Having trouble finding a school

[Joab]

This is certainly true of my immediate area, living near Upper Marlboro, Maryland (The actual town I live in is so small people living 14 miles away normally haven't heard of it) and it is certainly true of where I work, Annapolis, Maryland. What I'm looking for is really a RBSD type of a system that employs relatively simple techniques, focusing more on gross body movements over fine body movements, open hand blows over clenched fists blows, low kicks no higher than the testicles, and really something out of the Fairbairn-Applegate tradition if at all possible. More precussionary or striking oriented than groundwork. It's not likely I'm going to find everything I want, but I've broadened my area to Washington D.C. located only thirty miles away and a short drive to the subway. Can anybody give me a referral, I'm getting rather frustrated trying to find anything like that, perhaps I'm looking in the wrong places. Thanks.

I'm sure there are many fine schools in Upper Marlboro and Annapolis, just not what I'm looking for.

 

[MJS]

Sammy Franco is in your area.

http://www.sammyfranco.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=classes

I've heard good and bad things about him. IMHO, I think that its important for each person to form their own opinion about someone, rather than always going on what others say. I've looked at a few of Sammys books. I thought they were pretty good.

 

[Joab]

Thanks, I've checked out this website before. The main problem I had with it is Franco's assertion that the majority of street fights end up on the ground. While that has been my experience, I've had two teachers with far more street fighting experience than I have had who really disagree with that. Than again, if your on the ground it is good to know something.

I looked through one of his books once and had other problems with it that I don't remember now.

I'm puzzled that there arn't more systems based on the World War II methods of Fairbairn-Applegate as they have been time tested techniques that do work. I'm not implying that Franco's system is or isn't a Fairbairn-Applegate infleunced system, I don't know, this is more of an aside. I also have a problem with the name "Contemporary Fighting Arts" that he uses, I have no interest in fighting, only self defense, fighting, except in sanctioned bouts or on mats, is illegal. On the street, or the hotel and bar that I provide security for it darn well better be a last resort and self defense, if I got into a fight I would lose my security license and job fast! Has any one in this forum taken any classes from Sammy Franco? The more I read about him the more I think this guy and I wouldn't connect very well, I see violence as a last resort, he may too, but he seems a little too aggressive in his approach, in fifteen years working almost every kind of security I've always been able to deescalate the situation, use diplomacy, avoid violence. I'm not sure that is entirely his approach, than again it might be.

 

[MJS]

Thanks, I've checked out this website before. The main problem I had with it is Franco's assertion that the majority of street fights end up on the ground. While that has been my experience, I've had two teachers with far more street fighting experience than I have had who really disagree with that. Than again, if your on the ground it is good to know something.

I looked through one of his books once and had other problems with it that I don't remember now.

I'm puzzled that there arn't more systems based on the World War II methods of Fairbairn-Applegate as they have been time tested techniques that do work. I'm not implying that Franco's system is or isn't a Fairbairn-Applegate infleunced system, I don't know, this is more of an aside. I also have a problem with the name "Contemporary Fighting Arts" that he uses, I have no interest in fighting, only self defense, fighting, except in sanctioned bouts or on mats, is illegal. On the street, or the hotel and bar that I provide security for it darn well better be a last resort and self defense, if I got into a fight I would lose my security license and job fast! Has any one in this forum taken any classes from Sammy Franco? The more I read about him the more I think this guy and I wouldn't connect very well, I see violence as a last resort, he may too, but he seems a little too aggressive in his approach, in fifteen years working almost every kind of security I've always been able to deescalate the situation, use diplomacy, avoid violence. I'm not sure that is entirely his approach, than again it might be.

Likewise, I'm not a big buyer into the 'all fights go to the ground' thinking either, and many that I train with feel the same way. We're not saying that it doesn't or never happens, BUT, every fight...?

Not sure what else to suggest. The first thing that comes to mind would be to check if there is a Kajukenbo school in your area.

 

[ppko]

I would tell you to come train with me but I am heading off to Germany lol not much help there, I know the Oyata has a student in Bethesda and they also teach Jujitsu and Modern Arnis there not sure how good of a school it is though.

 

[ap Oweyn]

If you're casting that wide a net, there's JKD in the area that might fit the bill. And krav maga, which seems like it would be closest to the WW2 combatives-type stuff. I'm just across the border in Alexandria, so I could point you to a couple of KM schools here. But I grew up in Annapolis, and I can attest to the fact that travelling from Annapolis to NOVa for class isn't going to be a treat.

I can tell you where I trained in that area, but I don't think the combatives focus is going to be as strong as you'd like. I think, perhaps, your best bet will be some of the JKD (Concepts) options in the area.


Stuart

 

[ppko]

W

If you're casting that wide a net, there's JKD in the area that might fit the bill. And krav maga, which seems like it would be closest to the WW2 combatives-type stuff. I'm just across the border in Alexandria, so I could point you to a couple of KM schools here. But I grew up in Annapolis, and I can attest to the fact that travelling from Annapolis to NOVa for class isn't going to be a treat.

I can tell you where I trained in that area, but I don't think the combatives focus is going to be as strong as you'd like. I think, perhaps, your best bet will be some of the JKD (Concepts) options in the area.


Stuart

Where do you train i live on route 1 in alexandria by ft belvoir

 

[ap Oweyn]

W
Where do you train i live on route 1 in alexandria by ft belvoir

Currently, I'm not training much. Getting together with folks at the park when I can manage it. But the club that I'm associated with operates out of the Capitol Martial Arts (formerly Jhoon Rhee) on Telegraph Road.


Stuart

 

[Joab]

If you're casting that wide a net, there's JKD in the area that might fit the bill. And krav maga, which seems like it would be closest to the WW2 combatives-type stuff. I'm just across the border in Alexandria, so I could point you to a couple of KM schools here. But I grew up in Annapolis, and I can attest to the fact that travelling from Annapolis to NOVa for class isn't going to be a treat.

I can tell you where I trained in that area, but I don't think the combatives focus is going to be as strong as you'd like. I think, perhaps, your best bet will be some of the JKD (Concepts) options in the area.


Stuart

I took Krav Maga years`ago and was awarded a yellow belt in it which meant very little, everyone who took the eight week course took the test one after the other and everyone passed. My proficiency was not good enough to pass but I passed anyway, I found it ridiculous quite frankly. I needed a couple more weeks to be honest before I was ready. It depends upon what Krav Maga your talking about to, some Krav Maga does look a lot like the World War II combatives I've been told by a founder of a World War II system, others, like the one I took, looked a lot more like aerobic kickboxing quite frankly, although I did learn some very nice elbow striking techniques and a forward foot leading kick to the testicles, both of which I practice several times a day. I may end up giving Krav Maga another try, theres a couple schools within driving distance of where I live, one of which came highly recommended by a poster in this forum, but I really prefer open hand strikes for the most part, the Krav that I took used clenched fists, low kicks, and there are some high kicks in Krav, and prefer to face an opponent sideways to give him less room to hit you, and the Krav I took had you facing your opponent with your entire body exposed. But I may give it another try, thanks for the suggestion.

Any info regarding the JKD schools would be appreciated.

 

[ap Oweyn]

This is Mike Krivka's outfit in Gaithersburg. I haven't trained with Mr. Krivka myself (though we've met a few times). But you may want to check it out.

http://www.martialartskoncepts.com/


Stuart

 

[Chris Parker]

I took Krav Maga years`ago and was awarded a yellow belt in it which meant very little, everyone who took the eight week course took the test one after the other and everyone passed. My proficiency was not good enough to pass but I passed anyway, I found it ridiculous quite frankly. I needed a couple more weeks to be honest before I was ready. It depends upon what Krav Maga your talking about to, some Krav Maga does look a lot like the World War II combatives I've been told by a founder of a World War II system, others, like the one I took, looked a lot more like aerobic kickboxing quite frankly, although I did learn some very nice elbow striking techniques and a forward foot leading kick to the testicles, both of which I practice several times a day. I may end up giving Krav Maga another try, theres a couple schools within driving distance of where I live, one of which came highly recommended by a poster in this forum, but I really prefer open hand strikes for the most part, the Krav that I took used clenched fists, low kicks, and there are some high kicks in Krav, and prefer to face an opponent sideways to give him less room to hit you, and the Krav I took had you facing your opponent with your entire body exposed. But I may give it another try, thanks for the suggestion.

Any info regarding the JKD schools would be appreciated.

Joab, I'm going to be rather blunt here. I think the reason you're having trouble finding a school is simply you.

You describe yourself in your profile under Arts with the following phrase "dabbled in four, very much still a beginner". Then you come along and say you can't find what you're looking for because you are showing no flexibility to see another person's point of view or approach. After an eight week course you decided that Krav Maga (or at least the form you "dabbled" in) doesn't fit your personal preferences so that's out. There are no schools there that have WWII Combatives, more open hand than closed, low and high kicks, ground work, Fairbairn-descended, more side on than front on, etc etc etc, in your backyard? Really? Are you surprised? This is kind of like complaining that the local restaurant doesn't have every dish you like, and even goes so far as to have some that you don't like, or haven't tried yet...

Seriously, spend some actual time under an instructor. Just pick one and stick it out for longer than an eight week course, or a couple of months, or anything else. When it comes to martial arts, you are arguing your conscious desires over the experience of people who have done this longer, and been there many times before, than you. Empty that cup. You're doing yourself no favours by looking for things you don't agree with in various systems, as you do not have the experience from your posts here to be able to decide what the value of the various approaches is.

For example, I teach an art that includes old-style weaponry, including things like sword. Now, every now and then a student may ask what the point of that is, as they are not exactly going to be carrying one around with them as they wander the streets. Occasionally one will leap to what they think is the logical conclusion, which is that the length of a sword is common enough that they can "adapt" the techniques and use, say, a broom handle to fight with. Now, that makes sense. But it's wrong. For one thing, we teach staff weaponry of various lengths, so no adaptation is needed. For another, the properties of a sword are very different to a staff or stick, so adaptation is not really advised either.

So if common sense doesn't fit, why do I teach it? Why do I insist that students work on it, and why do I spend so much time correcting their swordwork? Simply put, sword has a number of attributes that cannot be easily accessed without swordwork, including a greater understanding of distance and timing, and less-tangible aspects of attitude (or spirit), as well as many more. But a less-experienced student won't see this, even if I spell it out for them. That doesn't mean it has no reason or benefit, just that the inexperienced cannot judge what is valuable and what is not. To a great degree, choose a teacher and trust them to guide you with what is of value. And if you make sure you choose a teacher with similar values to you, you will be getting what you are after, even if the technical aspects are something you (currently) think you disagree with.

But your laundry list is unrealistic. I recommend dropping it. Or you won't do anything or get anywhere.

 

[MJS]

Chris,

What can I say brother, other than words that I've said before...that was one hell of a great post!

I have to say that you're spot on with what you said. If we look at our geographical area, we'll most likely see different things. I'm on the east coast. I have a pretty good selection of arts to choose from, but if you look at the west coast, well, that IMO, tends to be the 'mecca' of martial arts. Anything and everything is out there. For example: California has a ton of Kajukenbo schools, yet there really are none in my area. There is a school in the MA area and a few in NY. Krav Maga...well, I have quite a few KMWW affiliated schools in my area, none of which I'm really crazy about. However, I could make the trip to NY or NJ and find schools that I'd love to train at.

To the OP...take the advice that you're getting. If it means driving 2hrs roundtrip, if its something that you want bad enough, because you're not happy with whats around you, then do it! IMO, an 8wk course, well, its kind of a joke, because I highly doubt that in that amount of time, any serious learning will happen. 2mos is nowhere near enough time to really gain anything from an art.

As I asked in another post...what schools are in your immediate and surrounding area? Keep in mind, that its not the art that makes the difference. Nothing says that you can't work on specific things on your own, once you get a solid foundation. Another option is making a long trip and taking an extended private lesson. For example...if you found something that you like, but the teacher is in another state, fly/drive down, stay for 2-3 days, take private classes, group classes, take notes, video tape your sessions, and then go back to your home town and train your *** off. Obviously doing that, means alot of dedication, time and money, but again, its another option.

 

[Joab]

To MJS, this is a partial list of the schools in my area. There are more in Annapolis, Upper Marlboro is closer:

• 
  
  

Search Results

1. Local business results for martial art schools near Upper Marlboro, MD
   
   
   
   Upper Marlboro Martial Arts Center
   
   
   
   maps.google.com - (301) 574-4515 - 1 review
   Johsnon Martial Arts
   
   
   
   johnsonmartialartsfitness.com - (301) 390-1775 - More
   Dennis Brown Shaolin Wu-Shu Training Center
   
   
   
   www.dennisbrownshaolin.com - (301) 336-7000 - More
   Shaolin Kugfoo Health & Fitness
   
   
   
   shaolinkungfuhealthandfitness.com - (301) 627-5015 - More
   School of Martial Sci & Fitness
   
   
   
   www.bestofthebest.bz - (301) 390-1600 - More
   Universal Korean Martial Arts Academy
   
   
   
   www.muchsafer.net - (301) 213-2092 - More
   Kung Fu Movies Net
   
   
   
   www.kungfumovies.net - (301) 952-0436 - More
   
   More results near Upper Marlboro, MD »

 

[Joab]

I'm going to check this one out, it looks promising:

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[Joab]

This is Mike Krivka's outfit in Gaithersburg. I haven't trained with Mr. Krivka myself (though we've met a few times). But you may want to check it out.

http://www.martialartskoncepts.com/


Stuart

Well, my last post was a bit redundant, sorry! I'm coming off graveyard shift. At any rate, I had a look at this one before it was posted by Oweyn, thanks Oweyn just the same. Thanks to everyone, and I agree with MJS, my experience is martial arts are really big on the West Coast compared to the East Coast. When I went to school in San Francisco there was a school almost every block, Seattle is behind San Francisco, but there are lots of schools there as well. The area of the East Coast that I have lived, at least the parts of Virginia, Delaware and Maryland I have lived just don't have the number of schools that those West Coast cities have. Thanks again.

I really don't agree that it is not the style, I think the style is important in terms of what your looking for. It's not so much one style is better than another, more one style is better than another in terms of what you are trying to achieve. This is especially true of self defense. And yes, I'm a relative newbie compared to some of you, but this comes from a couple of teachers who were experts and ran their own schools.

 

[jks9199]

Dennis Brown has an excellent reputation as a Chinese martial arts instructor; I'd definitely investigate his school.

You've also apparently limited yourself to what you can find on the web business listings. I know for a fact that there are several less commercial schools in the general area; you'll have to hunt a little more for them. Your "shopping list" is very specific, and you probably won't find anything that matches it exactly. (I wonder how you developed it...) As others have suggested -- drop the list, and visit the schools. Give an honest try to one that seems like it's got a positive atmosphere.

 

[Joab]

Dennis Brown has an excellent reputation as a Chinese martial arts instructor; I'd definitely investigate his school.

You've also apparently limited yourself to what you can find on the web business listings. I know for a fact that there are several less commercial schools in the general area; you'll have to hunt a little more for them. Your "shopping list" is very specific, and you probably won't find anything that matches it exactly. (I wonder how you developed it...) As others have suggested -- drop the list, and visit the schools. Give an honest try to one that seems like it's got a positive atmosphere.

Your right about limiting it to yellow pages, I don't know where else to look, which is why I put the post in. I don't expect to find a school with everything I want, although that would be nice. If I lived in New York City or Seattle there are two schools that would have everything I'm looking for, but I'll be in the DC area for the next 20 years due to my wife's career in the federal government. I love the area, but having trouble finding the right school. But I'm going to definitely check out one. How do I contact this Dennis Brown fellow?

 

[jks9199]

Your right about limiting it to yellow pages, I don't know where else to look, which is why I put the post in. I don't expect to find a school with everything I want, although that would be nice. If I lived in New York City or Seattle there are two schools that would have everything I'm looking for, but I'll be in the DC area for the next 20 years due to my wife's career in the federal government. I love the area, but having trouble finding the right school. But I'm going to definitely check out one. How do I contact this Dennis Brown fellow?

Uh... Dennis Brown's school was on the list you posted.

The martial arts world on the East Coast is less commercial and less visible perhaps than on the West Coast. Jhoon Rhee got his commercial start in this area, and TKD is pretty dominant commercially, with lots of schools having at least a heavy kid's program. But there's a lot of other stuff around, often taught through rec centers or in garages. You're far enough away from me that I don't have a lot of specific advice -- but there's a lot more around than you realize, once you look for it. Based on your comments about where you work, it's probably impractical for you to target schools in Virginia. I may PM you some information, if I get a chance to check in with some folks I know.

 

[MJS]

Out of what you have listed so far, I'd go with the Martial Art Koncepts place. Of course, if any of the others caught your eye, it wouldn't hurt to check the place out.

Not sure if any of these schools are in your area, but if so, you may want to check out the AKKI Kenpo group, run by Paul Mills. He was a student under GM Ed Parker and from what I've seen, he's taken his Kenpo to another level, with some of the changes that he's made. I believe there are some AKKI members on this forum, so you could always ask them. Here is the link:
http://www.akki.com/membership/regional_reps.htm

 

[ap Oweyn]

My first eskrima school is also about 10 minutes outside of Annapolis, in Pasadena. But I'm not sure it really fits your "WW2 combatives" angle very well. Just thought I'd mention it though.