Honesty the best Policy?

[Yu Sul Man]

Hello All
I came upon an interesting question and I did not know how to respond. Perhaps I could obtain some insight with your help. Recently I found out that a MA instructor I know happens to be Homosexual. He does not tell his students. Do you think he owes his students an explanation in his personal life. I believe his life should be lived the way he wants to but a certain honesty should exsit between him and his students. I feel if he is up front with his life style then people would respect him more then if others would find out else where. He is a good instructor and good with the kids. The honesty thing is just bugging me though.

John

 

[iron_ox]

Hello John,

No disrespect here, but even posing this kind of question, guised as a "he can get more respect" thing seems homo-phobic. If he is not your instructor, it is certainly none of your business. If he is, then you owe him the respect to leave whatever he wants private to be private.

This is a very odd request to ask a general forum - are you trying to out him here?

In my opinion, before you do damage that cannot be undone, abandon this line of worthless enquiry.

Sincerely,

Kevin Sogor

 

[Feisty Mouse]

It is his business. Just as I would not tell a class about my sexual activities as a heterosexual woman, or who I am attracted to, I would assume he would not bring it up in class. It is a moot point, and not appropriate for the classroom - be it martial arts or otherwise.

I would give him the respect you think he deserves, and allow him to tell or not tell whomever he wants in his life. Honesty and respect go both ways. If you want to be honest with him, then, in private, you may decide to talk to him about it - but it not up to anyone else but him to talk to his students or colleagues about it. Respect his apparent decision to keep that part of his life private. I certainly don't march around telling people about my sex life, and I expect him to be the same way.

 

[shesulsa]

No disrespect here, but even posing this kind of question, guised as a "he can get more respect" thing seems homo-phobic. If he is not your instructor, it is certainly none of your business. If he is, then you owe him the respect to leave whatever he wants private to be private.

This is a very odd request to ask a general forum - are you trying to out him here?

In my opinion, before you do damage that cannot be undone, abandon this line of worthless enquiry.

I must agree. To urge the point a little further, do you owe a certain honesty to your students as to your sexual practices / preferences? I don't think I need this information from my teacher.

Why must this instructor out himself? Personally, I think it takes courage to stand by one's convictions whether out or not. Those who are out risk certain danger in bashing, whether verbal, professional or physical. Those who are not risk speculation, gossip, uncertainty. This is a no-win situation and the only way out of it is diversion of the general eye.

Why not just continue to encourage this man in his martial endeavors and lend him a supportive ear? There is no need for him to come out to his class, IMHO.

 

[Tkang_TKD]

I think the instructors personal life is a private matter. What the instructor shares is entirely up to him/her.

 

[The Kai]

It is his own business- If he is professional and don't affect the school

 

[michaeledward]

Do you think he owes his students an explanation in his personal life.

No.
He owes his students Martial Arts instruction. That is what they pay for.

. . . but a certain honesty should exsit between him and his students.

Absolutely.
He should be honest about Martial Arts instruction. He should not teach them deceptively.

I feel if he is up front with his life style then people would respect him more then if others would find out else where.

How would others find out elsewhere? Unless someone who knew, shared that knowledge without the instructors permission or blessing. That action would be disrespectful and disgraceful.

The honesty thing is just bugging me though.

Witholding this information is not being dis-honest, so there is no reason for this to bug you. It would be better, if you are disturbed by this, that you find a way to avoid contact with this instructor, avoid contact with his students, and avoid ever talking about this again.

It might also be useful for you to realize that studies show between 2 and 10% of the adult population of this country are gay. There are probably more of 'them' around you that you realize. Does that bug you too?

Mike

 

[shesulsa]

It might also be useful for you to realize that studies show between 2 and 10% of the adult population of this country are gay. There are probably more of 'them' around you that you realize. Does that bug you too?

...and between 2 and 10% of the animal kingdom is also gay. I wonder if they *choose* that lifestyle? Maybe they need to pray more? I'll bet they could be converted, since that behavior is of the devil and evil and wrong in God's eyes. We should round up all the homosexual animals in the world, make them announce to the world that they are gay (for honesty's sake), then put them in a rehab program.

Yeah, that's the ticket....

CAVEAT: Yu Sul, this post is not intended to indicate this is your intention or inferrence - just a little political jab at right-wing Christian homophobes.

 

[Spud]

It's his private life and not a school issue. There's no honesty issue here. My office doesn't require me to disclose all personal issues that may be offensive to my colleagues.

My Sensei rides a motorcycle without a helmet. I don't approve of that and arguably it sets a bad example for his students. That is still his business.

 

[Yu Sul Man]

Hello all thanks for the replies

I think it does have alot to do with MA we as instructors , especially when we teach kids. I personally dont want my young son to be taught by a person that is homosexual. It is my choice. But the instructor is not giving people that chocice if he is not up front with it I work with alot of people that are homosexuals and I get along fine with them. But that is the end of my involvement with them.
It is none of my business of their sexual preference but I have the right to know who is involved in my life and my kids life. I think all parents out there would agree.

I mean not to offend anyone but if a martial art instructors private life is none of their students business , then that just opens a whole can of worms. We should be pillars of society.

Regards John

 

[Feisty Mouse]

Well, if you are homophobic, then it is up to you to pull your kids out of a gay person's class. Although I shudder to think what you are teaching your kids.

Homosexuality isn't "catching", and gay men are less likely to molest children then men who consider themselves to be straight.

I guess I should find out who's homophobic in my classes, and decide not to work with them. Except that's intolerant.

 

[skaterlac]

Hi Johnboy! Has this teacher been dishonest actually? I mean has anyone asked .. excuse me teacher... are you gay? And he answered with dishonesty?

Other than that, for the public sanction of the school.. if eel it is probably not appropritate to bring sexual orientation up... along with some of those other things like political affiliation, religious affiliation and so on....

But possibly for those "inner-door" students who may be in the situation where one may become an apprectice or disciple, maybe discussion at that depth may be more appropriate. And certainly when questioned, honesty seems more important.

Thinking of that... There are other teachers that I know of that are actually convicted pediphiles (sp?) and they claim to be straight as an arrow. They have great martial skill. Big Qi, hahaha.. However, some inner -door students did suffer the consequences.. Hmmm....

 

[Tkang_TKD]

I personally dont want my young son to be taught by a person that is homosexual. It is my choice.

Yes it is your choice entirely. Does being homosexual in any way shape or form invalidate the instructors ability to teach?

But the instructor is not giving people that chocice if he is not up front with it

That is that wonderful thing called personal freedom at work. The instructors personal life is of no consequence unless there is criminal activity at play. Last time I looked, being gay was only a crime if your a right-wing religious wacko.

I work with alot of people that are homosexuals and I get along fine with them.

This is the same argument as "I can't be a racist, I have alot of friends that are ______________ (Fill in race of choice)"

It is none of my business of their sexual preference but I have the right to know who is involved in my life and my kids life. I think all parents out there would agree.

I totally agree, and as a responsible parent, there are many things you can do. You can observe the instructors interaction with your child, you can probably even find out if the instructor has any history of inappropriate behavior children, and you can get other parents views and opinions.

I mean not to offend anyone but if a martial art instructors private life is none of their students business , then that just opens a whole can of worms. We should be pillars of society.

What does being Gay have to do with ones standing in the community?

 

[michaeledward]

Hello all thanks for the replies

I think it does have alot to do with MA we as instructors , especially when we teach kids. I personally dont want my young son to be taught by a person that is homosexual. It is my choice. But the instructor is not giving people that chocice if he is not up front with it I work with alot of people that are homosexuals and I get along fine with them. But that is the end of my involvement with them.
It is none of my business of their sexual preference but I have the right to know who is involved in my life and my kids life. I think all parents out there would agree.

I mean not to offend anyone but if a martial art instructors private life is none of their students business , then that just opens a whole can of worms. We should be pillars of society.

Regards John

BULLHOCKEY!

If the instructor is practicing sexual techniques in the studio, then, OF COURSE, it is your business. But what he does in the privacy of his own home and bedroom is none-of-your-g0d-damned-business.

You absolutely have the responsibility to know who is involved in your childrens' lives ... but you do not have the right to know their private business, whether it be bank balances, or sexual preferences.

And your implication that gay men and women can not be pillars of society demonstrates intolerance and bigotry; how can someone with such attributes be considered a pillar of society?

Take your children out of his studio, if you must. And when you do so, you can even keep on believing that you are a pillar of society, but that is not what I see.

Mike

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I feel if he is up front with his life style then people would respect him more then if others would find out else where. He is a good instructor and good with the kids. The honesty thing is just bugging me though.

John

Where I'm from such a confession would bring a quick end to the instructor's career.

We live in a society that has yet to accept Gays without condemnation. There are people who are convinced that homosexuals are out to "convert" their children to the homosexual lifestyle. Still others believe that homosexuals seek to seduce their children--lumping all homosexuals in with homosexual pedophiles. A great number of straight men feel threatened by Gay men. While all of these fears are unfounded, they do exist and prejudice a large segment of America's population.

It sounds, John, as if you buy into those myths of homosexuality. Your post almost gives the impression that you think it a communicable disease.

Pity.


Regards,


Steve

 

[TigerWoman]

What if you were homosexual and found out that your kids teacher was hetero? The situation is reversed. Homosexuality in itself is not a crime nor does it hurt others intentionally. This instructor is not a pedophile is he? His sexual preferences are private, you should not be concerned. I am a parent and nearly raised both of my children. I would never be concerned with a homosexual teacher. Its only when they have crossed the line to also be a pedophile. Anybody can cross that line. There are too many homosexuals to judge one person to that extreme without any facts or guilt present. In fact, I know one, a friend, who is openly gay, and is also very much a "pillar of society" and an asset to the community, a teacher of children, and very much a honorable man. Be honest with yourself. TW

 

[clfsean]

His life, his choices.

As long as he's not pushing a political/social agenda that may make people uncomfortable, then what does it matter?? As long as he's not HIV/AIDS positive (this goes for hetero practitioners as well) & putting himself in a position to bleed on the students, then what does it matter??

I'd rather have a gay man or woman (admitted or not) teaching my niece than a straight guy who may have pedphilic tendancies...

 

[someguy]

If asked then it's his buesness about if he is open or not. In some places it could bring large amounts of trouble to him.
Should he go around and be like hey every one guess what... That also is his buessness. He doesn't really need to though. He has no obligations to do so.
Wahoo I'm now a martial talk black belt.
*edited to brag about making 500 posts.

 

[loki09789]

Hello All
I came upon an interesting question and I did not know how to respond. Perhaps I could obtain some insight with your help. Recently I found out that a MA instructor I know happens to be Homosexual. He does not tell his students. Do you think he owes his students an explanation in his personal life. I believe his life should be lived the way he wants to but a certain honesty should exsit between him and his students. I feel if he is up front with his life style then people would respect him more then if others would find out else where. He is a good instructor and good with the kids. The honesty thing is just bugging me though.

John

Is this an honesty issue or discression and professionalism/appropriateness question? If I don't discuss my sexuality/activities/orientation in class as a hetero why should it be an honesty issue for a homosexual to practice the same level of professionalism.

Most workplace/institution/educational policies on harassment and appropriateness basically promote the idea that if it is not within the job description of the employees and/or will potentially make for an uncomfortable/hostile work environment it should not be discussed/acted out or promoted in any way in the work place/institution.

I really don't see how being gay or straight has anything to do with the job description of a martial arts instructor. If they can perform the job well and meet/exceed expectations/standards nothing else should matter. Same issues were discussed in the past about women, minorities, handicap.... who cares as long as they can do the job and act professionally.

I would say there are some heterosexual mainstream types out there that could use lessons in being appropriate/professional and discreet themselves.

 

[Mithios]

What the instructor doe's on his own time is no one's business. Unless it's some kind of criminal behavior. How doe's him being gay affect his teaching ability? It doe's not mean he will "turn" you'r child gay, or molest them!! If he's a good teacher, then that is what should matter. Mithios