Help me be a better instructor

[oftheherd1]

We teach it both ways. TKD forms tend to do spread blocks with fists. Because TKD. I personally prefer it with the open hand, because, as with many blocks/parries, I'm looking for the chance to turn it into a grab.



It's not all that exciting. When we're doing forms, I'll stop and ask people why they think we do X movement, or Y combination, or why the chamber is done thus, and how that movement or combination can be applied to The Magical Real World of Self Defense in the Mean Streets. How can that 'block' be used as a strike? What about as a release? Is there a takedown in that bit? I'll pull someone out to demonstrate the various applications, and have them try them on each other. I also stress that these are never to be considered the only applications, but just as examples. Even with newer students, I try to stress the importance of understanding the principles of balance, leverage, distancing, timing, etc that underlie the actual movements.

I like your teaching method. When I studied TKD and HKD, it was not so. Especially TKD. At least in Hapkido since we learned separate techniques it was a little more obvious what was going on. But even in HKD, we were shown what to do, and it was up to us to figure out what we were doing wrong, or why a particular nuance was present. Granted, once you figure out why a foot is pointed the way it is, or why a step goes as long or short, or nuances of a move not necessarily obvious, you are more likely to remember them. But when I taught, I would let a student try if just a few times, then show them what they were doing wrong and how to do it correctly. I thought to make them learn everything on their own created unnecessary frustration, and might create attempts to power through when only good technique was necessary.

It sounds like you go a little further. Great! I don't think a lot of instructors do that.

 

[dvcochran]

Just found this one and based on this guy it look like they walk through the stance just as it was shown in your original video. lol

A different school. He walks it in a similar manner to what I was taught, but wider than what I was taught. You can see him walk the stance at 1:25 He brings his advancing foot close to this rooting foot, then advances in an arc. If he step between the legs of his opponent and did this, then he can easily blow out his opponent's knee.

This guy does it as well

It's just one of those techniques that flies under the radar. Some teach it and some leave it out, and others just don't know at no fault of their own. The only reason I know is because someone told me and from there I figured out the rest. Based on the 3 videos it looks like it's bee a preference for you in terms of how you advance with the bow stance. However in practical application, the arc matters and is important.

I thought the2nd video, Songham 2 was excellent. The big standouts for compared to the way I was taught are the back leg transition from stance to stance and back leg transition into the roundhouse kick. It comes from way outside which would make it easy to block, assuming he does his sparring kick the same way.

 

[dvcochran]

The difficulty here is that what I see as wrong, you may see as correct. But here goes...

It doesn't look like you're teaching the Chang Hon forms with sine wave. That's fine; I was originally taught them without sine wave, and I still prefer them without, in large part because I'm not convinced sine wave actually adds any benefit.

That being said, this young lady is moving up and down. A lot. If you're doing sine wave, fine. In that case, she's not moving enough. But if you're not, then her head should be staying at the same level, not bouncing up and down.

When she's advancing in front stance, her feet remain at shoulder width throughout the step, rather than moving through an arc.

In Dan Gun, when she's doing the twin forearm blocks, (the first is at 1:30) her lower hand never fully rotates palm out. It's near vertical.

In Do San, the way she's doing the release (following the spearhand) is absolutely useless. That form does have you moving forward into the release (more on that in a minute), but the arm needs to be pushed downwards as it is twisted to have any chance of actually breaking a grip.

Now, personally, I think stepping into the release make zero sense. If you actually try it as done in Do San, it'll generally fail to release the grip. And you will always be at the wrong range for the spinning backfist. It just won't work. To be effective, you need to slide the front foot back and turn the body as you twist the wrist. That will not only have a much better chance of breaking the grip, it'll also put you at the right distance for the spinning backfist to be used.

At 1:39 in this video, you can see the release done in the way I'm describing.

She's doing nice, solid forms overall. Her stances are solid and consistent, as are her techniques.

I like the stance transition description "sine wave". We have always said capital K but sine wave is more accurate. Never bob up and down through a straight line set. Front knee always bent.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I like the stance transition description "sine wave". We have always said capital K but sine wave is more accurate. Never bob up and down through a straight line set. Front knee always bent.

If you're doing sine wave, you do move up and down. A lot. It's a specific thing General Choi added to the ITF tul, with the theory being that it adds power.

I don't recall exactly when I was first exposed to this method of movement during forms, but it was mid-70's. I never cared for it personally, and I remain unconvinced that it's actually adding power. The Official ITF manner of performing tul is to use sine wave, but I do not practice the Chang Hon forms with sine wave. I do them the way I was originally taught, moving level, the same way we do in the MDK.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I like your teaching method. When I studied TKD and HKD, it was not so. Especially TKD. At least in Hapkido since we learned separate techniques it was a little more obvious what was going on. But even in HKD, we were shown what to do, and it was up to us to figure out what we were doing wrong, or why a particular nuance was present. Granted, once you figure out why a foot is pointed the way it is, or why a step goes as long or short, or nuances of a move not necessarily obvious, you are more likely to remember them. But when I taught, I would let a student try if just a few times, then show them what they were doing wrong and how to do it correctly. I thought to make them learn everything on their own created unnecessary frustration, and might create attempts to power through when only good technique was necessary.

It sounds like you go a little further. Great! I don't think a lot of instructors do that.

I've always believed students learn the principles faster if you actually teach them, rather than waiting for them to catch on. So, when I see a student whose foot is in the wrong place/orientation, I don't let them just "fix it" - I help them understand why it belongs in a specific place, and what causes them to put it in the wrong place. Once they get that, there's a lot less correction needed.

 

[dvcochran]

If you're doing sine wave, you do move up and down. A lot. It's a specific thing General Choi added to the ITF tul, with the theory being that it adds power.

I don't recall exactly when I was first exposed to this method of movement during forms, but it was mid-70's. I never cared for it personally, and I remain unconvinced that it's actually adding power. The Official ITF manner of performing tul is to use sine wave, but I do not practice the Chang Hon forms with sine wave. I do them the way I was originally taught, moving level, the same way we do in the MDK.

So the sine wave refers to the Y axis motion? We use a K to describe the X axis motion although not to a sharp point at the intersection

 

[dvcochran]

I've always believed students learn the principles faster if you actually teach them, rather than waiting for them to catch on. So, when I see a student whose foot is in the wrong place/orientation, I don't let them just "fix it" - I help them understand why it belongs in a specific place, and what causes them to put it in the wrong place. Once they get that, there's a lot less correction needed.

Agreed. The “let them fix it” idea is where a lot of bad habits are formed. Muscle memory is a real thing.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Agreed. The “let them fix it” idea is where a lot of bad habits are formed. Muscle memory is a real thing.

And in grappling, it leads to a lot of "foot shifting" after the technique is done...when it no longer matters.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I've always believed students learn the principles faster if you actually teach them, rather than waiting for them to catch on. So, when I see a student whose foot is in the wrong place/orientation, I don't let them just "fix it" - I help them understand why it belongs in a specific place, and what causes them to put it in the wrong place. Once they get that, there's a lot less correction needed.

The "figure what you are doing wrong" method of teaching used to drive me nuts. My Sifu would say "Stop" "Figure what you are doing wrong." Then I would have to try to figure out what I goofed on while striking a pose.

 

[pdg]

So the sine wave refers to the Y axis motion? We use a K to describe the X axis motion although not to a sharp point at the intersection

Using letters for axes can get confusing sometimes - but I'll assume you're using nomenclature suitable for a horizontal spindle milling machine

X and Z are in the horizontal plane, Y is upon downy...

So, the sine wave motion is in Y - the 'bouncing'.

When moving forward, the foot moves slightly in Y (so it's not sliding on the floor) and it moves in X (goes forward) and also 2 directions in Z (comes in to centreline and back out).

That's how it's taught in 'my' ITF school.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The "figure what you are doing wrong" method of teaching used to drive me nuts. My Sifu would say "Stop" "Figure what you are doing wrong." Then I would have to try to figure out what I goofed on while striking a pose.

What always drove me batty was hearing, "That foot should be pointed to the back wall" at the end of a throw. So, I'd turn the foot to the back wall, and wonder why it needed to be that way and why it wasn't. It turns out there are answers to both of those questions.

 

[dvcochran]

Using letters for axes can get confusing sometimes - but I'll assume you're using nomenclature suitable for a horizontal spindle milling machine

X and Z are in the horizontal plane, Y is upon downy...

So, the sine wave motion is in Y - the 'bouncing'.

When moving forward, the foot moves slightly in Y (so it's not sliding on the floor) and it moves in X (goes forward) and also 2 directions in Z (comes in to centreline and back out).

That's how it's taught in 'my' ITF school.

Same, same but we do not teach the bounce although I see it often. Front knee stays bent though the motion so the head stay level.

 

[pdg]

Same, same but we do not teach the bounce although I see it often. Front knee stays bent though the motion so the head stay level.

The sine wave (previously known as knee spring) seems to be a point of contention for many people.

It was intended as a movement to assist with power generation, which a lot of people argue against.

Personally, I think it works. But I also think hip twist works - and I think a combination of the two work as well. They have to be done properly though and I've seen many examples of people doing it incorrectly as a demonstration of it not working...

Either or both are better (imo) than a straight forward movement.

 

[Dirty Dog]

So the sine wave refers to the Y axis motion? We use a K to describe the X axis motion although not to a sharp point at the intersection

Sine wave is an up and down motion, yes.

 

[KenpoMaster805]

lookss good to me too

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I've always believed students learn the principles faster if you actually teach them, ...

Not only teach them, you have to give them some homework too. I like to ask my students the following questions.

Can they create at least 6 different combos for the following strategies/principles?

Use one

- kick to set up a punch.
- kick to set up another kick.
- punch to set up another punch.
- lock to set up another lock.
- throw to set up another opposite direction throw.
- throw to set up another same direction throw
- linear throw to set up another circular throw.
- circular throw to set up another linear throw.
- clockwise throw to set up another counter-clockwise throw.
- counter-clockwise throw to set up another clockwise throw.
- ...

After such test, they will never forget those strategies/principles for the rest of their life.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I've always believed students learn the principles faster if you actually teach them, rather than waiting for them to catch on. So, when I see a student whose foot is in the wrong place/orientation, I don't let them just "fix it" - I help them understand why it belongs in a specific place, and what causes them to put it in the wrong place. Once they get that, there's a lot less correction needed.

I agree. I've had instructors from both sides. However, it's also true that you can overwhelm a student with too much at one time and then they'll learn slower. I tend to start with 'just do it this way' to get them to learn the gross movement, then as we're refining the movement I'll talk about WHY the chamber is done this way, not that way, or why the feet are in this position, not that one.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Not only teach them, you have to give them some homework too. I like to ask my students the following questions.

Can they create at least 6 different combos for the following strategies/principles?

Use one

- kick to set up a punch.
- kick to set up another kick.
- punch to set up another punch.
- lock to set up another lock.
- throw to set up another opposite direction throw.
- throw to set up another same direction throw
- linear throw to set up another circular throw.
- circular throw to set up another linear throw.
- clockwise throw to set up another counter-clockwise throw.
- counter-clockwise throw to set up another clockwise throw.
- ...

After such test, they will never forget those strategies/principles for the rest of their life.

I use a different approach, but the same teaching principle. They need to do some of the thinking.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I agree. I've had instructors from both sides. However, it's also true that you can overwhelm a student with too much at one time and then they'll learn slower. I tend to start with 'just do it this way' to get them to learn the gross movement, then as we're refining the movement I'll talk about WHY the chamber is done this way, not that way, or why the feet are in this position, not that one.

Agreed. My approach is to tell/show how it's "supposed" to be done. Then, when I make a correction of something (say, their front foot doesn't make it to 180 degrees on an Elbow Chop in Classical form), I tell them why that foot belongs at 180 degrees, and what probably caused it to not end up there in their execution. The next time, I ask, rather than telling. This way, they only learn even these basic principles as they are needed for correction. Even if they don't make the mistakes for a given principle, they'll eventually hear me tell it to one of their training partners, or will be in a room where it becomes important enough to work with the whole class on.

 

[Mark Lynn]

Good Evening everyone. Here is a clip of my senior student doing our four beginner forms. I would like any feedback possible so that I can become aware of things that I'm not catching to help her improve. Thank you so much for your time!

Hello Azulx, I teach American TKD the same forms you do. Over all I think your student does a pretty good job but what rank is she? I couldn't tell if she is a 2nd dan, or a brown belt with two stripes or a dark purple with two stripes. Just wondering.

My views or critiques are mine only and I know that we do some things different, but you asked for feedback so here goes.

1) This is my first pet peeve when watching forms or even judging them in kata competition yet so often no ones does this. Before you turn around turn your head. Look we teach our kids to look both ways before crossing the street why wouldn't we teach our students to turn their head and identify where the attacker is, how they might be coming for the attack and so on. If kata represents what we are supposed to do in sparring or against and attack why would we have our students turn blindly into an attack when changing direction. So when teaching I first tell the students turn your head, chamber, turn and block. Your student never looks where she is going before she turns, instead she rotates her head as she turns. Just today when judging kata competition at a local tournament there was only one black belt competitor who I noticed without a doubt turning his head or shifting his gaze on every direction change. Most competitors executed the kata just like your student did. In Chulgi (Nahanchi/Tekki Nidan) I believe the opening move is looking both ways before you begin.

2) I too thought her stance looked a little wide but not extremely excessive. The next few videos featuring the ATA instructors all had just as wide stances. Does this make it right? That depends upon you and your belief as to why the stance should be wide or narrow. Since you are an independent you can make the change to how you see fit, not because some organization says this is how it is done. After reading everyone comments here, several believe it should be wide some believe it should be narrow. I teach about a shoulder width apart like several of the posters said. By having the stance to wide it is technically weaker, the groin is open to attack, etc. etc. again you have ability to change it or not. I do recommend you give it a lot of thought as to should you change it or not. What's the pros and cons of each type of stance.

3) I believe her back stance front leg is almost to straight, potentially setting it up for an attack. Now it is not as bad as I saw on a black belt exam once, there the student had been told to lean his weight back on the rear foot and lock his front knee out (making the leg straight) those of us on the exam board not from the school were kind of horrified and we all had the same concern that it was vulnerable to being attacked by a front kick, or set up for a lock knee take down etc. etc. but that was how the instructor was taught and how it was passed down to the student. Even at the tournament again today I saw the same stance from the American karate TKD schools, yet the more traditional (I.e. Shotkan, Isshinryu, Gojuryu, and other American karate schools) had a deeper stance with both knees bent.

4) In the last form Dan Gun I agree that the turn after the spear hand is problematic, I teach it similar to how Dirty Dog describes it except I teach a different application off of a hand grab (as in shaking hands) instead of the wrist grab. I teach a similar movement as in the video he posted only I step into a horse stance with a hammer fist hit that is the same as the final two back hand chops. By doing that if I'm to close like Dirty Dog says you will be (which you are) I can hit with a elbow strike prior to extending my arm. Like I said being an independent allows me the freedom to alter the kata to fit my teachings.

5) In regards to her transitions I too think she raises upwards to much. If you were teaching the sine wave then that might be OK. I teach it more in lines with the view of trying to keep your head level as you move from one technique/stance to the next. For instance at the end of Dan Gun she does the backhand chop and then raises upwards and lowers downward to chop. Why? What purpose does it serve? What application? These are questions to ask as to why raise up and down. From my understanding the head was kept level (based on Japanese karate from which the forms came from) until the sine wave was introduced in the late 70's early 80's and then it changed. Perhaps the adaptation of the up down movement is not the sine wave (with all of its back ground instruction) but rather a more modern adaptation influenced by the sine wave motion as taught by more modern instructors who see the sine wave and copy it without really understanding it. Just speculation on my part. But I see this all of the time, even today at the tournament, and when I ask about it there isn't a good reason for it. People usually say it's just how I was taught.

6) The stepping motion is your personal preference. I tend to teach the railroad track stepping motion to my beginners and the C step or arcing motion in the step to intermediate belts. Along with applications for the step.

I hope this helps. However over all she looked pretty good and I think you will make some good students.