think it's the student the more they put in, I've known schools that promote when your ready.
My school is like that, if your ready you get promoted if not, you don't...
for me I started 02/03/2009, I had previous martial arts experience and understood stances and striking so my instructor was able to focus more on the forms and the variation of the techniques compared to what I had done. I received my first degree black sash on 11/10/2011 so just shy of 3 years. I've yet to rank up again, as I'm not ready yet. I've also been working on there external system and I'm still only a 2 degree brown belt, so for the external which we don't focus as much on it's going to take me much longer. Which i'm fine with, they'll let me know when they feel I'm ready and in the mean time they keep teaching, I keep learning
I've seen schools that you get your belt based on time and money, you will be promoted if you show up and try. I've seen these schools to promoted even if our not ready. I've not been fond of these "program dojos". Granted in some cases if they follow the program they will be ready but I've seen some piss pour black belts come out of programs like this.
I also think style makes a difference and how many ranks there are. Some schools I've seen do the tip system where you stay the same rank but you change the number of tips or strips on your belt, this way you still see progress but your ranking at a different pace sometimes.
Lastly I think it's the student the more they put in, I've known schools that promote when your ready.
My school is like that, if your ready you get promoted if not, you don't...
for me I started 02/03/2009, I had previous martial arts experience and understood stances and striking so my instructor was able to focus more on the forms and the variation of the techniques compared to what I had done. I received my first degree black sash on 11/10/2011 so just shy of 3 years. I've yet to rank up again, as I'm not ready yet. I've also been working on there external system and I'm still only a 2 degree brown belt, so for the external which we don't focus as much on it's going to take me much longer. Which i'm fine with, they'll let me know when they feel I'm ready and in the mean time they keep teaching, I keep learning
karatemom3
Yellow Belt
It took me 4 years to get my Cho Dan in Soo Bahk Do and 4 more for 2nd degree. Then I went to TKD and got a black belt in 6 months.
ilhe4e12345
Green Belt
this has always been a topic that bounces around in my head. I personally am at what most would consider a green belt level (I train 7 Star Praying Mantis KungFu) I have been training with my current Sifu for almost 4 years now (So I average about a belt a year but I only get to train once a week and this pasrt year I have been unable to train for about 4 months due to a pretty serious injury that im recovering from) but i always personally believed that its up to the student to push themselves as hard as they want. I have seen a few schools that give out black belts like they are candy on halloween, an example is a local karate school down the street from where I live has given out black belts to children as young as 12 (not to say they are taleneted or dont know the style but it just seems young for me) and other schools I have seen give out one black belt in 2 years....
A friend of mine who I train with on and off when hes back in the area has been training in TKD for 10+ years. I met him back when I was a bouncer at a local strip club and since then we have trained together. He told me that he earned his Black Belt in 2 years but trained every single day and went to class 4-6 times a week including private lessons and traveled all over the place to see other teachers as well. He is someone who earned his black belt in such a short time and has proven it time and time again to me both in our training together and back at the club during hand to hand situations involving routy drunks.
It just comes down to how you train....I personally would lvoe to train as hard as he did (my friend Josh) but due to work and my current injury I cannot....but i tell you this, Josh has told me on many occations that my "green belt level" of knowledge is very good and that I can sometimes give him a run for his money (accept for kicking...when it coems to that, HE DESTROYS ME LOL)
A friend of mine who I train with on and off when hes back in the area has been training in TKD for 10+ years. I met him back when I was a bouncer at a local strip club and since then we have trained together. He told me that he earned his Black Belt in 2 years but trained every single day and went to class 4-6 times a week including private lessons and traveled all over the place to see other teachers as well. He is someone who earned his black belt in such a short time and has proven it time and time again to me both in our training together and back at the club during hand to hand situations involving routy drunks.
It just comes down to how you train....I personally would lvoe to train as hard as he did (my friend Josh) but due to work and my current injury I cannot
....but i tell you this, Josh has told me on many occations that my "green belt level" of knowledge is very good and that I can sometimes give him a run for his money (accept for kicking...when it coems to that, HE DESTROYS ME LOL)MPC1257
Yellow Belt
I have been studying Kun Tao Dumpag for the last 6 1/2 years. The belt progression is, white (only belt that is given at a certain level of proficiency without requiring a test), yellow, purple, brown and black. My instructor observes everyone and decides when we are ready to test, he then gives us a future test date.
I earned my yellow belt in August 31, 2008 and I just earned my purple belt on October 7, 2012. I expect that I won't be ready for brown for at least 2 or more years, and another couple\few years before testing for black. There really isn't an emphasis on getting belts here, but after spending over an hour of hell to earn the belt, you do feel a sense of accomplishment and are proud to wear it, regardless of color.
I earned my yellow belt in August 31, 2008 and I just earned my purple belt on October 7, 2012. I expect that I won't be ready for brown for at least 2 or more years, and another couple\few years before testing for black. There really isn't an emphasis on getting belts here, but after spending over an hour of hell to earn the belt, you do feel a sense of accomplishment and are proud to wear it, regardless of color.
Giant Marshmallow
White Belt
I think it depends on a lt of factors at my school. When we tests [for the lower belts], there is a panel of judges and they award you the belt based on how well you perform. I have had one session of classes (12 weeks) and set myself a goal of getting brown belt before I turn 50 (2.25 years from when I started) and my instructor is not sure I can make it. I think I can* Anyway, black belt is about 2-3 years after brown belt (there is brown, then brown with the black stripe) so I will say at a bare minimum of 4 years, but likely closer to 6.
*my first test I was expecting a yellow belt (skipping the orange) but I got Red, a real shock to me, but it means I am certainly on track for my goal
Anyway, black belt is about 2-3 years after brown belt (there is brown, then brown with the black stripe) so I will say at a bare minimum of 4 years, but likely closer to 6.*my first test I was expecting a yellow belt (skipping the orange) but I got Red, a real shock to me, but it means I am certainly on track for my goal
We don't really have the choice when we're affiliated to the french federation of taekwondo : they require you to be 1st geup but also to have at least 4 years of practice of taekwondo (in a club affiliated to the fed)
Only geup can be given by your master, no one can discuss his decision and you need to be 1st geup to pass your 1st dan exam ... so sabeum decides when you're ready, but not before those 4 years, anyways.
We see sometimes people with a 1st (or more) dan not given by the federation ... it's generally sign of mcDojang. I don't get why people are doing this if it's not commercial trick (like giving away black belt to students to keep them in your school, of showing off your school have many black belts so it's good one), and I always felt sorry for them when they're coming to federation competitions : how would you feel publicly removing your black belt for a red one ?
Only geup can be given by your master, no one can discuss his decision and you need to be 1st geup to pass your 1st dan exam ... so sabeum decides when you're ready, but not before those 4 years, anyways.
We see sometimes people with a 1st (or more) dan not given by the federation ... it's generally sign of mcDojang. I don't get why people are doing this if it's not commercial trick (like giving away black belt to students to keep them in your school, of showing off your school have many black belts so it's good one), and I always felt sorry for them when they're coming to federation competitions : how would you feel publicly removing your black belt for a red one ?
To be perfectly honest, I respect you 2nd degree in Soo Bahk Do and admire you for your dedication. However, I do not respect your black belt in TKD and highly doubt it is a legitimate black belt.
As for my school, don't know anyone who has gotten it in less then 3 years, and only 3 people who have gotten it in less than 5, all of whom were both incredibly talented and determined until black belt (unfortunately, 2 of them ended up leaving the dojo within a year or two of them getting the belt. The other one became a sensei, but ended up moving, is now practicing BJJ somewhere upstate).
You might want to reconsider your position, then.
Given the similarity between Soo Bahk Do and TKD (especially if the TKD is from the Moo Duk Kwan line), it should be no suprise that a person with Dan rank in one could earn Dan rank in the other in a short time.
The differences between the two are so small that even someone familiar with both would be hard pressed to tell which they were watching, especially given that there are TKD schools that use the same pyung-ahn forms taught by most Soo Bahk Do schools.
Now, if she had gone from a Soo Bahk Do Eedan to a Kenjutsu Shodan in 6 months (or some other equally unrelated style), your skepticism (and lack of respect for her accomplishments) might be more justified.
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
I share the opinion of the late SGM Ed Parker, founder of American Kenpo. Attaining a black belt should be no different than attaining a BS from a University or College... which takes about 4 years on average. The degree of study and application necessary to achieve that rank and be considered an "expert" is no different than any other discipline.
Of course, that doesn't account for those special people who pour their heart and soul into their training daily. After all, you usually get out of something what you put into it; therefore, there would be cases where one might achieve that rank quicker than the average Joe.
Of course, that doesn't account for those special people who pour their heart and soul into their training daily. After all, you usually get out of something what you put into it; therefore, there would be cases where one might achieve that rank quicker than the average Joe.
I had not known during my first post that the two styles were so similar. I'm sorry if the post seemed rude, but I had assumed that they were two schools with a bigger separation in style since she stated it as if she went to a different MA, then got her bb super quickly.
karatemom3
Yellow Belt
Dirty Dog, thank you for defending me. Kempodisciple, I don't think you were rude. It is a common opinion. To get my black belt in TKD I had to do endurance and learn 10 forms. They all were basically a series of basic moves; with many of the forms done in the same pattern. You can You Tube Songahm TKD forms if you want to see what I mean. They did not embrace the "advanced" breathing techniques and use of hip that was required as a E Dan in Soo bahk Do. The curriculum did not include regular self defense and we rarely did one step drills so we did forms every class; and sparring. Under those circumstances I memorized the forms. It was a legitimate black belt within the Songahm TKD community. The art did not impress me but the people did. I was shown respect by every one I came in contact with. I probably would not have continued in martial arts if I had not found this school.
It would depend on the school and the student. Some schools are harder than others and in those places it would take the same student longer to get a black belt than at an easier school. Also, as I said, it would depend on the student, how hard the student works, and if the student cares about rank advancement. Some students don't care about rank, they're in the martial arts for other stuff, so for them black belt would be a non issue.
I've heard of people getting a black belt in Bjj in six years.
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Alberto "Tough Gringo "Crane, originally of Santa Fe, NM, earned his faixa preta from Vinicius "Draculino" Margahales in a little less than 6 years.
B.J. Penn got his in 4 years, but he was ridiculously talented and was training long hours every day.
The typical norm in BJJ is 10-15 years. I've been training 12 years and I'm a 2-stripe brown belt. I've got at least a couple more years to go before making black, so I'll probably end up at the upper end of the normal range.
On the other hand, I've got black belts in a couple of other arts that only took me 3-4 years each to attain. It really varies all over the place from art to art and individual to individual.
Does it actually take that long to learn the system? Or are there time and age retirements between levels?
Other than a common requirement to be 16 before getting a blue belt*, there are no set rules about age or time in grade up to black belt. The biggest requirement is for demonstrated skill on the mat. Some instructors have official tests including demonstration of the curriculum, others just base promotion on years of observing the student, but all require consistent proven ability in live grappling. It takes a lot of hours to get the skill level expected of a BJJ black belt. After black belt, subsequent promotions are mostly based on time in grade spent teaching.
*(not necessarily a hard and fast rule. We have a very hard working and talented young man in out gym who got his blue belt at age 15. At that point he had been training and grappling with the adults for a couple of years and doing very well.)
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