How do we desensitize our students to contact?

[Twin Fist]

just2, I have always done it that way, i found out later that I was, without my knowledge doing things the Kaju way....

I tell my students, you WILL get hit. Sure, we would like to avoid it, but if you cant, your ability to take a hit and not freeze can save your life..

 

[searcher]

TF, I have come to see the light in your way of training. I am so tired of all the whiney-butts that I am going to have to get harder on my students. If they don't like it, there is a dance school in the next town over.

Thank goodness we can see what needs to be done in order to salvage a few of our students.

 

[teekin]

hit them

hit them again

keep on hitting them

after a few months, they stop crying about getting hit

For many people who are Most in need on what MA can offer this approach will drive them out the door and reinforce the stereotype of the MA black belt as a testosterone soaked *******. It will do injury to the student, the instructor and MA as a whole.
Now normally I agree with you so I am quite sure I am seeing an abbreviated thought here. Am I right or do you really think this subject that simple?
lori

 

[just2kicku]

just2, I have always done it that way, i found out later that I was, without my knowledge doing things the Kaju way....

I tell my students, you WILL get hit. Sure, we would like to avoid it, but if you cant, your ability to take a hit and not freeze can save your life..

I grew up training that way. My Uncle would use me and my cousin as punching bags ALOT. But I was never afraid of taking a hit after a couple years of that. He and my dad are under Sijo and thats the ONLY way you used to train.

 

[just2kicku]

[/b] For many people who are Most in need on what MA can offer this approach will drive them out the door and reinforce the stereotype of the MA black belt as a testosterone soaked *******. It will do injury to the student, the instructor and MA as a whole.
Now normally I agree with you so I am quite sure I am seeing an abbreviated thought here. Am I right or do you really think this subject that simple?
lori

I don't understand the "most in need" part. I think we practice to fight. Philosophies aside, we fight. If you are not used to getting drilled every now and then, then you don't know how you're going to react when the real thing happens.

It's not about testosterone, it's about survival. That's what we're training for. If a boxer goes into the ring and he's only done shadow boxing and cardio, then he will get smoked the first time he gets hit.

If someone is so in need of something and doesn't want to get hit then there's always tai bo or cardio kickboxing. Good workout and they don't have to get hit.

I gotta agree with TF on this one, the more you get hit, the better you'll react when you actually do get hit. Hell, we break each others cup all the time from the groin kicks we hit each other with.

 

[Twin Fist]

Grendel,
the part I left out, is that the student ends up hitting me MORE than I hit them.

2 things hold people back in a real life fight

the fear of getting hit

the fear of hitting someone

I eliminate both those fears.

I hit them so they will learn that getting hit wont kill them, as they lose thier fear, they become better able to deal with pain, and less inhibited

by hitting ME, they learn not to be afraid of hitting someone.

if you are afraid of hurting someone, you will NOT be able to defend yourself

no, I am not leaving anything out.

I hit my students, then hit them some more.

I have them hit me. a LOT. I stand right behind them when they are doing reverse punches, and if that rechambered elbow doesnt move me? they are not doing it right.

no one will leave my school wussified. Even if they came in that way.

[/b] For many people who are Most in need on what MA can offer this approach will drive them out the door and reinforce the stereotype of the MA black belt as a testosterone soaked *******. It will do injury to the student, the instructor and MA as a whole.
Now normally I agree with you so I am quite sure I am seeing an abbreviated thought here. Am I right or do you really think this subject that simple?
lori

 

[teekin]

I don't understand the "most in need" part. I think we practice to fight. Philosophies aside, we fight. If you are not used to getting drilled every now and then, then you don't know how you're going to react when the real thing happens.



Key phrase.

 

[just2kicku]

Grendel,
the part I left out, is that the student ends up hitting me MORE than I hit them.

2 things hold people back in a real life fight

the fear of getting hit

the fear of hitting someone

I eliminate both those fears.

I hit them so they will learn that getting hit wont kill them, as they lose thier fear, they become better able to deal with pain, and less inhibited

by hitting ME, they learn not to be afraid of hitting someone.

if you are afraid of hurting someone, you will NOT be able to defend yourself

no, I am not leaving anything out.

I hit my students, then hit them some more.

I have them hit me. a LOT. I stand right behind them when they are doing reverse punches, and if that rechambered elbow doesnt move me? they are not doing it right.

no one will leave my school wussified. Even if they came in that way.

Damn, I like that!!!

 

[teekin]

Grendel,
the part I left out, is that the student ends up hitting me MORE than I hit them.

2 things hold people back in a real life fight

the fear of getting hit

the fear of hitting someone

I eliminate both those fears.

I hit them so they will learn that getting hit wont kill them, as they lose their fear, they become better able to deal with pain, and less inhibited

by hitting ME, they learn not to be afraid of hitting someone.

if you are afraid of hurting someone, you will NOT be able to defend yourself

no, I am not leaving anything out.

I hit my students, then hit them some more.

I have them hit me. a LOT. I stand right behind them when they are doing reverse punches, and if that rechambered elbow doesnt move me? they are not doing it right.

no one will leave my school wussified. Even if they came in that way.

Thank you for the clarification. It makes more sense with the explanation. I don't agree with it entirely but I can see some value in it. I would hope that whom ever is instructing with this method has enough experience and compassion to know when to back it off and when to push the forward. Being "dewussified" ( or dewussification) has Nothing !!!!!! to do with teaching someone to allow/endure contact of any sort or teaching them to inflict damage on another human.
lori

 

[Sandstorm]

[/b] For many people who are Most in need on what MA can offer this approach will drive them out the door and reinforce the stereotype of the MA black belt as a testosterone soaked *******. It will do injury to the student, the instructor and MA as a whole

This is the year 2009. I think what you are refering to died out in the 1980's. (at least, here in the UK it did)

Martial arts is about contact. there is no getting away from it. One of the first things a student learns in most Martial Arts is...........


....How to punch.

I think that pretty much sums it up really.

Regards
John

 

[Nolerama]

I think a proper gym/dojo/dojang training culture needs to be cultivated. Sparring partners need to communicate while coming into heavy contact with each other, and it needs to start from the first day.

That means, if you're doing a drill where you're striking your partner, your partner gets to do the same drill, and both of you communicate on your contact levels.

I'm not saying that light contact is the way to go all the time, nor am I saying that heavy contact is a bad thing. All contact is a good thing. However, both partners need to communicate with their actions that while they are training to be effective fighters, they are not out there to kill their greatest training tool: their partner. If you break your training partner, your training suffers.

Once that's established, it gives sparring partners a Play mentality, where they're not afraid to try new technique, but good enough contact to tag them to let them know they could do better. Establishing that they shouldn't fear the concept of being hit is really key.

My first day, I got hit square in the face and looking back, I'd say 95% of that was my own ego being bruised, and 5% of damaging contact. It was enough to tilt my head, and I learned two things:

1. Keep my guard up.
2. Gee, my pain threshold is being hindered by my ego. Gotta work on that.

I didn't go home with a mouse on my eye. But it put me into the mindset that I want to explore the MAs even more. Plus, the adrenaline rush is pretty fun.

 

[just2kicku]

Grendel, the part I don't understand is the need for what? Need to learn how to fight, the need to fill a gap in life, or a need to just work out?

I'm not saying to take a newbie and drill them so they know how it feels, but there comes apoint where they've got to get hit and do some hitting themselves. I do think that by a certain level they should be able to handle getting hit hard. You can't just teach how to hit all the time without the getting hit. Otherwise, once they do get hit they'll crumple up in a ball and cry. That kinda defeats the purpose.

 

[teekin]

I will get back to you soon Just2kickU , but I have a question. Why did you take up martial arts? And what are you studying?
lori

 

[just2kicku]

I will get back to you soon Just2kickU , but I have a question. Why did you take up martial arts? And what are you studying?
lori

It was kinda chosen for me, growing up in Hawaii,everybody knew something and fighting after school was an everyday thing. My dad and uncle were Kajukenbo BB's and started training with them. They were there in the early days and always trained that way. Back then' it was if you're gonna bust somebody up, you bust em up good. whether it's in a schoolyard or on the street. But I am a Kaju practitioner.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Ok, we've discussed this in the past in parts, but how do we take adults who aren't used to any contact at all in their lives, and get them used to hugging and punching and rolling around with other adults?

One of the biggest challenges many students face, especially at the beginner level, is making physical contact with another adult, especially in a violent context. Many adults go through their daily lives without touching other people. In fact, many go out of their way to avoid any kind of physical contact what so ever, except possibly with their loved ones, and beginning students are often uncomfortable touching or being touched by another adult. I think the process of desensitization should begin in a student’s very first lesson.

Several steps are helpful in desensitizing students to contact. First and foremost is professionalism. The instructor must make sure that everyone understands that all contact is done purely for the purpose of training. The best way to convey this message is for the instructor to simply be professional in his dealings with the students. Even when in compromising positions which could be misconstrued, even when working with children, if the instructor is focused and professional and conveying honest useful information, everyone focuses on that and pays attention.

Secondly using focus shields with students is a good way to help to get them used to feeling incoming force without frightening them unduly. Using the focus shield allows the student to feel differing degrees of force through an intermediary. This allows the student to adjust to force, and practice resisting the force, and see another student throwing blows at them, without actually hitting them, yet.

Thirdly techniques should be practiced on the body with increasing degrees of force. The students are taught to practice their techniques at touch and light contact, and contact is increased over time as the students move into more advanced classes. Beginner students are repeatedly reminded to use control and touch their targets. Intermediate students are taught to use heavier contact while still using control. This process continues in more advanced classes. At all levels students are practicing on shields, heavy bags, and other punching targets with heavier contact so that they can continue to develop power with their techniques.

Additionally doing regular drills in classes where students grab or push each other to work defenses against those attacks, both in the context of techniques and in unscripted motion based drills helps to familiarize the student to spontaneous contact. This helps to break down the barrier that the students have put up against contact. This process continues into all categories of attack with greater contact at more advanced levels.

These are just some of the basic steps involved. There are many other drills and training techniques which can be used, such as sparring and sensitivity drills, but the real key is to begin the process early. If the instructor waits until the brown or black belt level to hit someone, several problems arise.

• The student has already adjusted to and accepted the degree of contact inherent in his training. To drastically increase that, especially after so much time, without ramping it up slowly, would certainly intimidate the student.
• Students who were naturally predisposed to heavier contact, or looking specifically for it in their self defense training have probably already left the school, leaving no one who can role model toughness and fortitude for the weaker students to emulate.
• It seems hard to except that a student could learn effective self defense and acquire street applicable skills without engaging in some level of contact with a resisting opponent.

Especially at the beginning levels, it is important to pair up students with similar attributes, physically, mentally, emotionally, even experientially. Not every time, but more often than not. Certainly it is important to pair up students of different sizes and strengths so that they can learn to effectively execute technique against a variety of bigger, stronger, or faster attackers, but that can be emphasized to a greater degree later in their training. If too much stress is put on a beginning student, that student will leave, and then they can’t be helped at all.

The most important aspect is to care about the students and be conscious of their unique challenges, while also pushing them to reach outside their comfort zone. That is what a good instructor does. It is important to listen to the students and be concerned with helping them grow as martial artists. The instructor knows what they need to achieve, but he must listen to his students to know how best to lead them to that goal. All students learn and process information differently and being sensitive to each student's needs helps to motivate them properly.

What's funny to me, is that my wife is a cosmetologist, and she experiences the same thing in her line of work. Think about it. How often does a pretty young woman spend five to ten minutes massaging oils and shampoos into your skin? She gets weird reactions from men and women both, because they just aren't accustomed to that degree of intimate contact.

So how do you do it? What drills do you use? What's your philosophy? Your approach?


-Rob

I take one for the team.

I get them hitting a pad or even sparring and throwing punches at me, where I am parry them off. This gets them into the idea of striking. I then let one slip through and let it hit me. This shows them that being hit does not end the fight. That there are still options to continue. I smile at them and make sure the continue to strike. I kepp them striking until I feel they are back at it and then I repeat and let one slip through so they hit me. They have pads on and are not looking to give me a black eye. (* Advanced I have let them hit me in my rubber nose but that is not suggested for others, to show that hitting someone in the head while dangerous is not going to be the single stopper. *)

I then work on increased level of contact. I let sometimes will puch them in a drill to go faster so they make a mistake and they hit me. This shows them the value of control and to train slowly as you can then show them their mistake but just coming close to the level of their msitake. Over time they move up. This timing or speed of movement then allows them get into the grove of sparring.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Benny 'The Jet' had some good ways to desensitize oneself to contact.

Get his book. It's a good one.

Deaf

 

[teekin]

It was kinda chosen for me, growing up in Hawaii,everybody knew something and fighting after school was an everyday thing. My dad and uncle were Kajukenbo BB's and started training with them. They were there in the early days and always trained that way. Back then' it was if you're gonna bust somebody up, you bust em up good. whether it's in a schoolyard or on the street. But I am a Kaju practitioner.

I am unfamiliar with Kaju, please excuse my ignorance. What I see in your answers tells me you are a young man who thinks MA is about kicking *** and taking names. I don't have the words to tell you how superficial that is. It's like trying to explain color to a blind man. Everyone has their own reasons for studying MA's and not all of them will include learning "to fight"; at least not in the sense you mean. You are seeing so little of what MA has to offer it's like you have blinkers on.
lori

 

[just2kicku]

I am unfamiliar with Kaju, please excuse my ignorance. What I see in your answers tells me you are a young man who thinks MA is about kicking *** and taking names. I don't have the words to tell you how superficial that is. It's like trying to explain color to a blind man. Everyone has their own reasons for studying MA's and not all of them will include learning "to fight"; at least not in the sense you mean. You are seeing so little of what MA has to offer it's like you have blinkers on.
lori

Grendel, I would be more than happy to discuss this with you on another thread or PM me. I just don't want to hijack thesemindz thread. The OP asked how to desensitize students to taking blows. Though I am well aware of the other benefits MA has to offer, the answer to THIS question is still the same. I do agree with TF that one will only get desensitized by getting hit and getting hit often. When it comes down to it, you will be better prepared to defend yourself should the need arise. ( I don't believe in taking names, just kick ***! LOL )

Your lips to Gods ears, I'm really not that young. :=)

 

[Aniela13]

Growing up in MA (and growing up with a big brother in the same MA, lol), I don't think I was ever desensitized to contact in class--that came out of class! My brother and I would practice on each other (with our dad laughing and encouraging us to go harder if we were only hitting air), and on our dad (that stopped after my little 7-year-old self nailed him in the groin, though!)

More recently, though, I think I can observe things better in my new dojo in this regard. Last fall we had an extremely small morning class--myself (a white belt at the time), another white belt, and Sensei. We drilled back and forth with our self-defense techniques; I made light contact, she made little contact, but the fun came at the end of class. Sensei (~6'4", 230 lbs) told us he was going to throw a full-speed, full-strength punch at each of us to make sure we know how to block real punches. Since I had prior MA experience, he started with me, and it was no problem. My classmate Mrs. C, however, is a mid-30's lady who has probably never hit someone in her life--she asked him "but what happens if I miss?", to which he replied "it's going to hurt--so don't miss!" She didn't miss, but it drove the point home to me that most people aren't used to MA like I am, and it taught her not only that she is able to block punches like that, but that she is going to have to if she ever gets attacked.

Other than that? Every now and then I get to the dojo early for my class and get to work with some of the kids in the earlier class, or am paired up with some lower belts during class to teach them something--and every time I make sure they know they have to hit me. We make a joke out of it since I'm smaller than most of them (alas...), but I just tell them that I have an older brother, so I've probably been hit harder than they're going to hit me! I also take the opportunity to lightly hit back when the chance arises--if a student should be guarding his face and isn't, I'll swipe at it; if his block is too slow, he gets hit. We don't get hurt, but hopefully we get dewussified

~Ani

 

[Twin Fist]

someone gave me a negative rep ding for this, so I thought I ought to repost it:


hit them

hit them again

keep on hitting them

after a few months, they stop crying about getting hit