How fast is too fast?

[kachi]

I must thank everyone for their responses. It's something that's been bothering me for a while and it's good to put my mind a ease, it's also good to see what other people think about the issue.

I agree with bignick, but I have a question.

Does everyone in your system get a black belt in 3 years?

No, 3 years is a minimum. Those that wouldn't be able to, skilled enough or committed enough to go for their next belt will not be allowed to go. But the majority of students end up going through to the grading and I've only ever seen about 2 - 3 fail in my few years of MA training.

One thing we should remember is that BB is truly a mark of having down the basics. Yeah, you may be better than joe-blow street guy, but you are truly a novice. No matter what anyone thinks.

I understand this, but there is a higher level of skill, discipline and dedication that is expected once you reach BB and I was confused as to whether 3 years was sufficient enough time to aquire those attributes.

some schools do it your way and have time periods,that is why there are so young of black belts out there. my school system you are tesed when you are ''ready''. so you could be a yellow belt for 4 years or a brown for 6 years.

Sensei Coleman
'89

I'll just point out that we don't run strictly off time periods, but that's what the majority receive their belt in and we have age restrictions in regards to rank. Juniors can't get BB obviously and I think 16 is the minimum age to receive a BB.

Also i'll just add that i'll be going for my Shodan-Ho this Saturday, which is what spurred me to start this thread.

 

[Xue Sheng]

No, 3 years is a minimum. Those that wouldn't be able to, skilled enough or committed enough to go for their next belt will not be allowed to go. But the majority of students end up going through to the grading and I've only ever seen about 2 - 3 fail in my few years of MA training.

Thank you or responding.

Then I do not think 3 years is not to fast.

The reason for my question is that there was a school in my area that was guaranteeing black belts to all that signed a year contract and that is just wrong.

But if it is a minimum of 3 and longer for those that need it then it sounds ok.

 

[Drac]

The reason for my question is that there was a school in my area that was guaranteeing black belts to all that signed a year contract and that is just wrong.

Yes, that IS wrong....

 

[exile]

Yes, that IS wrong....

It sure is---but it seems to be what makes the world go 'round in a lot of the MAs. I don't really get the thinking behind it... how can anyone feel good knowing that their `black belt' is something anyone with enough $$ could get? How being admired by people who don't know any better mean that much to anyone?

It just seems so... pointless!

 

[Drac]

It sure is---but it seems to be what makes the world go 'round in a lot of the MAs. I don't really get the thinking behind it... how can anyone feel good knowing that their `black belt' is something anyone with enough $$ could get? How being admired by people who don't know any better mean that much to anyone?

It just seems so... pointless!

You don't even have to be bothered with going to the dojo or dojang to train at all..Log onto e-bay...You can buy almost any rank you want COMPLETE with the wood frame so you can display it..

 

[exile]

You don't even have to be bothered with going to the dojo or dojang to train at all..Log onto e-bay...You can buy almost any rank you want COMPLETE with the wood frame so you can display it..

This reminds me to a T of those places which will sell you a college or graduate degree (also with the frame thrown in, lol)---every so often a few of these manage to get through our spam filters---again, I don't understand the thinking---does anyone believe that any potenetial employer is really going to be fooled by something like that? And with these fake MA credentials, how on earth is a McDojo BB going to help you when your luck runs out and you're facing a nasty piece of work carrying a baseball bat?

(For that particular situation, I make it a rule to carry a few helpful star-shaped metal friends, just to even out the terrain so to speak. But I can't imagine how anyone could think that having a certificate saying you have martial skills that you don't really possess will help you even a little when things start to go sideways.)

 

[JasonASmith]

Hell, I'm looking at AT LEAST 6 years to get to B.B....
NOONE under 18 gets a B.B....
You know, it's starting to sink in through my granite-plated skull that the rank doesn't matter...Being able to use what you've learned to its greatest efficiency does...I find myself every day drifting away from the quest for the B.B., and drifting towards the quest for a stronger soul and a better life, and it just continues to validate the quality of what I am learning...I don't just want be a B.B.; I want to be THE BEST B.B. THAT I CAN BE...Thankfully, I have a Sensei who demands perfection in ALL aspects of the art.

 

[Seeking Zen]

Well, I can't speak for the norm, as I have no idea what the averages are. But at my dojo the minimum is 4-4 1/2 years up to 8. Brown belts must train for 18 months before entering a 6 month BB preparation period in which they must attend 5 days a week and lose some of there seniority, be the brunt of all multiple partner sparring drills, self-defense training and must do dojo chores ie...the washrooms! They must prepare a paper on Goju history and what karate means to them as well as a resume of experience. Further, other factors such as dojo participation (assisting in class) seminars, tournament assistance etc...can have an influence. Our Sensei is hands on and teaches 95% of all classes with assistants. ( i don't know how but he knows where everyone is at and what is next for them at all times!!!) Oh...I'm not sure about others but we have two BB gradings as well.

 

[Robert Lee]

Depending on styles 3 to 5 years is average. But instructors must see when you are ready. That being some will get graded earlyer then others. Time and training shows when you are getting ready. It used to take about 15 years to grade up to 5th dan. Now days you see people doing it in 5 to 7 years kind of buying the rank or instructors that basicly give away that rank. As its been said Shodan means you are now a good brown belt ready to learn even more now. On to the softer more often effecetive tools of the training now.

 

[searcher]

It used to take about 15 years to grade up to 5th dan. Now days you see people doing it in 5 to 7 years kind of buying the rank or instructors that basicly give away that rank.

Yeah, I should have waited to start training until later on and I would be the same rank I am now. It is very dis-heartening to see under-skilled karate-ka wearing some high rank. This is why we cannot compromise our standards for the sake of ___________(fill in with whatever).

 

[twendkata71]

Yeah, the young black belt thing bothers me a bit. I really don't like the idea of promoting anyone to shodan under the age of at least 16. This is one of the things that has made the image of black belt lessen over the years. Children do not generally have the maturity to hold black belt. It took me 5 years to make shodan. I took my time and wanted to earn the belt.
The whole expensive black belt program thing is a discusting Mcdojo thing. Personally if I am promoting someone to shodan I don't charge for the test. They have to go through several hours of testing and when they are done they have earned it and if they do not pass then they go back and train for several more months and try again. The way I look at it is if they are out there with a black belt on that I gave them then I want them to represent me the best they can. If they look bad, I look bad.

 

[Cirdan]

Also i'll just add that i'll be going for my Shodan-Ho this Saturday, which is what spurred me to start this thread.

Good luck! :asian:

 

[Xue Sheng]

Yes, that IS wrong....

It sure is---but it seems to be what makes the world go 'round in a lot of the MAs. I don't really get the thinking behind it... how can anyone feel good knowing that their `black belt' is something anyone with enough $$ could get? How being admired by people who don't know any better mean that much to anyone?

It just seems so... pointless!

Although I do not know if this school still makes such claims, sadly it is one of the largest independent MA school/chains in my area. The main school is the largest free standing MA school I have ever seen and it has at least 3 satellite schools.

 

[kosho]

I feel that 4 - 6 years is a good round time frame. BUT there is always that 1 person who just takes off with the Martial Art. Time in class, maybe privates ETC. time at home also is a factor. so 3 years could truly be enought time. there truly are many keys that need to be looked at. ALSO that person who is a black belt under that person is a reflection of that person. so if he is a production of that teacher. that teachers name is on
the line. if that makes sence.
my 2 cents
steve

 

[IWishToLearn]

Hm. Totally dependant on the person's qualifications. For a total newbie - I've had my top students progressing through their ranks at about three months per rank. The average is five to six months per rank.

 

[Goldendawn8]

I don't think you can put an amount of time needed to progress to earning your black belt. My master in China just gave me the title of Sifu without any belts at all.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I don't think you can put an amount of time needed to progress to earning your black belt. My master in China just gave me the title of Sifu without any belts at all.

A question: How long did you train with your sifu?

 

[Brandon Fisher]

I have a student that could poteninally do it in 3 years. This is training 6 days a week 3 - 4 hours a day.

 

[WyldFya]

Personally, I feel that basing this measurment in years is wrong. It took me 7 years to get my shodan in Wado-ryu. It isn't common for 5 years if training with one of the major teachers, generally it is 7-10 years to achieve shodan. Several schools advance too fast IMO, such as Kyokushin where one student has gotten a shodan in only 1.5 years. Way to fast IMO. However, he trained at least 30 hours a week, and many of those hours were spent with one or two blackbelts and no other students. I trained 25-35 hours a week from blue belt on. Personally amount of time put in is a HUGE factor, but more important that time put it, or even technique, is experience. Some students of mine have amazing technique, but that isn't enough to qualify them for a shodan. Discipline and respect are needed before any student of mine is allowed to even think of testing for a shodan. Without this, if ever a student fails, he will place blame somewhere else, and continue in the same path. With discipline and respect the student will realize they were flawed, and work harder to fix their flaws. In this way they will grow themselves, and no longer be in need of a teacher in order to train and learn. A teacher will still help them learn, but is not needed any longer. At this point I feel that the student is now ready to become a teacher.

 

[exile]

Personally, I feel that basing this measurment in years is wrong. It took me 7 years to get my shodan in Wado-ryu. It isn't common for 5 years if training with one of the major teachers, generally it is 7-10 years to achieve shodan. Several schools advance too fast IMO, such as Kyokushin where one student has gotten a shodan in only 1.5 years. Way to fast IMO. However, he trained at least 30 hours a week, and many of those hours were spent with one or two blackbelts and no other students. I trained 25-35 hours a week from blue belt on. Personally amount of time put in is a HUGE factor, but more important that time put it, or even technique, is experience. Some students of mine have amazing technique, but that isn't enough to qualify them for a shodan. Discipline and respect are needed before any student of mine is allowed to even think of testing for a shodan. Without this, if ever a student fails, he will place blame somewhere else, and continue in the same path. With discipline and respect the student will realize they were flawed, and work harder to fix their flaws. In this way they will grow themselves, and no longer be in need of a teacher in order to train and learn. A teacher will still help them learn, but is not needed any longer. At this point I feel that the student is now ready to become a teacher.

Good perspective, WyldFya...