Wow, this is a really strong position--more than the usual anti-usury position. I think you're seeing conspiracies that aren't there and tracing causes too far back.
Honoring the Fallen? Exactly who are you respecting?
- Thread starter MA-Caver
- Start date
Wow, this is a really strong position--more than the usual anti-usury position. I think you're seeing conspiracies that aren't there and tracing causes too far back.
There's plenty of ways to learn more about this matter. Here are two...
1. http://www.amazon.com/Creature-Jekyll-Island-Federal-Reserve/dp/0912986212
2. http://www.amazon.com/Ascent-Money-Financial-History-World/dp/1594201927/ref=ed_oe_h
Take a look and see for yourself...
I am creating a Foundation that is dedicated to Liberty and Peace. This Foundation will fund a private school, a multi-media company, and a wellness clinic. I may not see peace in this world in my life time, but I will die knowing that I worked for it.
I think you misapprehend my meaning. I don't feel undereducated about this matter. I think you've taken extreme and unsupportable positions.
Care to elaborate? I may have jumped too far and I'd like to read what you think.
I told you why, because they are the British Army and thats what they do so don't you dare call them ignorant, they are intelligent, warm, the best people I know and you will never ever understand why they do what they do so please don't call them names.
They know that they also make a difference in peoples lives, that what they do actually helps people. Our medics are out there everyday helping the local population, the soldiers are building schools, hospitals, orphanages, clean water supplies for the locals. They go out and touch peoples lives as well as defend them.
They know very well what they are sacrificing their lives for and they also know that they would do it all again. I think it's a character trait that many non British and non British miitary will never understand. The British squaddie is a unique entity in this world and is a steadfast comfort in fast changing times. they aren't angels far from it but when the chips are down they are the finest people in the world to be with. Until you've spent time with them and get even a glimmer of an idea of what they are about I'd suggest you don't make assumptions about them.
They aren't pawns in a game for you to feel pity for them, they aren't poor, young and ignorant conscipts who have nothing better to do, these are warriors every damn one of them, and most people aren't fit to lick their boots.
You have a very...romantic view of a phenomenon that surely admits sociological and economic explanations. It's basically the same way the U.S. Marine Corps markets itself to potential enlistees--that there's an allure about it that is beyond pecuniary rewards. "Because we're British" is great for stoking the fires of patriotism but one can look deeper than that.
You don't really seem to enjoy discussing things, do you?
Ludicrous jingoism. Do they themselves look down on the populace they protect in this demeaning way?
You don't really seem to enjoy discussing things, do you?
Ludicrous jingoism. Do they themselves look down on the populace they protect in this demeaning way?
You wrote, at various points in this thread:
The first two points sound like conspiracy theories, and the others are too extremely stated. I doubt France felt there was another way to handle the German invasion, for example...unless you count the Vichy regime. Whether dismantling the whole international monetary system would prevent war is, at the least, a moot point. Loans help ease poverty in developing nations, as just one example.
This is how the life of a "warrior" is marketed. It's the program that gets people in the door. I know they aren't conscripts, these are men and women who are deciding to buy a product. This product serves an agenda and you can learn more about this by taking a look at its historical track record. This track record is not honorable.
The intent to serve and protect your fellow countrymen is honorable and I respect that. What this looks like to me is cleaning up in the community after a disaster, enforcing the laws of the community and working for peace so that we don't have to pick up our weapons.
If more people viewed the killing of our fellow man as a dishonorable, regrettable, and albeit necessary last resort, there would be a lot less war. With my karate, this works for me. I have been in very few fights throughout my entire life. I've been able to de-escalate and avoid most violent encounters through adjusting my behavior. The times that this hasn't worked for me are when I've made mistakes and paid the consequences.
I see war and international conflict in the same way.
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That's a judgement that you are making that is misinformed. The first point is historical and you could learn more about it by taking a look at the history of money and war.
The second point is not extreme, at least not when you look at the evidence presented. Being unconvinced by the government's explanation is perfectly logical.
They might be extremely stated, but then, IMO, going to war is an extreme measure and something that is ultimately tragic and dishonorable. Some of it is a matter of subjective opinon because I feel that resorting to violence should be the "last" resort. Some of it is historical, thus the study of how wars and international finance inter-relate is important. The last point is simply how I feel. War is obcene not worthy of our honor. It's not a commonly held position, however, I think that if you look at the details, it's supportable.
This statement is made in ignorance of international finance, war, the IMF and the World Bank. If you consider how the current MIC around the world was created, is maintained, and expanded you'll discover a system of finance that is perfectly situated for that purpose and also for controlling the various MICs of the world. The details, in the form of what the people who created said, point to the fact that controlling war as a tool was always a purpose.
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Archangel M
Senior Master
Dont get him started on the 9/11 crap AGAIN!! I think that when you look at peoples beliefs in a whole you begin to see a pattern. There are threads of global conspiracy across almost ALL beliefs in some folks wolrdviews. I any crowd you stand a chance of bumping into someone who is a conspiracy nut, or who is preparing for the UN troops to invade by stockpiling weapons. Its all mental "pacifiers" that people use to make sense out of life...even if their view is all doom and gloom there is some sort of comfort in knowing (or believing you know) how the world works.
We have GOT to show 'kumu the MGS 4 game storyline, it's as if he ought to have gotten a writing credit.
LOL - maybe that's what I should do with my time instead of blathering about on the internet about weird political ideas. Oh well, back to karate...
The problem with conspiracy theories is that people are just not competent enough to carry them out. Sorry I don’t believe people have the ability to plan, execute and keep secret some of the theories out there. We’re not that smart.
The bigger the conspiracy, generally the more people who are involved, hence greater chance of a leak.
If conspiracy’s do occur, how the Hell did Nixon get caught? You would think that with all the power he could have kept a lid on the whole Watergate thing.
The bigger the conspiracy, generally the more people who are involved, hence greater chance of a leak.
If conspiracy’s do occur, how the Hell did Nixon get caught? You would think that with all the power he could have kept a lid on the whole Watergate thing.
there's no bloody allure in the armed forces trust me, and I damn well mean it about there being people not fit to lick their boots, the ones who live off social security, who whinge if they aren't given a television, who have never worked a day in their lives so shove that in your pipe and smoke it.
I don't like discussing things, don't make me larf, sunshine, don't accuse me of jingoism and don't bloody patronise me.
British squaddies are the most cantankerous, most drunken, most troublesome, insubordinate buggers around but I reiterate they are who I want watching my back and they do bless them. I have no romantic ideas and the Brtish army doesn't either, it doesn't market itself as being an elite or that it's anything other than blood sweat, tears and death. They are warriors because I have seen them fight. they join up knowing exactly what to expect and do what the army has always had to do, the job of shovelling **** uphill, clearing up after the mess the politicians make, yeah they complain, oh they complain but they do the job all the same. 'Because we're British' isn't jingoistic, it means we just get stuck in and do the job nought to do with patriotism. Being British is what got us through the Blitz, Dunkirk, the IRA bombings, the 7/7 bombings etc, being British is about making do, making the best of a bad job, being British is when something bad happens everyone says 'never mind' and gets on with life. Stick your patriotism, keep it for the rogues.
You have read what I posted totally wrongly and because I've had a really ****** night and because we've just lost 8 soldiers in the past few hours I've absolutely no time for people putting words in my mouth and spouting bollocks.
Face facts, your government at the time started a war, then they invaded a country and us led by idiots backed you up. Don't blame the forces blame your damn government.
It's fine sitting at a computer pontificating about peace and how we should be brothers but you government sort of forgot that didn't they when the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan was mooted. Don't say oh well I didn't vote for Bush, some bugger did and some bugger voted for BLiar and some bugger has done for our troops haven't they so spare us the sanctimonious lecture, some of us have funerals to go to.
Archangel M
Senior Master
Er..having been a soldier myself Tez I share your emotions, but my countrymen lead the race in sacrifices of life, limb, blood and tears in this one..and we likewise only do the job that is asked of us so please dont make this into a UK vs US thing. I can laud my nations servicemen and women just as loudly as you can yours.
In another vein..I wouldnt lump Iraq and Afghanistan into the same basket...IMO Afgh. was the war we should have been concentrating on. While Iraq may have "had it coming" since the first gulf war cease fire, I can see a debate in its timing and necessity. However Afghanistan had NO objections from anybody when we went in there. I think its been unfairly packaged with Iraq.
In another vein..I wouldnt lump Iraq and Afghanistan into the same basket...IMO Afgh. was the war we should have been concentrating on. While Iraq may have "had it coming" since the first gulf war cease fire, I can see a debate in its timing and necessity. However Afghanistan had NO objections from anybody when we went in there. I think its been unfairly packaged with Iraq.
I'm not making it into anything, I'm answering posts on here that accuse the soldiers ( yours as well) of being naive dupes as well as stupid.It really annoys me that people attack service people in such a condescending way. The attack was also a personal one on me for being 'romantic' and 'jingoistic' which is bollocks, the military here whether at war or not are contributing to the country, earning their living and trying to make a good life for them and theirs while we have layabouts who live off the tax payer, have countless kids we pay for, live rent free, are given money every week out of the public purse and I sodding well get called jingoistic for saying they aren't fit to lick the boots of servicemen? No way!
Btw this is our fourth war in Afghanistan not first. Plenty of people here complained about the war there this time round. Most Brits don't think we should be there and Brown is so low in the polls, Labour will probably lose the next election on the Afghan issue.
Archangel M
Senior Master
Dont let em get you down Tez. Its always been my opinion that if you really look at the overall picture of the types who like to look down on soldiers you will find that they are 99.9% males who never served themselves. They will say that it was because they were too smart, or too wired into the reality of life...etc. etc. but I think theres more.
I think its an ego thing to justify some sort of repressed regret for never having stepped up themselves. Much like many guys seem to like to poke at cops. Guys have that "pecking order" thing hardwired and even if they can rationalize a denial of it the soldier, cop ...or anybody else in whats percieved as an "alpha male" role...there seems to be some need to knock them down so you feel better. A lot like some guys overboard homophobia is likely expressed to reinforce their insecurity in their masculinity.
PS-This is not to say that ALL those who never served fall into this category. The vast majority of guys who didnt enlist have no issues whatsoever with insecurity because of it...it was simply a choice. Some of the bravest, toughest and best people I know didnt serve.
But many...espically in the "warrior" Martial Artist crowd...seem to fit the bill. In my experience the types also seem to collect many weapons, motorcycles, study military history, like to do the "navy seal workouts", focus on the "I can shoot better than most cops" thing....
Again, I myself fit into many of those categories. Im just trying to flesh out a "type" that I seem to find. Take that as you will...Im no sociologist/psychologist, and I could very well be projecting, because I joined up in part because as a young man I felt like I was "less" than my buddies who enlisted, so instead of living a life of regrets, wannabeism and "could have been"...I just went and "did".
I think its an ego thing to justify some sort of repressed regret for never having stepped up themselves. Much like many guys seem to like to poke at cops. Guys have that "pecking order" thing hardwired and even if they can rationalize a denial of it the soldier, cop ...or anybody else in whats percieved as an "alpha male" role...there seems to be some need to knock them down so you feel better. A lot like some guys overboard homophobia is likely expressed to reinforce their insecurity in their masculinity.
PS-This is not to say that ALL those who never served fall into this category. The vast majority of guys who didnt enlist have no issues whatsoever with insecurity because of it...it was simply a choice. Some of the bravest, toughest and best people I know didnt serve.
But many...espically in the "warrior" Martial Artist crowd...seem to fit the bill. In my experience the types also seem to collect many weapons, motorcycles, study military history, like to do the "navy seal workouts", focus on the "I can shoot better than most cops" thing....
Again, I myself fit into many of those categories. Im just trying to flesh out a "type" that I seem to find. Take that as you will...Im no sociologist/psychologist, and I could very well be projecting, because I joined up in part because as a young man I felt like I was "less" than my buddies who enlisted, so instead of living a life of regrets, wannabeism and "could have been"...I just went and "did".
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yorkshirelad
Master Black Belt
Wow...what a despicable sentiment. Better men than you and I die for our freedoms and you make a statement like this....wow.
I can't think of a more horrific thing then war. War has the potential to bring humanity to extinction. It's not something we should honor as a society. It is something we should avoid until it really is the last resort.
As far as people "dying for my freedoms" none of the men and women dying far afield are doing that, IMO. They are dying to serve a greater agenda that has little to do with the common man.
