Hollywood propaganda, for the wrong side

[Twin Fist]

did Depalma show them being tried and convicted?

better question, why make this movie and NOT show them getting convicted of the crime UNLESS your goal is to make america look like ***?

 

[Twin Fist]

Here is a quote from the jackass himself

"De Palma himself has commented "the right wing is gonna come at this film. I mean, I've done something that is, it just can't be done. You can't ever say anything critical of the troops."[citation needed] He argued that the film provides a realistic portrait of U.S. troops and how "the presentation of our troops has been whitewashed" by media. "

got that? this is how he sees teh troops, all of them.

so yes, he is, IMO a traitor AND a moronic coward

that being said, i loved Carrie and The Fury

 

[granfire]

did Depalma show them being tried and convicted?

better question, why make this movie and NOT show them getting convicted of the crime UNLESS your goal is to make america look like ***?

Casualties of war?
It has been a while since I saw it, but I do believe it showed in the end the sentences they all got.

 

[Twin Fist]

Casualties of war?
It has been a while since I saw it, but I do believe it showed in the end the sentences they all got.

I was talking about redacted Gran

 

[granfire]

Here is a quote from the jackass himself

"De Palma himself has commented "the right wing is gonna come at this film. I mean, I've done something that is, it just can't be done. You can't ever say anything critical of the troops."[citation needed] He argued that the film provides a realistic portrait of U.S. troops and how "the presentation of our troops has been whitewashed" by media. "

got that? this is how he sees teh troops, all of them.

so yes, he is, IMO a traitor AND a moronic coward

that being said, i loved Carrie and The Fury

Oh, come on. You think that the presentation of the soldiers in movies like D-Day was accurate? Heck, Even Sands of Ivo Jima has them looking more like they are going out for Sunday dinner. (and don't knock those movies, cherished holiday tradition around here. Nothing says Merry Christmas like a Midway marathon)

fact is, warfare is not easy on the human mind. What a flippin boring story if all participants are knights in shining armor. And it's not traitorous to pick a story that shows those in uniform who do not conduct themselves as we see fit.

But I guess you are taking the Southern approach: If you don't like reality, you just think it pretty?

 

[Twin Fist]

attack the post, not the poster gran, you are getting close to a TOS violation

did you read what i said? in his OWN WORDS, DePalma tells us that he sees the troops as raping murderers. And since he refused to show the trials, that America condones those acts.

that is traitorous.

 

[elder999]

attack the post, not the poster gran, you are getting close to a TOS violation

did you read what i said? in his OWN WORDS, DePalma tells us that he sees the troops as raping murderers. And since he refused to show the trials, that America condones those acts.

that is traitorous.

Supposedly, Depalma was told by lawyers that he had to be very careful in referencing-or not referencing the real events.

Speaking of the real events, though-five U.S. soldiers rape and murder a 14 year old girl and her family. Sounds like plenty of inspiration for terrorism right there-the useful illustration of a fictional documentary is just icing on the cake.....the fact is that the events portrayed did happen, and the people inspired for jihad don't give a rat's *** if the perpetrators were sentenced to 110 years in jail or not......not in the least because they weren't subjected to penalties under shariah.

 

[granfire]

attack the post, not the poster gran, you are getting close to a TOS violation

did you read what i said? in his OWN WORDS, DePalma tells us that he sees the troops as raping murderers. And since he refused to show the trials, that America condones those acts.

that is traitorous.

Huh? What?

Where did I attack you?

But yeah, I hear that kind of thinking around here, too. The 'if you are not with us, you must be against us'

Well, you seemed to have quoted Wiki, which btw asked - indirectly - for a citation of said statement.

He has,as free citizen of this great nation the freedom to say what he wishes. Just the same way you can call him a traitor (but I am not sure if you can legally do that, since he has not been convicted of a crime, it could be considered libel/slander)

Point is: If you don't like the message (ironic how you tell me not to attack the messenger...) send your own! why do you think I posted http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94333 here and not in the library?!

It is always easier to criticize those who do. But instead of just pointing fingers get busy yourself.

War is one ugly business. We managed to clean it up a lot, but in the end there is still blood and guts spilled. And frankly, the picture of the enemy that is put before the troops does make it vaguely acceptable to treat all of that kind with like methods.
Certainly a trained psychologist can explain it much better.

You are attacking a story teller. Don't like the story, don't look at it.

 

[billc]

Well, with all the good that the U.S. Army has done to liberate people around the world, the security they have helped to provide around the world at great sacrifice to themselves and their families, it is easy to see why Depalma would concentrate on the minority of bad actors found in the military. Especially at a time when these men are fighting, dying and being horribly wounded to kill really evil people, to keep these evil people from hurting more innocent people. You may hate bush, think that we went to war for oil and all the tinfoil hat stuff you want. These men and women deserve better from the people they are protecting.

 

[billc]

This column about the shooting in Germany is by Brent Bozell. He discusses how little attention the shooting was given in the mainstream press.

http://www.mrc.org/bozellcolumns/columns/2011/20110309020443.aspx

from the column:

These journalists have lost a connection to the war on Islamic extremism and the troops fighting in Afghanistan. The Washington Post recently published a touching story of how Gen. John Kelly went to St. Louis and delivered a “passionate and at times angry speech about the military's sacrifices and its troops' growing sense of isolation from society.”

He told the crowd “Their struggle is your struggle...If anyone thinks you can somehow thank them for their service, and not support the cause for which they fight -- our country -- these people are lying to themselves....More important, they are slighting our warriors and mocking their commitment to this nation.”

Gen. Kelly did not tell the crowd he’d lost his 29-year-old son Robert in Afghanistan four days earlier. He became the most senior U.S. military officer to lose a son or daughter in Iraq or Afghanistan. Like many in the military, he fears the American public is unaware of the price that military families pay in one of the longest periods of sustained combat in U.S. history.

This passage underlined the problem: “President Obama devoted only six sentences to the war in Afghanistan in his State of the Union address in January. The 25-second standing ovation that lawmakers lavished on the troops lasted almost as long as the president's war remarks

 

[Twin Fist]

gran,
as I understand the laws of slander/libel, public persona's are more open to such things and are in fact less protected, that said, that is why i said IN MY OPINION he was a traitor.

Here is the thing, What Depalma did, was dispicable, IMO, and he did it IN TIME OF WAR, which is a CRIME.

He gave comfort to the enemy, as I see it. That makes him a traitor. NO ONE in america pretty much saw this movie, cuz theaters rightly wouldnt show it..

but you can bet your *** the radical islamics have seen it.

and it inspires hatred of the troops

thats down right un-american, IMO

leaving out the fact that they were punished makes it look WORSE, IMO. Dont you agree?

 

[granfire]

gran,
as I understand the laws of slander/libel, public persona's are more open to such things and are in fact less protected, that said, that is why i said IN MY OPINION he was a traitor.

Here is the thing, What Depalma did, was dispicable, IMO, and he did it IN TIME OF WAR, which is a CRIME.

He gave comfort to the enemy, as I see it. That makes him a traitor. NO ONE in america pretty much saw this movie, cuz theaters rightly wouldnt show it..

but you can bet your *** the radical islamics have seen it.

and it inspires hatred of the troops

thats down right un-american, IMO

leaving out the fact that they were punished makes it look WORSE, IMO. Dont you agree?

Obviously, I don't agree with you on many levels (and I don't think 'opinion' is a workable defense in court).

the label of 'un-american' is a favorite of those who want to bully those who disagree into conforming.
White washing war crimes should also be unamerican, and frankly, unless they would have shot those fellows on the town square where the victims resided I don't think anybody there noticed there had been a court martial and a sentence handed down.
Raping and murdering civilinas ought to be thoroughly unamerican. Those guys did a lot more damage to the troops than a movie maker of whom you say yourself nobody saw it.


Times of war, oye...

See, this whole war thing is one iffy subject. It was unamerican, too, to speak up against the validity of the reasons for the invasion, too.
I consider it more american to speak up when things are not right.
You chose your language, I chose mine, he chose film.

In any case, with little more than a cheap video editing program and a bit of footage from 'Call of Duty' 'Helo' and what have you, one can compose a pretty convincing video were you have to do at least one double take to make sure it's not real people. Better equipment (and sources) give you better results.
maybe the film maker should sue them for copy right infringements? (now that would be ultra american)

You are angry at him for showing that the people in uniform are fallible human beings. And he is unapologenic for it.
It's not like you can dispute that the incident happened. And you might not agree that he did not tell the absolute end of the story...I don't think you can force him. It's not like that is a completely new phenomenon in the movie business either. 'based on' or 'inspired by' a true story does not usually mean it is the true story.

And let's face it, radicals are hardly ever swayed by reason. Or they would not be radical....

 

[Twin Fist]

he told a story, but didnt tell the WHOLE story, just the parts that make us look bad.

will you even admit that?

 

[granfire]

he told a story, but didnt tell the WHOLE story, just the parts that make us look bad.

will you even admit that?

I do believe I said so....

But wait, no, I did not say 'us'.

Then again...if somebody who did not know anything about America was to watch TV, they were left to think that we are either morons (thank you Disney and Nick) or homicidal maniacs (thaks to any other network)

But yeah, us, as in fanatics don't care to differentiate...(but 'we' tend to do the same to 'them', too)

 

[Twin Fist]

fine, then we have a starting point.

he told an incomplete story, and just the part that makes us look the worst

possible motivation?

cuz he really thinks that way about american troops

he statements back that up.

ok, so he hates the troops. Nothing illegal about that. But making that movie created and inspired more hate, and it cost lives.

thats dispicable.

IMO

 

[granfire]

I am not speculating on what his motivations are.

Maybe they were more honorable than the intentions of those who kind of hushed 'the incident'

But frankly, I am a cynical B**** when it comes to those things. Human nature sucks, in either direction. I have long since made my piece with it. I can't safe the world, so why bother trying (I spend my efforts closer to home)
People do bad things, some people are nasty and revel in other people's misery.
Heck, my own Sister-in-law will only call my house if she has bad news of some sort...

I think the incident gave enough ammunition to the extremists. Not having to make their own footage was just the icing.

You are shooting at the messenger, instead of pointing at the real perpetrators who soiled the honor of the uniform by committing that gruesome act.
And frankly, while I do not support capital punishment, having these guys sentenced and executed would have probably gone a long way towards credibility of the leadership. It's not like they have not thrown the lower ranks under the bus for complying with orders given by their superiors! This was something you would look at in the states as capital murder...

 

[Twin Fist]

the soldiers killed in germany by that extreemist nutbag were not guilty, yet they died

 

[granfire]

the soldiers killed in germany by that extreemist nutbag were not guilty, yet they died

the 3000 people of 9/11 (with the exception a the few in the Pentagon maybe) were not involved in Middle Eastern Policy either...

Then again Iraq was not involved in that attack either...so there. It's not exactly a new thing, hitting the wrong target because they are loosely connected to the real thing, just because one can't lay hands on the real thing.

And no, that's the cynical B. speaking again. Things are the way they are.
The movie make did not pull the trigger either. So what' is the beef you are having with him?
He depicted a real event and his images were abused.
Chances are the real even had already spread through the ranks of the extremists, long before the bodies were even cold, in all likely hood magnified, as those things go. The movie just provided good visuals.

The fact that the punishment was not included? Bohoo, they are where now? Sitting in Leavenworth...in relative comfort. You think that is going to satisfy anybody from where the victims lived?
I am sure you'd love to have the shooters from Franfurt sent to the US to stand trial and get the needle...

 

[Twin Fist]

and the radical islamic nutbags? do they KNOW they we arrested trried and convicted those animals?

not if DePalma has anything to say about it.

clearly you dont see the wrongness of his actions, and that is that. I wont waste your time anymore trying to get you to see what you dont want to see.

 

[granfire]

and the radical islamic nutbags? do they KNOW they we arrested trried and convicted those animals?

not if DePalma has anything to say about it.

clearly you dont see the wrongness of his actions, and that is that. I wont waste your time anymore trying to get you to see what you dont want to see.

LOL, sorry I won't be converted.

(But I am pretty sure the convictions, if the news was spread only served to fuel the fires)