How appliable is aikido for self-defense?

[Gerry Seymour]

Haha.. ok lock me down lolsss Hey I read some of your things my friend and it sound like you have qualification in psychology maybe? and so can you tell me in this case what is it called that we read something that is incorrect like @Steve astutely point out and but we do not even notice it?? Well maybe just me! I did not notice it.. I read it as it is supposed to be "applicable".. Is like this here below kind of thing..

People | Cognition and Brain Sciences Unit

we see what is not even there some times, right? Like this do create problems for actual police and giving lawful evidence etc, right? Like people say they saw a thing when they did not see it at all??

I actually didn't notice it until he pointed it out, too.

I've forgotten the term for the cognitive process, but it's fairly common. Our brains love patterns and are very good at filling in gaps. At the simplest level, it's why we perceive a dotted line as a line. If you look at it objectively, it's not a line. It's a bunch of dots, but our brain connects those into a perceived line. That's the same thing you and I did, though in the language center, with the correction of "appliable" to "applicable". Our brains saw the patter (because of the context) and simply read-in the letter that wasn't there.

 

[Jenna]

I actually didn't notice it until he pointed it out, too.

I've forgotten the term for the cognitive process, but it's fairly common. Our brains love patterns and are very good at filling in gaps. At the simplest level, it's why we perceive a dotted line as a line. If you look at it objectively, it's not a line. It's a bunch of dots, but our brain connects those into a perceived line. That's the same thing you and I did, though in the language center, with the correction of "appliable" to "applicable". Our brains saw the patter (because of the context) and simply read-in the letter that wasn't there.

Our brains think they know better than um.. we do.. whoever we are to think that

Hey look even you are doing it now.. you have said (if you do not correct it) "our brains saw the patter" (with no "n") haha.. now stop that.. you are making it confusing now!!! x

Anyway, the matter at hand.. what do we rename this thread? I am forming a secret committee to hash it out

 

[drop bear]

Couture to Seagal: Calm down, bro

I think it all started back here. The drama... I hope it sold some tickets.

For the rest, I don't think anyone seriously wants to watch Seagal or Couture fight in a cage anymore... against anyone. It would be like getting Roger Staubach and Terry Bradshaw together, putting them back in their football gear and getting them out on the football field. No one wants to see that.

I remember when Bjorn Borg tried to come back to tennis in 1991, using a wood racket and generally hoping no one would notice that 8 years had elapsed since he retired from pro tennis. That wasn't fun to watch.

bit of fun though. there is a football match that does specifically that. the ej whitten legends game.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Our brains think they know better than um.. we do.. whoever we are to think that

Hey look even you are doing it now.. you have said (if you do not correct it) "our brains saw the patter" (with no "n") haha.. now stop that.. you are making it confusing now!!! x

Anyway, the matter at hand.. what do we rename this thread? I am forming a secret committee to hash it out

I vote for "Random comments about aikido, old celebrities, and cognitive pattern matching"

 

[Jenna]

I vote for "Random comments about aikido, old celebrities, and cognitive pattern matching"

Ooooh you just earn your self a place on the secret ex post facto thread naming committee x

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

We really don't know if a former professional fighter could demolish an actor who is almost a decade older and grossly out of shape?

The only thing we know is this line of talk is fantasy and a derailment of this thread.

 

[Xue Sheng]

You didn't miss my post that you quoted where I said that Seagal could be in his 20s and 30s and it wouldn't mean a hill of beans because Couture would demolish him anyway?



I get your point. You seem to be missing my point that Seagal isn't, and has never been a fighter. You also seem to miss that point that Seagal himself didn't seem to think his age would be a factor in fighting against Couture.

You are still missing the point, and your statements show that you are. You are talking about things I never said or even implied, and making assumptions based on whatever it is you think I said. If you want my opinion on the outcome of a fight between Seagal and Couture, both in their prime or otherwise, feel free to ask. But before you do that I would appreciate it if you would stop making assumptions about what you appear to think I am saying.

As for what Seagal said, based on what I read in the link provided by Steve, you are wrong there as well. He never said he would beat him. He said he would fight him and one would walk out. That is unless you have another source you care to share where Seagal makes the statement you seem to believe he made.

 

[Hanzou]

I read and understood you perfectly, I am simply not allowing you to redirect the post and doing muy best to keep you on the topic of this discussion, which is 'age'. And you seem to be missing my point about age, or purposely avoiding it, completely. You seem to want to change it to a "for or against", or MMA vs TMA argument, and would prefer to make the is an argument about who is a better fighter, and I am not. As far as I can tell I never even eluded to 'better fighter' or 'winner' of this scenario in any of my posts.

I am simply making the point that your statement and for that matter Seagal's statement of meeting and fighting a person 11 years younger than him when he is 64 is illogical and just plain silly. However from what I saw in the links "Steve" (not Steven Seagal) provided, Seagal never said he would beat him, he said he would fight him, and one of them would walk out. Of course he did not say he would lose either.

You don't challenge someone to a fight unless you think you can beat them.

 

[drop bear]

You are still missing the point, and your statements show that you are. You are talking about things I never said or even implied, and making assumptions based on whatever it is you think I said. If you want my opinion on the outcome of a fight between Seagal and Couture, both in their prime or otherwise, feel free to ask. But before you do that I would appreciate it if you would stop making assumptions about what you appear to think I am saying.

As for what Seagal said, based on what I read in the link provided by Steve, you are wrong there as well. He never said he would beat him. He said he would fight him and one would walk out. That is unless you have another source you care to share where Seagal makes the statement you seem to believe he made.

I had this same argument with a guy. I thought he said he was going to break my jaw. But he claimed he only said my jaw was going to get broken. Not that he was going to do it.

He was upset because i suplexed him and he did not understand why.

True story.

 

[Hanzou]

The only thing we know is this line of talk is fantasy and a derailment of this thread.

Quite true, let's get back on topic.

This is what Roy Dean said about Aikido and self-defense;

"I generally take issue with the aikido I’ve learned, seen, and come in contact with being advertised as self-defense. Although there are aspects and techniques of aikido that I believe can be gleaned and added to your martial arsenal (i.e. footwork for getting off the line, blending with an overcommitted attack, etc.), I could never recommend it to somebody who wanted to learn self-defense. Not only is there too much silence about what works and what doesn’t, the non-competitive training method doesn’t put students in pressure situations similar enough to real confrontations, breeding a false sense of security in students through tacit affirmations such as:

1) It may take 20 years, but this stuff will work if you just keep practicing.

2) Don’t worry about strength, since physical conditioning isn’t that important.

3) These exercises we’re doing are how attacks really are.

4) If it’s not working, you’re not using your center.

5) Keep extending that ki to keep him at bay!

It’s not fair to your students to misrepresent what your art is capable of. If your average aikido student rolled with a judo or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu player, or got in the ring with a boxer or kick boxer, he wouldn’t know what to do with that kind of intensity. He’d simply be overwhelmed. I’ve seen this point debated through letters to the editor in Aikido Today Magazine, but there’s only one way to find out. Do it. To paraphrase Bruce Lee, you can’t learn to swim unless you get wet, so how can you learn how to fight without fighting?"

slideyfoot.com | bjj resources: DVD Review - The White Belt Bible (Roy Dean)

Quite an interesting perspective, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Flying Crane]

I've never heard of Roy Dean.

 

[Xue Sheng]

You don't challenge someone to a fight unless you think you can beat them.

In your opinion.

You might want to check the links Steve supplied and actually listen to what is being said without bias though...but you won't so...

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Quite true, let's get back on topic.

This is what Roy Dean said about Aikido and self-defense;

"I generally take issue with the aikido I’ve learned, seen, and come in contact with being advertised as self-defense. Although there are aspects and techniques of aikido that I believe can be gleaned and added to your martial arsenal (i.e. footwork for getting off the line, blending with an overcommitted attack, etc.), I could never recommend it to somebody who wanted to learn self-defense. Not only is there too much silence about what works and what doesn’t, the non-competitive training method doesn’t put students in pressure situations similar enough to real confrontations, breeding a false sense of security in students through tacit affirmations such as:

1) It may take 20 years, but this stuff will work if you just keep practicing.

2) Don’t worry about strength, since physical conditioning isn’t that important.

3) These exercises we’re doing are how attacks really are.

4) If it’s not working, you’re not using your center.

5) Keep extending that ki to keep him at bay!

It’s not fair to your students to misrepresent what your art is capable of. If your average aikido student rolled with a judo or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu player, or got in the ring with a boxer or kick boxer, he wouldn’t know what to do with that kind of intensity. He’d simply be overwhelmed. I’ve seen this point debated through letters to the editor in Aikido Today Magazine, but there’s only one way to find out. Do it. To paraphrase Bruce Lee, you can’t learn to swim unless you get wet, so how can you learn how to fight without fighting?"

slideyfoot.com | bjj resources: DVD Review - The White Belt Bible (Roy Dean)

Quite an interesting perspective, wouldn't you agree?

I agree, though he's talking about the training method, not Ueshiba's art, itself. There's no reason some enterprising instructor couldn't add in elements of appropriate resistance, realistic attacks, etc.

 

[Hanzou]

I agree, though he's talking about the training method, not Ueshiba's art, itself. There's no reason some enterprising instructor couldn't add in elements of appropriate resistance, realistic attacks, etc.

Isn't the training method an integral part of the art?

 

[Flying Crane]

Isn't the training method an integral part of the art?

There are different elements of any training method, and variety does exist. Are you unable to recognize that?

 

[Steve]

Roy dean is a black belt in jujutsu, aikido and also BJJ.

 

[Hanzou]

There are different elements of any training method, and variety does exist. Are you unable to recognize that?

Yes, but every art has unique training methods that separate them from other arts.

Additionally there's the culture of the system itself. For example, while there are competitive forms of Aikido, the vast majority of Aikido is non-competitive because "O-Sensei" opposed competition and they're never going to change.

 

[Flying Crane]

Yes, but every art has unique training methods that separate them from other arts.

Additionally there's the culture of the system itself. For example, while there are competitive forms of Aikido, the vast majority of Aikido is non-competitive because "O-Sensei" opposed competition and they're never going to change.

But do you understand that anybody can ramp up the intensity of how they train, to whatever level they choose? That is a decision of the instructor, or even the individual to do on his own if the school does not. Do you understand that?

 

[Flying Crane]

Roy dean is a black belt in jujutsu, aikido and also BJJ.

Does he have some notoriety or something, for which his comments should be taken seriously by the martial community at large?

 

[Hanzou]

But do you understand that anybody can ramp up the intensity of how they train, to whatever level they choose? That is a decision of the instructor, or even the individual to do on his own if the school does not. Do you understand that?

If the methodology is flawed you can ramp it up as much as you like and it isn't going to help. You have to go to the core of the methodology itself and hammer out the flaws in order to make a real impact. However, that may be more difficult in systems where the founder is heavily revered. There's also a real danger of losing the art's uniqueness in the process.