How A Real Man Fights

[still learning]

Hello, Some of us do like to order "Man" size sandwich....
it doesn't make us a man...just act like one...

two man size burgers "please" ....oh too Go!

Aloha, UM!

PS: ...need help? ...looking for a" bigger".. Man size sandwich? ....can you help?

Also...Real man stands up at the restrooms ...not sure of smaller man?

 

[chinto]

I know you all have heard it at one point or another. Somebody finds out about your martial arts training, they're larger, muscle-bound and untrained, they laugh and push you back and say "I bet you kick in a fight! You can't fight like a real man! You'll never be able to beat my muscle!" I've heard the phrase a lot lately and so I decided to see what MT had to say about such people.

Among the things that I've heard from people like that, I've heard that a real man will:

Never throw kicks
Only use fist punches
Only use his muscles
Never attack the eyes or groin
Never go to the ground
and so on and so forth.

Now granted, muscle WILL always beat everything else....in activities that involve muscle or weight, such as hardest strikes, weight lifting or something. And of course, no matter how technically skilled you are, you probably won't be able to beat Andre The Giant in hand to hand combat (unless you happen to be Wesley!), but that's just one variable. I just want to know what my fellow martial artists have to say about statements such as these.

LOL!!! IF I have to fight its not for fun!!!! IF you FIGHT YOU MAY DIE! so there are NO rules but survival!!

 

[Touch Of Death]

I'm a real man that fights like a sissy.(scorned!)
Sean

 

[Kwan Jang]

When I went to my 20 year high school reunion a few years back, I ran into basically the same thing. The funny thing is, I'm a former champion strength athlete and the "muscle bound guy". The normal questions about people's careers, ect. were going on and it came up that I own and operate a martial arts school and do tactical training. This guy who I probably outweighed by 100 lbs. of solid muscle was asking "do ya think you could take me" and made "that stuff won't work on a real man"-type comments. I tried playing it off, but he actually kept on with the "what would you do if I did this" type of stuff. I told him that I bench close to 600 and squat over 800 and would laugh when he broke his hand hitting me and then sue him for assault. I'd like to have a second house back in San Jose and I hoped he'd been successful enough since High school to make the law suit worth my while.

A fun TV show for me is BULLY BEATDOWN on MTV. In truth it's not really a great show, but the concept is fun. They pay local bullies/bad___- to fight a MMA fighter $10 grand in the cage. The fights are two, three minute rounds with one being submission grappling and one being kickboxing. Every time the bully taps out, one grand goes to the victim. In the second round, if the bully lasts the round, he keeps $5 grand, if he doesn't the victim gets it. These "real men" often believe they can hang with or beat a trained fighter because "that stuff don't work" and they are "undefeated street fighters". The resulting lessons in humility are quite a blast. IMO, this should be required programming for this type of idiot.

 

[James Kovacich]

I've haven't see a bully "give" a beat down on that show. The "streetfighters" were pretty sad compared to what they thought they actually were.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

I've haven't see a bully "give" a beat down on that show. The "streetfighters" were pretty sad compared to what they thought they actually were.

Most "Streetfighters" are.

 

[sadantkd]

Andre was huge but not muscular huge. As we say sometimes, theres always someone badder around the corner.

Any giant could be chopped down.

Size can be a determining factor but it isn't the rule, at least with anyone I know.

I've seen completely untrained school kids with better technique than either of those guys used. That was truly pathetic.

 

[The Destroyer Style]

If a person says something like this to you. It is obvious they have never fought for their lives in a real life or death situation. The only time you should fight is in a life or death situation. In wich case technique and speed are more important then strength or muscle. In fact your muscle can restrict your body from making certain movements. This not only hinders you in a fight, but in real life as well. Don't let their talk get you down. They speak of their own strength because they don't know true strength.



Cody

 

[Kwan Jang]

Oh great, the ignorant "muscle will slow you down and hinder your movement"-myth rears it's ugly head. While technique makes the most of your physical capacity, having lean muscle is a major part of what that capacity is. Also, basic physiology is that a larger muscle (on the same person) is a stronger muscle and a stronger muscle contracts faster than a weaker one. It should be noted that while everyone should stretch, as long as you develop your muscle along the body's natural proportions and strength curve, it should make you more flexible, not less.

If some martial artists would study ex. phys. a bit more and pass around old wives tales a bit less, maybe this myth would finally die the death it so richly deserves. If you won't take the time to read any actual research on the subject, I'll post a quick vid as a case study for you.

 

[Draven]

IAmong the things that I've heard from people like that, I've heard that a real man will:

Never throw kicks
Only use fist punches
Only use his muscles
Never attack the eyes or groin
Never go to the ground
and so on and so forth.

Thats all BS they tell you to keep you fighting without any real skill or intent. Nothing that displays you have a skill they don't and limits your abilioty to win. If someone were to tell me that, I'd simply smile and tell them I'm from the John Wayne school of fighting. Real men shoot first & talk **** later...

 

[geezer]

Oh great, the ignorant "muscle will slow you down and hinder your movement"-myth ...

Hey Kwang, I'm dealing with this issue right now. I'm a Wing Chunner and over the years I've been repeatedly warned against lifting weights. Various instructors from my old Chinese sifu, to my current instructor who keeps up on modern research into kinesiology and training techniques, have told me to lay-off the weights. They all say that heavy weights lead to heavy muscles and a massive quality that interferes with the kind of "sensitivity" and light, quick upper-body movement required for good Chi-Sau.

Now I watched your video and have seen other martial artists (Van Damme comes to mind) who were heavily muscled, yet fast, stretched and even acrobatic... at least with their lower body. On the other hand, Chi-Sau requires a great deal or upper body flexibility, range of movement, and a very light touch. I have to say that as I've built up my arms and shoulders, I have fallen behind my peers in the ability to quickly sense and redirect my energy. It's a very subtle art and in spite of many years of experience, my heavy arms seem to be holding me back. We are discussing this right now down on the Wing Chun forum if you'd like to weigh in on the topic.

Now to get back on topic. How real men fight? That's dueling. A contest of honor based on rules, and etiquette... I don't duel. If I fight it's because I don't have a choice. That's self defense. And as others have already said, when you are fighting to defend yourself and your loved ones only one thing matters-- winning.

 

[still learning]

Hey Kwang, I'm dealing with this issue right now. I'm a Wing Chunner and over the years I've been repeatedly warned against lifting weights. Various instructors from my old Chinese sifu, to my current instructor who keeps up on modern research into kinesiology and training techniques, have told me to lay-off the weights. They all say that heavy weights lead to heavy muscles and a massive quality that interferes with the kind of "sensitivity" and light, quick upper-body movement required for good Chi-Sau.

Now I watched your video and have seen other martial artists (Van Damme comes to mind) who were heavily muscled, yet fast, stretched and even acrobatic... at least with their lower body. On the other hand, Chi-Sau requires a great deal or upper body flexibility, range of movement, and a very light touch. I have to say that as I've built up my arms and shoulders, I have fallen behind my peers in the ability to quickly sense and redirect my energy. It's a very subtle art and in spite of many years of experience, my heavy arms seem to be holding me back. We are discussing this right now down on the Wing Chun forum if you'd like to weigh in on the topic.

Now to get back on topic. How real men fight? That's dueling. A contest of honor based on rules, and etiquette... I don't duel. If I fight it's because I don't have a choice. That's self defense. And as others have already said, when you are fighting to defend yourself and your loved ones only one thing matters-- winning.

Hello, Bruce Lee believe in lifting weights ....many methods.
Not to be confuse with muscle building...

Aloha,

 

[Omar B]

It's a myth. Muscle does not hinder movement or flexibility at all.

 

[Kwan Jang]

Geezer, I have been doing sticky hands for about 27 years and my muscle mass has never hindered me at all towards sensetivity and only enhanced my speed and agility including upper body and hand speed. I am also a (lower level) guro in the FMA's and have used similar drills for decades. I also include sticky and push hand drills to teach sensetivity not only for trapping, but also for entering in submission grappling. In grappling, your sensetivity to your opponents movements are more of a full body action than in trapping, but it's a good starting point.

Think of this, is Brock Lesnar (who carries a similar amount of muscle mass to me) less sensetive to the movements of his opponents than WC'ers like your sifu? Is he slow or less explosive? Actually, I am not a fan of Lesnar's (far from it), but giving the devil his due, he is very explosive and he is a master at controlling positioning. This takes an extreme level of whole body sensetivity and that is one of the legitimate skills he brings to the octagon.

 

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I know you all have heard it at one point or another. Somebody finds out about your martial arts training, they're larger, muscle-bound and untrained, they laugh and push you back and say "I bet you kick in a fight! You can't fight like a real man! You'll never be able to beat my muscle!" I've heard the phrase a lot lately and so I decided to see what MT had to say about such people.

Among the things that I've heard from people like that, I've heard that a real man will:

Never throw kicks
Only use fist punches
Only use his muscles
Never attack the eyes or groin
Never go to the ground
and so on and so forth.

Now granted, muscle WILL always beat everything else....in activities that involve muscle or weight, such as hardest strikes, weight lifting or something. And of course, no matter how technically skilled you are, you probably won't be able to beat Andre The Giant in hand to hand combat (unless you happen to be Wesley!), but that's just one variable. I just want to know what my fellow martial artists have to say about statements such as these.

Then by that Aholes reasoning he should never fight anyone smaller than him.

My Old man had some sayings "Never shoot a man in the face you can shoot in the back of the head." "Their is no cheating in a fight, screww someone else's opinon of what is honorable. If you are fighting than obviously being cival and diplomatic did not work or you had no chance to and no choice."

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

Isn't Andre dead? I think I could beat a dead man...

In regards to the other stuff.. I consider a real man a man who understands his own moral values, is a man of honor, and has priorities and places thos epriorities in the correct order and will do anything to protect his values and priorities.

What does that group of bullcrap actually mean?

Well if its involving a fight a real man will do what it takes to win... by his own moral values and code of honor... within whatever rules he agreed to prior or not..

If he has a family or other responsibilities then himself he will place those above his ego, and might leave a confrontation, or lose a confrontation to protect his priorities...

I try to be a real man in my dealings with others, but often times find my pride and my love of fighting to conflict with my own priorities of my family above all else... thats the hardest part for me... fighting is easy... fighting with or without rules is easy... not fighting, or leaving a possible fight so there is no trouble or consequences for my family or friends is often the hardest part..

 

[Draven]

If a person says something like this to you. It is obvious they have never fought for their lives in a real life or death situation. The only time you should fight is in a life or death situation. In wich case technique and speed are more important then strength or muscle. In fact your muscle can restrict your body from making certain movements. This not only hinders you in a fight, but in real life as well. Don't let their talk get you down. They speak of their own strength because they don't know true strength.



Cody

Thats only true in the case of over training one muscle group and under training another. Balanced muscle building exercise don't cause limited physical movement issues and it never really slows anyone down.

 

[The Destroyer Style]

See, this is how rumors get started, I never said it would slow you down. I said it would hender movement. Haha, you mis interpretations of my terminology is really un needed. It henders motion, which means you cannot twist or move a body part in a certain way. You spoke, before you thought. Its cool though, I know I didn't really elaborate. I was speaking of having huge body parts, that would restrict motion.


Cody

 

[The Destroyer Style]

I can prove my point easily, to anyone who has ever boxed. Ever notice, when you are standing with your hands up. You can't make your elbows touch. Muscle expanditure, is what is restricting that. You can stretch and get around it however. It will just take a while. Who ever thinks they can gain muscle mass and keep flexability is wrong. The only would be to stretch, as much as you lift. Even then huge body parts, like bicepts will not turn, as quickly. I highly doubt anyone arguing this point against me has huge bicepts. Thats why their opinion, is impracticle to me. Gain strength not bulk.

 

[Kwan Jang]

I have well over 30" thighs (lean enough to see striations) and over 20" arms. I have posted a video showing me doing full splits and vertical kicks. So there goes your unfounded theory down the drain. As long as you keep your muscle mass in proper balance and proportion along the natural strength curve of the body (as Draven already pointed out), there is no reason that having greater muscle mass will hinder your range of motion. In fact, if you train your resistance exercises along a full range of motion (as the vast majority of experts recommend), it should actually enhance your range of motion as well as prevent many of the strength imbalances that restrict range of motion that someone who doesn't strength train will have.

I know that this is geting away from the original topic, but I feel it's an irony that the counter bias is being shown here. The original topic was about the insecurity that some show towards martial artists and how they will criticize out of that insecurity. This drift in the thread has centered on how some martial artists will make false statements about strength training to cover their own insecurities and shortcomings. Whether the source of their false premise is a "hand-me-down myth" or not.