How do we know who the best Hapkidoin are?

[shesulsa]

A handful of years ago, the Hapkido section here essentially imploded with arguments over what real Hapkido is, its origins and who trained with what master.

Frankly, the question over who is the best hapkido master in the world for you can only be answered by you. My advice for a high-ranking martial artist with multiple dojangs at his fingertips and no restrictions to travel and investigate would be exactly the same for the mignon who has not a penny but needs self-defense training: go out and find what speaks to you.

Perhaps if you could narrow it down to a lineage you prefer, then you can follow the chain of command on upward and go from there.

I invite you to peruse the much, much older threads in this forum to research hapkido origins and the controversies perceived as a result.

Peace.

 

[jks9199]

It seems as if you almost have either someone or some criteria in mind. So I'll ask you: how do YOU know who the best in hapkido are?

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[Dirty Dog]

If my question is to confusing, it might be best to skip it.

I do think it is a very simple question: How do we know who the best Hapkidoin are? You could answer my question with any of those what if's you listed, go for it.

Seems to me that you already have an answer in your head, and you're looking for someone to parrot it back to you. Either that, or you're just trying to stir up some arguement.

So tell us, how do YOU know who the best hapkidoin are?

For me, there is no answer. "Best" is ambiguous. Best in what way? Hapkido is a multifaceted art and I doubt that any single person can be considered "best" in all aspects.

 

[mastercole]

A handful of years ago, the Hapkido section here essentially imploded with arguments over what real Hapkido is, its origins and who trained with what master.

I see, but that was not my question.

Frankly, the question over who is the best hapkido master in the world for you can only be answered by you.

I think it is best answered by those in the Hapkido world. Rather than just make a summary decision based on little knowledge, I figure it best to ask some advise. Most of the advise will likely be useless, but sometimes one make come across advise that is very helpful.

My advice for a high-ranking martial artist with multiple dojangs at his fingertips and no restrictions to travel and investigate would be exactly the same for the mignon who has not a penny but needs self-defense training: go out and find what speaks to you.

I don't need self defense training, if I did, Hapkido and other martial arts would be the last think on my mind. What I wanted was folks advise on "How do we know who the best Hapkidoin are?" But I can see here that you are telling me to just find what speaks to me, so there I have it, your advise, thanks.

Perhaps if you could narrow it down to a lineage you prefer, then you can follow the chain of command on upward and go from there.

Getting as close to the source of Hapkido as possible.

I invite you to peruse the much, much older threads in this forum to research hapkido origins and the controversies perceived as a result.

Peace.

Good advise.

 

[mastercole]

It seems as if you almost have either someone or some criteria in mind.

I have no someone in mind. If you are a Hapkido practitioner, I'd like to know your opinion in regard to my Hapkido question. You train in Hapkido? My criteria is this: Ask experienced Hapkidoin "How do we know who the best Hapkidoin are?", see what kind of information pops up. Do you have an opinion on this subject?

So I'll ask you: how do YOU know who the best in hapkido are?

My question was not who is the best in Hapkido are. This is what I asked: "How - do - we - know - who - the - best - Hapkidoin - are?"

In other words, is there some kind of way to know, like a criteria or method or something I am not thinking of that would identify who the best Hapkidoin are.

So far I am getting comments that it's just whatever I think. Odd advise for a martial art.

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[mastercole]

Seems to me that you already have an answer in your head, and you're looking for someone to parrot it back to you. Either that, or you're just trying to stir up some arguement.

Typical argumentative non-answer from you.

So tell us, how do YOU know who the best hapkidoin are?

I don't, that is why I ask people in the Hapkido world who they know. Are you a Hapkidoin, or is that something else you can not answer?

For me, there is no answer. "Best" is ambiguous. Best in what way? Hapkido is a multifaceted art and I doubt that any single person can be considered "best" in all aspects.

I never asked who the best single Hapkido person was.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I think we can do without the attitudes. If anyone has to ask 'what attitudes', check yours. Savvy? Good.



"Best" is subjective.
Define "Best". Best fighter, best technician, best teacher, best competitor, best looking, and so forth.

Best fighter/competitor is simple. Means he wins fights. Also might mean he takes little damage while fighting.

Best technician to me means he has the techniques down cold, always demonstrates them with a sharp and consistent look.

Best teacher might mean he has a lot of students, but that might mean he's the best at marketing, not necessarily teaching.
It also might mean he's produced a lot of black belts. But that might also mean he promotes anyone who's check clears.
To me, it means he can clearly explain and demonstrate techniques, guide new students, has patience, represents all of the things I believe are the virtues of importance, and has produced quality senior students who demonstrate a personal and technical level of advancement.

Best looking is simple. That's me.

Define what you mean by 'the best'. That will give you the benchmarks to weigh others by.

Define "Hapkido". Define 'Hapkidoin"
The 'best' are those people who fit that definition closest.
To you.

Others definitions may vary, resulting in different 'best'.

I submit, there is no true 'best', just 'best to me'.
:asian:

 

[mastercole]

"Best" is subjective.
Define "Best". Best fighter, best technician, best teacher, best competitor, best looking, and so forth.

Best fighter/competitor is simple. Means he wins fights. Also might mean he takes little damage while fighting.

Best technician to me means he has the techniques down cold, always demonstrates them with a sharp and consistent look.

Best teacher might mean he has a lot of students, but that might mean he's the best at marketing, not necessarily teaching.
It also might mean he's produced a lot of black belts. But that might also mean he promotes anyone who's check clears.
To me, it means he can clearly explain and demonstrate techniques, guide new students, has patience, represents all of the things I believe are the virtues of importance, and has produced quality senior students who demonstrate a personal and technical level of advancement.

Best looking is simple. That's me.

Define what you mean by 'the best'. That will give you the benchmarks to weigh others by.

Define "Hapkido". Define 'Hapkidoin"
The 'best' are those people who fit that definition closest.
To you.

Others definitions may vary, resulting in different 'best'.

I submit, there is no true 'best', just 'best to me'.
:asian:

Thats what I would like to read, how Hapkidoin determine who the best in their field of practice is, be it marketing, fighting, or back flips. I don't want to define it for them, I want them to tell me. And I am sure everyone will have a different way of going about determining who the best Hapkidoin are.

Definition of Hapkido: Korean martial arts called Hapkido.
Definition of Hapkidoin: simply; Hapkido People

 

[zDom]

Thats what I would like to read, how Hapkidoin determine who the best in their field of practice is, be it marketing, fighting, or back flips. I don't want to define it for them, I want them to tell me. And I am sure everyone will have a different way of going about determining who the best Hapkidoin are.

Videos can give a general idea, but really for me, I'd have to spend some time with them on the mat, feel their technique, to really form an opinion of who is "better."

And, as pointed out above, it would probably be specific to certain parts, as in "Master A is an great thrower" or "Master B has some incredible kicks."

Marketing and self promotion mean nothing me to. Rank I always take with a grain of salt.

 

[oftheherd1]

I am not expert on Hapkido. Pick the lowest level of Hapkido practitioner and there I am. I don't teach Hapkido either.

I learned some similar stuff before I began Taekwondo, under the jujitsu name in Karate, and Hoshinsul name later in Oh Do Kwan/Moo Duk Kwan/Tang Soo Do. My Sabumnim, GM CHONG Chun Sup added it in his Taekwondo classes from what he had learned in Pyongtaek, Korea. I began training with him after he had been in the USA for only 6 weeks, he did not speak English at the time, I never asked any of these questions because I studied it very little and had very little interest in Hapkido, but years later I played around with it "a little bit" with some of my own students, and through Taekwondo and my many trips to Korea, I have encountered Hapkido from time to time in Mexico, USA, Canada, Europe and even at the "Hanminjok Korea Kido Hae" - if I got the name right - Headquarters in Seoul. I have also attended some day long, and even week long training events.

I think that firmly plants me in the novice category, that is why I ask these questions. But I might decide to take up the study of Hapkido, and if I do, I will find the best possible source and go study with them, or, bring them to the USA where they can stay at my home and study with them everyday, and invite my students to do the same. I've been known to do that kind of thing before.

First, thanks for clarfying. I have been holding off on answering, watching where the thread went. Frankly, I also rather thought you were trying to set up some kind of controversy.

Second, I am no expert on Hapkido. Never have been. However, I have studied and taught Hapkido. I expect you know that there are many different Hapkido organizations, and kwans. To my knowledge, most Hapkido kwans do not have competitions, although some do. When we sparred in the Hapkido I studied, it was usually after a local testing. We then sparred very much like in the old TKD. That is, it was mostly kicks and punches, contact only in blocking.

To do otherwise in Hapkido is dangerous. I know there are some styles that spar. There have to be rules to do that. We are taught techniques that very often do damage to our opponent. Therefore there would have to be strick rules so that opponents would not maim or kill each other. I remember seeing a demonstration of different Korea MA in 1975 or 1976.

One was Hapkido. I wasn't a student then, and honestly, suspected it might be all a put on. When they demonstrated techniques, they were pretty often causing great pain or knocking the wind out ot their opponents, or stunning them to the point near or at unconscienciousness. Those were very adept practioners.

All that to say, how indeed do you intend to pick the best? Since there isn't a consensus within Hapkido (that I know of) as to a proper method of picking some one greatest student or teacher, I think anyone from the outside trying to do so has a real challenge.

My best advice would be to question as many Grand Masters as you can, in Korea and out of Korea, and solicit their opinions as to who the best teacher was, since you would certainly want a teacher, rather than simply a practioner who was successful at being recognized as a good practioner. You could probably do well picking a person that got the most recommendations from those you asked, especially if they are not only identifying people from their own kwan or organization.

Good luck in your quest sir.

 

[jks9199]

I have no someone in mind. If you are a Hapkido practitioner, I'd like to know your opinion in regard to my Hapkido question. You train in Hapkido? My criteria is this: Ask experienced Hapkidoin "How do we know who the best Hapkidoin are?", see what kind of information pops up. Do you have an opinion on this subject?



My question was not who is the best in Hapkido are. This is what I asked: "How - do - we - know - who - the - best - Hapkidoin - are?"

In other words, is there some kind of way to know, like a criteria or method or something I am not thinking of that would identify who the best Hapkidoin are.

So far I am getting comments that it's just whatever I think. Odd advise for a martial art.

Perhaps, or perhaps it's an odd question for such an experienced martial artist to ask. I've never trained in Hapkido; in fact, I've never claimed to have done so, and I've never made a secret of that. My style is in my profile. But I do know a few folks in Combat Hapkido, a couple in other forms of Hapkido. Not enough for me to say who's the best in such a diverse art. In fact, I think it would be almost impossible to get a good answer. Some might say Grand Master Pelligrino of Combat Hapkido is the best. Others would apparently say Grand Master Ji is the best.

It's kind of like asking who the "best" in karate or kempo or even Bando is... There is really no one answer. I can name some very good, very skilled people in a couple of karate styles; some known, some more unknown. Kempo? even more muddled, huh? Bando? Smaller group, but there's at least 2 and a half major organizations, not counting folks that have spun off on their own. That's without even looking at our sub-systems there...

So, again, what are the criteria people should use? What's the goal you're after in asking this? If you're looking for best performers, you might be looking for the most dynamic people, who can do the widest range of techniques, and make the hardest stuff look easy. If you're after the best teachers -- then you really need to look at their students, and decide what elements show that they've learned best. (It's kind of like the old saw about which barber to go to in a town with only two barbers; you do to the guy with the bad haircut.) If you're after the guys who can use it most effectively in the real world, then you need to go and look for people who have actually used it for real. The groups may well, in fact, almost certainly are not going to be identical. There may not even be much intersection...

 

[puunui]

So, you want to train with the best hapkido instructor in the world. OK; are you willing to relocate to wherever that person may be? Drop everything, leaving behind family, friends, and business to go there and train?

You just described me because that is exactly what I did.

 

[mastercole]

Perhaps, or perhaps it's an odd question for such an experienced martial artist to ask.

But not an odd question for such a Hapkido novice as myself to ask. What is so odd about the question I asked, novice, or not?

I've never trained in Hapkido; in fact, I've never claimed to have done so, and I've never made a secret of that. My style is in my profile.

I see, well thank you for trying to help out. So far you have offered more information than some who have actual Hapkido experience.

But I do know a few folks in Combat Hapkido, a couple in other forms of Hapkido. Not enough for me to say who's the best in such a diverse art. In fact, I think it would be almost impossible to get a good answer. Some might say Grand Master Pelligrino of Combat Hapkido is the best. Others would apparently say Grand Master Ji is the best.

I never asked who the best was.

It's kind of like asking who the "best" in karate or kempo or even Bando is... There is really no one answer. I can name some very good, very skilled people in a couple of karate styles; some known, some more unknown. Kempo? even more muddled, huh? Bando? Smaller group, but there's at least 2 and a half major organizations, not counting folks that have spun off on their own. That's without even looking at our sub-systems there...

Again, not the question I asked. But, actually we can know who the best are in Karate and possible Bando. Kenpo probably in the same boat with Hapkido.

So, again, what are the criteria people should use?

I want people in the Hapkido world to suggest this. I, as a novice don't know enough about the Hapkido world to choice a criteria. Hence my original question "How do we know who the best Hapkidoin are?"

Note the question starts off with "How", I'm not asking who

What's the goal you're after in asking this?

To find out >>>How<<< do we know who the best Hapkidoin are.

If you're looking for best performers, you might be looking for the most dynamic people, who can do the widest range of techniques, and make the hardest stuff look easy. If you're after the best teachers -- then you really need to look at their students, and decide what elements show that they've learned best. (It's kind of like the old saw about which barber to go to in a town with only two barbers; you do to the guy with the bad haircut.) If you're after the guys who can use it most effectively in the real world, then you need to go and look for people who have actually used it for real. The groups may well, in fact, almost certainly are not going to be identical. There may not even be much intersection...

I'm not looking for any of that in specific. I am looking for Hapkidoin (Hapkido People) advise on what I should be looking for.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

So, you're not looking for the name of a particular person, but the attributes to look for that would allow you to better decide for yourself who is good and who is not.

??

 

[puunui]

So, you're not looking for the name of a particular person, but the attributes to look for that would allow you to better decide for yourself who is good and who is not. ??

That was my understanding from the original post:

How do we know who the best Hapkidoin are?

Is there some kind of test of skills, in a non-prearranged format against other opposing Hapkidoin?

Thank you

 

[mastercole]

So, you're not looking for the name of a particular person, but the attributes to look for that would allow you to better decide for yourself who is good and who is not.

??

Yes, but for Hapkidoin (Hapkido People) in general. No one specific person. What attributes do Hapkidoin consider essential to determining who the best Hapkido people are (again, not one person)

 

[MJS]

And yet another thread that was started under the disguise of going after a particular member. IIRC, that is against forum rules. Let me be blunt. We have enough open reported tickets right now, to last 2 weeks. I highly suggest that certain people stop with the rule violations, before threads get locked and members get banned. I see alot of off topic posts in this thread, that I'm going to be removing. If you have an ax to grind, do not do it here.

Consider this the 1 and only warning!

MJS
MT Asst. Admin

 

[mastercole]

And yet another thread that was started under the disguise of going after a particular member. IIRC, that is against forum rules. Let me be blunt. We have enough open reported tickets right now, to last 2 weeks. I highly suggest that certain people stop with the rule violations, before threads get locked and members get banned. I see alot of off topic posts in this thread, that I'm going to be removing. If you have an ax to grind, do not do it here.

Consider this the 1 and only warning!

MJS
MT Asst. Admin

I respect what you are saying, but I ask you to reconsider by reading all the post. I started the thread and it is sincere, and the discussions have been sincere. I have not went after any member. Please read carefully through the thread.

Thank you

 

[shesulsa]

Effective techniques, ability to adapt them to size and strength differentials as well as injury/handicap. Full grasp of nuances that can make or break locks & techniques, ability to obscure telegraphing and to determine another person's learning style/curve and effectively communicate and teach a broad number of people - including masters of other styles.

How's that?

 

[mastercole]

Effective techniques, ability to adapt them to size and strength differentials as well as injury/handicap. Full grasp of nuances that can make or break locks & techniques, ability to obscure telegraphing and to determine another person's learning style/curve and effectively communicate and teach a broad number of people - including masters of other styles.

How's that?

Very good. You are the first to say "effective techniques". Now that you mention it, that would have to be proved to me in order for me to have confidence in what the instructor was teaching. Example, when I first met my Sabumnim and several elite Taekwondo athletes, I was permitted to fight them full contact, they did not hesitate to say OK. I could do anything I wanted, nothing was prearranged and it was an enlightening experience.

I also like your comments that they should basically be adaptable to different learning needs.