High Kicks to the Head

[bluemtn]

But the question is not whether high kicks are practical in a general sparring situation, TKD_G. The question is whether they are useful in a close-quarters self-defense situation against an unsought attack by a dangerous, but likely street-savvy assailant who's probably not much more than a foot away from you, and when every other avenue of escape from the situation has failed. I can snap off a roundhouse kick to something like my own head height, and I'm 6' tall. But not when the target's 14" or less away from me hand has just grabbed my shirt or thown a haymaker at me from that distance.

When things are close in, lower kicks and knees are probably your best bet. Then again, that's my training- don't throw out all high kicks. However, if it works for you, then it works for you. I'm not saying it's just flat out wrong, it's just my personal prefference, it just isn't what I'd do when it's all up close and personal.

However, like Kacey said, if you don't train it, then it's a good chance it wouldn't. To each his own...

 

[Kacey]

Ah, but you see, f2f, Kacey wasn't describing, so far as I can see, a kick to the head when you're a foot away from an assailant who's grabbed or thrown a punch at you! That's the difference. We aren't discussing the feasibility of a kick to the head per se. We're discussing the feasibility of doing a standing split, in an upright position, on a bad surface surrounded by tables/trashcans/jostling bodies/etc. in the fraction of second you need to terminate the fight. I don't recall anyone actually describing how to do that. And that's one of the reasons why my many books, written by people who have expertise in this particular area—practical, realistic self-defense—say that it's a bad, bad thing to try to do. You see, they're not talking about whether a description is possible—you can describe anything. What they're talking about is execution.

Actually, I was describing a short range (within 12-16 inches) kick to the head - assuming, of course, that you consider the underside of the chin to be part of the head - and I do. Terry's attacker was within arm's length - with his arm bent - when Terry kicked him. To do a high kick, you have to kick straight up, so while it may not be 170 degrees, it is at least 160 - especially at the distance Terry was dealing with. It worked for him... and he was hardly a stranger to conflict; Terry was a bail bondsman when I knew him, as well as a Marine serving in the Reserves; I lost contact with him when he was activated and sent to serve in Desert Storm.

Please don't take this wrong - I have a great deal of respect for your opinion and experience - but please don't speak for me.

 

[searcher]

ONe aspect that is often overlooked when looking at head kicking is them being a little to effective. I have the flexibility, speed, power, technique, and control to hit somebody in the head in a non-threatening environment. I am not so sure that I could keep it from over-doing the job. I am scared to death of having a non life threatening encounter that leads to an altercation and having such an adrenaline dump that the control of the technique goes out the window. I don't think anything could be worse then killing or seriously hurting someone when the situation did not call for it.

Does this make sense? Or am I just rambling?

 

[exile]

However, like Kacey said, if you don't train it, then it's a good chance it wouldn't. To each his own...

Well, as I say, I do train high kicks, probably more than any other tech, for accuracy, balance and force delivery—as a drill, in short. And if someone actually does understand the inherent dangers of high kicking to the head and decides to use it anyway, I would be the last to try to dissuage them! I've no doubt that some people can make it work. But take a look at Kosho's last post here on the `limited poomse' thread. And those where cases where the kicks actually connected! There are plenty of recorded cases where a gunshot to chest failed to kill the injured victim. Does this in general mean that you want to receive a gunshot to the chest?

Actually, I was describing a short range (within 12-16 inches) kick to the head - assuming, of course, that you consider the underside of the chin to be part of the head - and I do. Terry's attacker was within arm's length - with his arm bent - when Terry kicked him. To do a high kick, you have to kick straight up, so while it may not be 170 degrees, it is at least 160 - especially at the distance Terry was dealing with. It worked for him... and he was hardly a stranger to conflict; Terry was a bail bondsman when I knew him, as well as a Marine serving in the Reserves; I lost contact with him when he was activated and sent to serve in Desert Storm.

Please don't take this wrong - I have a great deal of respect for your opinion and experience - but please don't speak for me.

Sorry, Kacey, I misread the distance involved in the post. The fact that your friend Terry was obliged to kick somewhere within close range of a split is just what I was saying: anyone who wants to do what you reported him as doing will have to do the same thing. One of the points that the people who I cited in my previous posts keep coming back to is that you have very little margin for error in this kind of technique. They are concerned with robust self-defense applications, those with enough of a margin of error that you don't have to be perfect, or capable of extraordinary athletic achievements, to execute the technique. Their point, if I'm reading them correctly, is that it is extremely unlikely that most people who find themselves in that kind of danger, even those who've trained MAs serioiusly for a long time, are going to be capable of that kind of performance. Again—this is getting to be thrice-chewed gum—exactly the same kind of thing can be said about a 720º flying back kick: there must be someone on the face of planet Earth who could do that in a streetfight. But very few MAists, I suspect could, and the same kind of inherent problems with that tech hold for the nearly vertical kick that your friend Terry had to do.

I've seen wushu performers literally turn themselves into knots; I know that there are people capable, by a combination of genetic good fortune and intense training, of almost almost any action you can visualize for the human body. But the original context of this discussion was the practicality of high kicks to the head as a general method of self-defense. If no one minds, let me quote the original post that started all this:

It was not different in my school. You described precisely the type of techniques I was speaking of in my earlier replies. Techniques that are contained in the forms and not hidden. However, non of these techniques are fight enders. You may poke a man in the eye or rip at his groin but as long as he maintains consciousness he maintains the ability to cause you harm. The only way to decisively end the altercation is to strike him in the head with a powerful blow, hence the high kicks in TKD.

The claim here is that `the high kicks to the head', which were introduced as a result of tournament competition starting in the 1960s and became more and more a marked feature of the art, were actually designed for self-defense application, and that the high kicks therefore have to be regarded as techniques of choice for self-defense. Given what I suspect is the minute percentage of MAists who could duplicate your friend Terry's performance, the assertion here is that a marginal technique accessible to only a small number of practitioners should instead by regarded as a standby, in preference to the control/striking combinations that the TKD forms (where all kicks were originally low) encode. This is exactly what experts in self-defense application identify—I think correctly—as, in Abernethy's phrasing, as `suicidal'.

 

[Marginal]

I can't rule out high kicks in a SD situation no matter how many times I read that old Kenpo chestnut "I'll kick 'em in the head... Once they're on the ground!"

Kind of depends on the context though. One nice thing about high kicks is they're usually not expected in a close situation. If they're not telegraphed, they can come up right in an attacker's blind spot, with the end result of the kick hitting flush on the jaw or temple unopposed. (Then the major downside is breaking their fall before they dash their brains out on the pavement.)

If they're outside close range, it gets loads easier to react to and the odds of landing the kick safely decrease.

OTOH, if a knee is available etc, the path of least resistance and risk is usually the better idea, and more likely more probable.

 

[Kacey]

Exile, you can believe what you want - but that high kick is a standard kick from the ITF curriculum, and it is taught as a head high only kick - at 7th gup - and in 15 years of instructing, I haven't had anyone yet who couldn't do it, including plenty of people who cannot do the splits, because the kick is dependent on speed and momentum, involving driving the knee up and then allowing the foot to follow the knee upward. It is this momentum - not flexibility, that allows people to kick that high - and Terry was not particularly flexible.

As I said, you can believe what you want - what your references say, since that seems to carry more weight for you than what practitioners say - but I could add quite a few other examples. Since I don't particularly want to start an argument in which I compare my experiences to your reference books, I'm going to stop here and go to bed.

 

[Kosho Gakkusei]

Terry placed 1 high kick (like a front kick, but the target is parallel to the ground - and it's a short range kick, really only effective within 18" or so) under the first guy's chin; the first guy was unconscious before he hit the sidewalk. Terry whirled around to hit the second guy, but he was already gone.

His story was corroborated by a woman who was just leaving a nearby office building, who saw the whole thing and ducked back in to call the police.

As I recall, Terry was 5'9" or 5'10" - from the description he gave, the guy he knocked out was about 6'.

We have an apparrent scenario where the high kick worked. My posts have not been to say that a high kick won't work but that for the reasons I've mentioned on this thread & the TKD forms thread, I don't think it is the strategy of choice. I practice kicking high to develop balance, flexibility, and power and will use the high kick if the opening is present. What your friend had was the element of surprise. His attackers did not expect him to defend himself this is more critical than the choice of weapon he made.

Now I'm trying to envision the plausability with the distances you mentioned. 18" is not very far away. 18" is about the length from a man's elbow to his finger tips. When a man's face is 18" from mine I can connect solidly with an elbow by simply rotating my hips. I'm about 5'9" to 5'10". I can get the height you talk about with that kick but the distance is really about an arms length or 30". The closest high kick I can do is my crescent kick which ends up roughly 22" - 24" from my face. I can adjust my targeting by leaning my upper body but neither of these fits your description. The kick your describing with the target your describing would have to be roughly a standing split. An impressive physical feat in it's own right. This is not to say this was beyond your friend's abilities.

The problem I'm having is coming up with a plausible trajectory for a front kick at that range. Even taking to consideration the attacker moving inwards to the target range your friend's kick would have been jammed by the attackers torso and could not have made it to the head at that distance. To make the kick a knee rotation would have had to take place which would actually change the kick to an inverted upward roundhouse (even more impressive) but that's not what was described. Although, at the 30" range the arc that the foot needs to perform this kick would be plausible but that takes us out of close range fighting because the hit takes place just as the attacker comes within kicking range.

If I'm thinking wrong, show me a video of someone using this kicking technique. I request the use of a ruler to place a focus mitt exactly 18" from the performers face held horizontally by a spotter standing directly behind the mitt. Figuring about an 8" focus mitt this would place the spotter about 26" away from the performer. If the performer can perform a front kick without his kick getting jammed by the location of the spotter than I stand corrected.

I believe your friend's story. Not disputing your anecdote, just anylizing it. I'm wondering if the distance was exagerated or underestimated.

_Don Flatt

 

[Marginal]

The kick arcs. THe higher it goes, the shorter the effective distance becomes. If the attacker was closing in, and the kick was timed right it should work THe way the kick's chambered though, the knee rotation occurs when you've gotten your knee up near your chest. Any sooner and speed and power is lost.

 

[exile]

The kick arcs. THe higher it goes, the shorter the effective distance becomes. If the attacker was closing in, and the kick was timed right it should work THe way the kick's chambered though, the knee rotation occurs when you've gotten your knee up near your chest. Any sooner and speed and power is lost.

I don't see it, M.

So, you've pulled your knee so it's flat against your chest, right? So your kick now snaps up from a position where your lower leg is parallel to your upper leg to one where it's reasonably close to 180º away. But when I try doing that myself, it's just a simple fact that before I can get up to the target height, my arcing lower leg has to move away well over a foot from the upper leg tight against my body. I have fairly thick thigh muscles, but even if your upper leg were only 4" through the beam, adding another 14" or so—the absolute minimum—is still going to get your foot colliding somewhere with your attacker's midsection, no? Because we're assuming typical CQ fighting distances of a foot or less between your body and his body.

So I'm with Kosho_G here; I'm just not seeing the trajectory you're describing.

Exile, you can believe what you want - but that high kick is a standard kick from the ITF curriculum, and it is taught as a head high only kick - at 7th gup - and in 15 years of instructing, I haven't had anyone yet who couldn't do it, including plenty of people who cannot do the splits, because the kick is dependent on speed and momentum, involving driving the knee up and then allowing the foot to follow the knee upward. It is this momentum - not flexibility, that allows people to kick that high - and Terry was not particularly flexible.

As I said, you can believe what you want - what your references say, since that seems to carry more weight for you than what practitioners say - but I could add quite a few other examples. Since I don't particularly want to start an argument in which I compare my experiences to your reference books, I'm going to stop here and go to bed.

Kacey, you seem to think I am saying it is not possible to execute a high kick at relatively close quarters. For the reasons that Kosho and I have posted, I think it is very difficult to execute a high kick to the head against an opponent who is close enough to be gripping you, say—but I don't think it's impossible for the average practitioner to learn to kick high! Nor are my `references', as you refer to them, saying that—and these references are practitioners themselves, a number of them extremely high ranking karateka (Iain Abernethy, Geoff Thompson, Peter Consterdine, eg. ) who are moreover practitioners of a very hard-edged combat-oriented martial art, and in many cases put themselves in harm's way for a living. So the distinction you are drawing between my `references' on the one hand and `practitioners' on the other creates a misleading impression.

What is at issue is not the possibility of executing high kicks, even high kicks at relatively close range, but the practicality of training for these very risky, difficult moves whose execution at CQ ranges requires, however you slice it, a practitioner's kicking leg to reach a position very near a standing split, whether driven by momentum or anything else, in the context of a streetfight. The inherent risks and difficulty of executing such kicks in a `live' situation of great danger, which a street fight normally is, are the reasons my `references', who are trying to get MAists to utilize their arts for SD in the safest and most practical way, urge them not to pursue this kind of technique. I would give the same advice. If you think I'm mistaken in doing so... well, I guess we'll have to agree to differ.

 

[kidswarrior]

ONe aspect that is often overlooked when looking at head kicking is them being a little to effective. I have the flexibility, speed, power, technique, and control to hit somebody in the head in a non-threatening environment. I am not so sure that I could keep it from over-doing the job. I am scared to death of having a non life threatening encounter that leads to an altercation and having such an adrenaline dump that the control of the technique goes out the window. I don't think anything could be worse then killing or seriously hurting someone when the situation did not call for it.

Does this make sense? Or am I just rambling?

Since I also seem to be tangential to this thread, searcher, and no one else has responded to you, I'll butt in and do so.

I know exactly what you mean, and I think that adrenaline dump is a very scary thing. It's not an exact science, we don't know how our bodies/minds will react on any given occasion or what vital point we might inadvertently reach in a dark, slippery-surface environment. Nor do we know our own limits at times. Case in point: Using only my fists, at the age of 19 I came close to killing a man who did not deserve it--a beating, probably; death, no way--I'm not God, not my purview. It was only because one of his family members came out of the house, saw the horror show, and began screaming that 'woke' me from the adrenaline stupor/rage. If not for that, the course of many lives would have been different.

So, yeah, I think you have a very valid concern. If fists can do what I did, imagine much-stronger legs, encased in shoes or boots, spurred on by adrenaline, and all the accidental factors of timing, distance, poor vision, bad footing, that could cause just one kick to end tragically.

Doubt that anyone really involved in this thread has read this but in the event they have, my apologies for going OT. Searcher and I now return the thread to your enlightening debate. :asian:

 

[Sensei Payne]

Personally...I am not a big fan of High kicks....I like to kick to the legs..

 

[exile]

Personally...I am not a big fan of High kicks....I like to kick to the legs..

Much bigger targets, much easier to hit at very close range, much less chance of slipping or losing balance, much less vulnerability at full extension, lots of weak point targets... and if they can't stand, they can't fight. I'm with you!

 

[Kosho Gakkusei]

The kick arcs. THe higher it goes, the shorter the effective distance becomes. If the attacker was closing in, and the kick was timed right it should work THe way the kick's chambered though, the knee rotation occurs when you've gotten your knee up near your chest. Any sooner and speed and power is lost.

That's one heck of a timing you talk about. I was under the impression that in the story Kacey related the attacker was walking not running towards Terry.

Let me give further points on the body mechanics associated that make me question not the validity of the incident but rather the distances that are being described.

This morning I'm playing with a tape measure.

Checking my height. 69.5" or 5' 9 1/2".
My proportions, shorter legs longer torso. 30" inseam.
If I raise my knee to about knee height. 16" projection from hip not accounting for any hip rotation.
If I raise my knee to chest level as close as physiology will allow due to the density of my thigh there is still a 12" projection of the knee, again not accounting for any hip ratation.
Extending the full leg at hip level the projection is 34 1/2"(flat footed), also not accounting for hip rotation.
For me kicking the height described under the chin of a 6' tall man - approx. nose height the distance to the ball of my foot is again 30" projection from my body.
Forcing myself into a standing split with my foot reaching that height the projection of my heel is 26" the distance from the ball of my foot is 22", again without hip rotation.
Now using these distances let's judge the feasability of the arc your describing. The closest projection of the knee to chest level was 12". The knee becomes the fulcrum to 21" lever (distance from bent knee to bottom of foot). The furthest projection of my arc now becomes roughly 30" to 31". Now for this kick to work the man must be moving in at such a speed as his body is more than 30" after I chamber yet his head is 22" away by the time I extend the kick. Let's say my kick clocks in at a measley 40mph (Chuck Norris' clocks @ 70mph) that means that my 3' arc is accomplished in .05 seconds. For the timing to be proper my opponent must move forward 4" to 6" in the same time frame - .05 seconds. This is roughly 15mph, which is humanly possible but hardly walking speed. Also, take into consideration that to accomplish this technique I will be balancing on 1 foot for at least .1 seconds (account for chamber to extension to retraction to replacement) while my opponent is closing in on me at 22 feet per second. Again all these distances are factored without hip projection which is essential to generate power!!

Now using the natural projection of the front high kick is a little more feasable if I catch the opponent at the 30" to 36" range (figure an additional 6" for hip projection). He can be moving at a normal walking pace of 4mph to 6mph and I'd catch him just as he comes into range. But I'd hardly consider this a close range technique since the extension of my fist without hip projection is only 22". Again the key element here would be surprise and in the story told the attackers were not expecting him to defend himself since his hands were full.

To me range is a key factor in the usage of any technique.

_Don Flatt

 

[qi-tah]

I don't see it, M.

So, you've pulled your knee so it's flat against your chest, right? So your kick now snaps up from a position where your lower leg is parallel to your upper leg to one where it's reasonably close to 180º away. But when I try doing that myself, it's just a simple fact that before I can get up to the target height, my arcing lower leg has to move away well over a foot from the upper leg tight against my body. I have fairly thick thigh muscles, but even if your upper leg were only 4" through the beam, adding another 14" or so—the absolute minimum—is still going to get your foot colliding somewhere with your attacker's midsection, no? Because we're assuming typical CQ fighting distances of a foot or less between your body and his body.

So I'm with Kosho_G here; I'm just not seeing the trajectory you're describing.

Just a hypothisis... if you weren't that flexible (or even if you were) you might have to arc your back somewhere between lifting your knee and unloading with your foot - perhaps this is the explaination of how Kacey's mate was able to successfully strike at that range? (The trajectory of the foot would then start at somewhere closer to horizontal than it would if he'd been standing upright)

I've always arced my back when front kicking, though stomach/diaphram is the highest i'll get!

 

[Kacey]

Just to clear up a few questions: high kick not a front kick, it does not follow the same trajectory, and yes, it starts by bringing the knee as high as possible so the foot can then move up in a straight line - which is how I can kick above my head with it - with power and focus, despite all those who say it cannot happen. No, I don't believe Terry exaggerated or mistook the distances.

Many of you have decided that high kicks are ineffective, and therefore practice them for balance and flexibility (if at all) rather than for effective use, and that's your choice. That does not, however, necessarily mean that they are ineffective - only that they are ineffective for you. I return to what I said previously in this thread, which most of you seem to have ignored in your desire to prove me wrong, because in your own experience you know high kicks don't work - well, my experience is different, and isn't that what we're trying to do here, expand our knowledge by comparing our various experiences?

Like any other technique, high kicks work better for some people than others; if they work for you (and I know plenty of people they work for - me included, for some kicks) - GREAT! If they don't work for you, but they are part of your MA, learn them, improve them as best they can, and gain strength and flexibility from the practice... and maybe, someday, they will work. Maybe they won't - but they won't if you don't try.

Also like any other technique, if you tell yourself high kicks don't work, and therefore don't practice them - or don't practice them as if they work - then they won't. Everyone has techniques they prefer - techniques that work for them for whatever reason - and they tend to practice those techniques the most, and therefore those techniques continue to get better, and work better, than the techniques they don't like and therefore don't practice as often or as hard.

 

[MJS]

Not to sound as if I am singling you out MJS, I have read several of your post and find your conduct respectable.

Thanks for the compliment.

I mean no insult, I'm merely trying to make a point. Is it your preference not to kick to the head or is it that you lack the years of extensive and specific training required in order to consistently and effectively land a powerful kick to the head?

Lack of years? Not likely, as I've been training for 21yrs., which IMHO, has provided me with quite a bit of time to learn how to kick properly. 2 of the arts I train in, Kenpo and Arnis, are both known for their low line kicks. As I said in my first post, during sparring sessions, I've pulled off many high kicks. Keep in mind again, as I said, this was during sparring and while wearing a loose fitting gi. If I get countered or make a mistake, I'm not in any danger, compared to defending myself on the street.

Additionally, keep in mind, some people are naturally not flexable. This is not due to not stretching, but just body genetics. As I said, it has nothing to do with not being able to do it, its my choice not to. If a high kick is not done carefully, it can and will be telegraphed. A skilled fighter will take advantage of that.

Far too often people who feel compelled to criticize a particular method don't have the experience with that method needed to offer a meaningful critique. They base their opinion on what they do, and if they don't do it, it must be wrong, period. This is not the humility I would expect from a competent MAist. It reminds me of the arrogant statements heard before BJJ became mainstream, " A karateka will always defeat a Judo player," or "grappling is for a game, karate is for a fight." I think we all can appreciate the folly of such declarative statements. Sadly it seems the like will never end.

Thanks, Foot2Face

So you think I was criticizing high kickers or TKD which is known for high kicks? Sir, I suggest you re-read my post, as I've said nothing negative about either high kickers or TKD. You state that you've read many of my posts. If thats the case, then you must've seen me say many times that all arts have something to offer. Additionally, I've stated many times that if I can borrow something that I find useful and add it to my bag of tricks, that is what I do.

All that being said, as I stated originally, its my choice to not do them. If the opportunity presented itself, I'd take advantage of it, but to limit myself to just high kicks, when there are a number of good targets below the belt is not something I choose to do.

Mike

 

[Kosho Gakkusei]

Just to clear up a few questions: high kick not a front kick, it does not follow the same trajectory, and yes, it starts by bringing the knee as high as possible so the foot can then move up in a straight line - which is how I can kick above my head with it - with power and focus, despite all those who say it cannot happen. No, I don't believe Terry exaggerated or mistook the distances.

Many of you have decided that high kicks are ineffective, and therefore practice them for balance and flexibility (if at all) rather than for effective use, and that's your choice. That does not, however, necessarily mean that they are ineffective - only that they are ineffective for you. I return to what I said previously in this thread, which most of you seem to have ignored in your desire to prove me wrong, because in your own experience you know high kicks don't work - well, my experience is different, and isn't that what we're trying to do here, expand our knowledge by comparing our various experiences?

Kacey,
What is being debated here is not if a high kick would be effective. I think it could be effective given the right set of circumstances - that was the point of my original post. I even reposted to this effect a less humorous but more technical analysis.

I'll rephrase it another way. To utilize a high kick effectively you need to set it up so it is not detected, you need the correct range, and appropriate timing. Actually, all moves require these same things. But when you're kicking high this entails moving a part of your body 6' (more when you consider the circular path it will take) so consideration for the above mentioned facets are significantly greater. It's true that if a practitioner that trains to utilize high kicks has a better chance of correctly and effectively landing one in a real situation. But that's all it is, a chance. You have a better chance of looking for a one punch knockout. Are those impossible? No. The same considerations apply but it's easier to set up and time. In addition, the punch travels less so setting up for further attempts is easier. But the kick that lands has more power than the punch and therefore a better chance of knocking someone out because the kick can have more power. Again it's a chance, read back a few posts for the story of the biker named Chopper who sent several high kickers to the hospital. I just don't think it's the best primary strategy. Now, I don't advocate a primary strategey of one punch knockouts either. My opinion of the best approach to a situation that has turned ugly would be to utilize mobility and hand combinations with low kicks, possible throws, possible locks or restraints, swing for the fence if opening presents, and lastly throw a high kick to the head if an opening presents itself. Just because it's not my technique of choice doen't mean I don't train it - it just will not be the 1st thing I look for.

In regards to the story you related. The technique you described within the range you described is not possible, physically. Please read my last post and answer those questions if you disagree. Perception of distance of eyewitness accounts takes a backseat to anatomy and physiology.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I percieve that you are shorter than 5' 9". Why don't you try getting a tape measure and marking a distance 18" from a wall or door and see if you can perform this fabled kick without making contact to the wall. For me at 5' 9 1/2", my foot touches the wall inches from the chambered position at about the level of someone's navel.

I'm sorry but within 18" is not the appropriate range for a high kick much the same way standing 3' to 4' away is not the appropriate range for grappling. Yet if we swap those ranges we're onto something. With the possible exception of crescent kicks. I could land a crescent kick behind someone's ear at that distance but I would connect with my ankle. I'm not sure if I would want to use my ankle as a striking surface.

_Don Flatt

 

[Kacey]

As I said, you can believe what you like; I know what I've done, and I know what I've seen others do... and I also take into account moving the body to change balance points and range, which you apparently are not.

I'm not going to argue with you, as I see no purpose in it; neither, however, am I going to retract a statement based on an incident I know to have taken place.

 

[howard]

Just to clear up a few questions: high kick not a front kick, it does not follow the same trajectory, and yes, it starts by bringing the knee as high as possible so the foot can then move up in a straight line - which is how I can kick above my head with it - with power and focus, despite all those who say it cannot happen...

Hi,

I underlined part of what I quoted, because I have a question about that particular point.

If I bring my knee to my chest, so that my thigh is basically parallel to my chest (and vertical to the ground if I'm standing straight), when I swing my lower leg up from the knee to kick with my foot, how is my foot going to move in a straight line? Is it not going to move in an arc, the center of which is my knee, and the circumference of which is described by my foot?

Seems that the only way I could make my foot travel straight upward, in a vertical line, would be to move my knee back and then inward somehow. Otherwise, I don't see how what you seem to have described is physically possible. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding some aspect of this kick?

Just a thought on the situation you describe your friend having found himself in... if you can raise your knee to your chest comfortably, I think a more high-percentage technique in that situation is a simple knee drive to your attacker's sternum or solar plexus. You can add power to the knee drive by grabbing him by his lapels, or around his neck with one hand, and pulling him into the strike. If you're quite flexible, you can even put the knee in his face.

Not intended as a criticism of your friend's technique, just an alternative that a lot of people might find more practical.

 

[Josh Oakley]

Here's how I came to respect high kicks to the head. For years I wouldn't do them because I didn't see the point. Why kick the head when their knees and groin are so much closer? From a technical aspect, closer is quicker, and so I focused my training accordingly.


Then I busted my knee and had to relearn to do everything. just to get to the point where I could walk without intense pain, I had to do massive amounts of stretching and muscle conditioning. when I got back into training, I my sensei had me go with the maxim "train high, kick low". He reasoned that If I could kick to the head or above with great speed and power, how much more effective would my low kicks then be? Made sense so I went with it. While training high kicks I discovered that sometimes an opponent presents no other target than his head at a greater range than I could quickly get in with a fist.

Now high kicking is fully integrated into my martial arts.