Homosexuality - Nature, Nurture or Both?

[hardheadjarhead]

I don't believe anything other than The Lord Jesus created Adam, and Eve. Right there is the intent of design. One couple, not 2... I am sorry that you feel the need to call me ignorant, but the facts are what they are. We(men, and women) have been designed for one another. To go against that is by choice. Some where down the line the person made a choice to try out what was going through their mind. You do something enough, and its going to become second nature. Ask any recovered addict how they began their journey. I am willing to wager that in the begining it was just for kicks, but eventually they were overcome by their choice. Now it seems as if their ability to choose is gone.

Sorry I didn't get to this earlier, Donald. Up until last week I was working two jobs, and haven't had time to spend reading every post.

The nature of "choice" as homosexuality goes, insofar as you present it, basically states that we are all bisexual by nature. I do not feel I am bisexual by nature, nor that I could engage in homosexual behavior for "kicks." I would receive no "kicks" from it, no thrill, no erotic appeal. I can not become sexually stimulated by the sight of a well built good looking man sporting an erection. If I read your post correctly, you seem to think you have the innate potential to do so.

We have established (see above post) that in simpler organisms, such as the fruit fly, gender preference is in fact biological. The fruit fly doesn't make a choice...doesn't model their sexual behavior on other fruit flies...isn't seduced by deviant flies into making an aberrant sexual foray into fruity fruit fly behavior.

Moving up to more complex animals such as mammals we find a study at the university of Oregon showing that a strain of gay sheep has marked differences in the pre-optic nucleus of the hypothalmus...supporting that observation made of gay male men made by NIH researcher Simon LeVay in 1991. We can arrive at several (sometimes contrary) conclusions in response to this research:


The sheep were wooed into the homosexual lifestyle by other sheep who are following the Homosexual Agenda, or;

The sheep are turning away from God and God's plan and worhipping Baal and doing evil in the sight of the Lord, or;

The sheep had a distant, weak father figure and an overcontrolling ewe of a mother. Fearing Freudian castration and yearning for the paternal love of their father, they pervert their affection for their fathers by replacing it with erotic desire, or;

The sheep watched too much television and the influence of shows such as "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" and "Ellen" perverted their sense of right and wrong, or;

That lonely shepard in the hills that they spent too much time with was a tad light in his loafers, or;

A complex genetic/developmental process, possibly passed down through the X chromosome of the mother, led to the homosexual behavior.


Occam's razor just screams to be used here.



http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3008


Now, I note too that you believe in intelligent design of the universe and all its wonders. Debating that possibility is not an issue for this thread. However; indulge me in the following hypothetical if you would.

Given that you are a Christian, and given that you state that homosexuality is a choice...were you to choose homosexuality would you then be a Gay Christian who favors intelligent interior design?




Regards,



Steve

 

[Bammx2]

reincarnation.

 

[Bammx2]

I'm a 'religious' person as well. A Christian. I believe that God made us all as well. I believe in 'objective truth'. I don't believe that homosexuality is 'right'.
BUT:
I believe it's also morally/ethically wrong to try to make "moral" judgements for anyone beyond yourself or those you are fully accountable for. (Like our own children, before the age of accountability)

SO... this whole question of "Where does homosexuality come from" is irrelevent in my eyes. Unless I mean to force a moral judgement on someone else, I've got no use for such a debate. Like I've said before, I think that the 'source of homosexuality' is complex and probably (like the rest of life) a very dynamic rig of action/reaction....etc. Not some black and white "Nothin-but....xyz" cause.
But it just doesn't matter.
It just doesn't matter..
it just doesn't matter....
it just doesn't matter......

(movie reference anyone?? Hint: Early 80s, Bill Murry)

Your Brother
John

MEATBALLS!!!!

with wudy tha wabbit!

 

[Han-Mi]

An interesting thought I came up with while I was in high school debating this topic.

IF homosexuality is truly an imbalance of hormones or chemicals in the brain
and
IF depression is truly and imbalance of chemicals and hormones in the brain
and
depression is a disease that is treatable with chemical balancing drugs
THEN Homosexuality is a disease that can possibly be treated by a chemical balancing drug if the proper balancing combinaiton could be found.

I understand this is a calloused way of looking at it and that it may offend some people to think of homosexuality as a disease, but it is something that you have to consider if it is truly an affect of nature. I am sure there are extravigant differences between depression and Homosexuality, but it does have a certain correlation. I don't mean this to be insulting, just thought provoking.

Consider this, if you had a homosexual son or daughter, and there was a pill to make them heterosexual, would you try to get them to take it?

 

[sgtmac_46]

An interesting thought I came up with while I was in high school debating this topic.

IF homosexuality is truly an imbalance of hormones or chemicals in the brain
and
IF depression is truly and imbalance of chemicals and hormones in the brain
and
depression is a disease that is treatable with chemical balancing drugs
THEN Homosexuality is a disease that can possibly be treated by a chemical balancing drug if the proper balancing combinaiton could be found.

I understand this is a calloused way of looking at it and that it may offend some people to think of homosexuality as a disease, but it is something that you have to consider if it is truly an affect of nature. I am sure there are extravigant differences between depression and Homosexuality, but it does have a certain correlation. I don't mean this to be insulting, just thought provoking.

Consider this, if you had a homosexual son or daughter, and there was a pill to make them heterosexual, would you try to get them to take it?

Since sexual preference is much more complicated than a mere stray hormone, the "cure" would have to be far more radical and involve restructuring parts of the brain. So the real question is "if there is radical surgery that would "cure" homosexuality, but fundamentally alter the personality of the person, would you opt for it?

 

[hardheadjarhead]

An interesting thought I came up with while I was in high school debating this topic.

IF homosexuality is truly an imbalance of hormones or chemicals in the brain
and
IF depression is truly and imbalance of chemicals and hormones in the brain
and
depression is a disease that is treatable with chemical balancing drugs
THEN Homosexuality is a disease that can possibly be treated by a chemical balancing drug if the proper balancing combinaiton could be found.

I understand this is a calloused way of looking at it and that it may offend some people to think of homosexuality as a disease, but it is something that you have to consider if it is truly an affect of nature. I am sure there are extravigant differences between depression and Homosexuality, but it does have a certain correlation. I don't mean this to be insulting, just thought provoking.

Consider this, if you had a homosexual son or daughter, and there was a pill to make them heterosexual, would you try to get them to take it?

Depression might well be genetic in certain cases, which leads to a chemical imbalance. Homosexuality might well be genetic, but the expression of it is through specific neural "wiring," and it would not be defined as a disease in that regard. Prozac and Wellbutrin effect the levels of serotonin and epinephrine...they do not rewire synapses in the hypothalmus.

Homosexuality doesn't qualify as a pathology because homosexuals, as a general rule, do not feel badly about their orientation (they're often very well adjusted). They feel it is very natural, as we feel our heterosexuality to be very natural. Were society to accept them unconditionally, there would be no friction. If we eliminate the stigma of depression, people will still be depressed and unhappy. If we eliminate the stigma of homosexuality, people will still be homosexual, but nobody would be unhappy.

There is no prozac like-drug for the treatment of homosexuality, given it is very likely largely a function of the ol' hard drive. However; if my child were homosexual and wanted to be straight, and there were "magic pills" I'd get him the pills. The choice would have to be his, and he'd have to be of an age of maturity where he'd be able to make an informed decision. Again...if society didn't malign, discriminate, and censure homosexuals, he'd never have to make that decision.

Were no such magic pill available (and they will not be, assuredly), and an amniocentisis and genetic test showed your child would likely grow up homosexual, would you abort it or put it up for adoption?


Regards,


Steve

 

[shesulsa]

You might also want to remember, HanMi, that institutions and mental hospitals are FULL - overflowing, in fact - with people with chemical disorders that medicine can't help. Come to think of it, so are the streets.

If you're into science, I read once that there are over 100 hormones in the human body, only a handful of which medical science has deemed "important." That is, important enough to pay attention to. So I have to ask myself how many of these people who aren't being helped on meds have an "unimportant hormone imbalance?" And why hasn't there been any tests designed to test the levels of these "unimportant hormones?"

But ... if they are functional, socially responsible, productive individuals who give a positive return to society, then ... I still just don't understand other people's problems with them.

 

[hwarang]

Yea i think its a Bit of both because They've proved that homosexual men's brains react in a similar way to womens when they are stimulated "naked dudes" but at the same time their are people that were made like this... Heres somethign that should get you all very angry. did you know that the government pays for sex change operations?
now i dont really care what two people do in their own home but yea thats stupid

 

[Han-Mi]

OK I get it.... I have not researched this at all, and neither had the other lazy teenagers when I used presented the thought.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Heres somethign that should get you all very angry. did you know that the government pays for sex change operations?
now i dont really care what two people do in their own home but yea thats stupid

I'd be upset with that if I thought it were true.

If there were such a thing, traditionalfamilyvalues.org would surely have jumped on that. They report that the IRS will give a deduction for the surgery, but don't mention that the government will pay for it. I "googled" it and couldn't find any indication anywhere that the government pays for that sort of thing. While absence of evidence doesn't indicate evidence of absence, I'll continue with my skepticism until provided with more compelling evidence.

Consider this, there is a long going battle over funding for abortions by Medicaid. Abortions are not allowed in military hospitals. I find it difficult to believe that a Republican administration and a Republican House and Senate are going to allow funding for gender reassignment.

Incidentally, gender dysphoria isn't homosexuality. It is something far different. Homosexuals usually prefer the gender they're born with, just as heterosexuals do. Occasionally a transexual will want gender reassignment to the opposite sex...yet retain their attraction to the sex to which their reassigned. In other words, a woman might feel she's a gay man trapped in a woman's body. This is rare, but highlights that gender identity and sexual orientation are at times separate.

Note too that transvestism is typically a heterosexual sexual fetish and not related to gender dysphoria.


Regards,


Steve

 

[heretic888]

OK I get it.... I have not researched this at all, and neither had the other lazy teenagers when I used presented the thought.

Quite possibly.

Given that you cited no academic or scholastic sources (let alone articles from a peer-reviewed publication), have not evinced an in-deph understanding of human neurology or biopsychology, do not seem to actually understand the criteria by which the APA classifies phenomena as "mental diseases", and all of the intellectual minds you claim to discuss this with most likely lack a full high school education....

Quite possibly.

But, then again, that's not really the issue here, is it? When one's arguments and ideas are debunked on the basis of solid research (which Steve has cited, directly or indirectly), you do not interpret that as an ad hominem against you personally. To do so is to venture into the realm of logical fallacy, plain and simple.

:asian:

 

[heretic888]

Given that you are a Christian, and given that you state that homosexuality is a choice...were you to choose homosexuality would you then be a Gay Christian who favors intelligent interior design?

Hah!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: