Has MMA surpassed traditional MA in its effectiveness

[jarrod]

I woefully disagree.
Character, Honor and integrity are essential to any good human being. You cannot do whats right and you cannot do whats just if you lack the essentials... These dont come standard only to certian arts... they are a standard every man woman and child should adhere to.

i don't disagree with your ideals. however, many arts do not embrace a moral or ethical code; it is often assumed to be built into to culture the art came from, or left to the individual practitioners. i'm not saying that martial artists should/do operate without an ethical system, only that it isn't built into each & every system.

you can be a very competent at boxing, wrestling, RBSD, military combatives, etc, without any sort of ethics or sportsmanship. no one will want to train or compete with you, but moral values are not an inherent part of all styles.

jf

 

[BLACK LION]

i don't disagree with your ideals. however, many arts do not embrace a moral or ethical code; it is often assumed to be built into to culture the art came from, or left to the individual practitioners. i'm not saying that martial artists should/do operate without an ethical system, only that it isn't built into each & every system.

you can be a very competent at boxing, wrestling, RBSD, military combatives, etc, without any sort of ethics or sportsmanship. no one will want to train or compete with you, but moral values are not an inherent part of all styles.

jf

Understood... thanks for your clarification.

 

[sgtmac_46]

i don't disagree with your ideals. however, many arts do not embrace a moral or ethical code; it is often assumed to be built into to culture the art came from, or left to the individual practitioners. i'm not saying that martial artists should/do operate without an ethical system, only that it isn't built into each & every system.

you can be a very competent at boxing, wrestling, RBSD, military combatives, etc, without any sort of ethics or sportsmanship. no one will want to train or compete with you, but moral values are not an inherent part of all styles.

jf

That's quite true. Effective action is a separate issue for moral character. Effective actions are amoral......where the issue of morals comes in, however, is to ensure that as many GOOD people are armed with effective actions as possible.

 

[Ronin74]

It should be a gramatical crime to use it without qualification.

Daniel

I hope that law goes effective someday... lol

 

[suicide]

threads like these bring everything all out dog :angel:

 

[Tez3]

Suicide, that's just pointless and there's very little point in anyone posting anything further if all you are going to do is throw up random comments and videos. there's been thoughtful postings and this is all you contribute?

 

[MJS]

This thread is on a 1-way track down the tubes, due to the fact that:

a) the OP isn't posting.

b) what he is posting makes zero sense.

c) when asked direct questions, refuses to answer.

d) posts pointless and offtopic youtube clips in some sort of justification.

e) when asked about the pointless clips, the questions go unanswered.

Man, for someone who started a thread in hopes to discuss, I don't see much productive discussion from the person who started the thread. I think for now, I'll just watching this thread, instead of posting.

 

[suicide]

according to you this thread was pointless ? but i gained much understanding and insight from all of you on the way you and everybody else see things : and the pro and cons about mma & tma when it comes to effectiveness , just that some of you act like you jumped out of the ma hall of fame - what happened to your patience ?

 

[Dave Leverich]

What MMA did for self-defense was bring about an awareness of the need for real and hard training against resistance. Any school, regardless of style (MMA, TMA, etc.) that trains hard, with resistance and realistic attacking, is contributing to one's ability to be effective in a traditional street situation.

Thread answered.

 

[MJS]

according to you this thread was pointless ? but i gained much understanding and insight from all of you on the way you and everybody else see things : and the pro and cons about mma & tma when it comes to effectiveness , just that some of you act like you jumped out of the ma hall of fame - what happened to your patience ?

Yes, I as well as a few others are a bit confused, due to the fact that some of our questions are not being answered. I mean, if a thread is going to be a success, well, questions need to be answered.

I'm still wondering about that last youtube clip you posted, with all of the children fighting in the street. How is that related to this thread? Not quite following that one. Additionally, if you're going to post youtube clips, I'd think they should at least pertain to the thread at hand. Again, I, and a few others are wondering what the point you're trying to make is.

 

[suicide]

the video clips are in a way : metaphoric

there used to describe thee unpredictability of things , when i think of the effectiveness in mma tma sd this what it would be up against : thugs , if another black belt attacked me to robb me carjack me etc etc and we squared off that would be something ' but when a thug comes at me with his fist knife or gun in the year 2009 i even ask myself how effective would my training be against a situation like this thats all ... and when you guys ask questions when i get a chance ill get back sometimes i just come through real quick to see whats the happs on the craps so dont expect a thesis on why tai bo is better than gym kata at the moment its requested.

peace love unity & respect

 

[BLACK LION]

That's quite true. Effective action is a separate issue for moral character. Effective actions are amoral......where the issue of morals comes in, however, is to ensure that as many GOOD people are armed with effective actions as possible.

I never used the word moral character. As I believe there is two sides to a persons character...moral and amoral....social and asocial. Often they can be added and subtracted at will.

I am talking about integrity which can be completely devoid of morals or any code of ethics or encompassed by them... morals can get in the way of decisions causing one to be indecisive.. that all depends on thier integrity... I have morals...I dont rape, commit murder etc but at the same time that wont stop me from crushing a mans throat as a means of self preservation or the preservation of other lives...to me that is not killing in cold blood and therefor has nothing to do with my morals... I wont pee on the dead body because that would be against my code of ethics...

Integrity is everything... its not just morals and its not justt ethics...

 

[MJS]

the video clips are in a way : metaphoric

there used to describe thee unpredictability of things , when i think of the effectiveness in mma tma sd this what it would be up against : thugs , if another black belt attacked me to robb me carjack me etc etc and we squared off that would be something ' but when a thug comes at me with his fist knife or gun in the year 2009 i even ask myself how effective would my training be against a situation like this thats all ... and when you guys ask questions when i get a chance ill get back sometimes i just come through real quick to see whats the happs on the craps so dont expect a thesis on why tai bo is better than gym kata at the moment its requested.

peace love unity & respect

Lets break this clip down. Opening few seconds, you have 2 males, with the caption that he didn't have the other guys money, which led to the guy that was sitting, to get up, and slap the guy that was standing. Would I be faced with that? Nope, due to the fact that its clear this was some drug deal gone bad. I dont do drugs, I dont sell them, I dont buy them and I sure as hell don't hang with those that do.

Much of the rest of this clip appears to be group and/or gang relating fighting. I dont hang out with gang members, I'm not part of a gang, I dont frequent areas that are known gang areas. I'm probably not going to find myself in a situation like this.

As I said, much of your success will come down to how you train. If you train at a mcdojo, chances are, you'll probably get your *** kicked. If you bust your *** in training, putting in some hard work, blood, sweat and tears, work various scenario drills, do weapons work, etc., chances of your success just went up greatly.

Like I said, everything I saw in that clip looked to me like a bunch of untrained, brawling punks. If there was skill in any of that, I'm not seeing it.

Good luck to you in your training.

 

[suicide]

Lets break this clip down. Opening few seconds, you have 2 males, with the caption that he didn't have the other guys money, which led to the guy that was sitting, to get up, and slap the guy that was standing. Would I be faced with that? Nope, due to the fact that its clear this was some drug deal gone bad. I dont do drugs, I dont sell them, I dont buy them and I sure as hell don't hang with those that do.

Much of the rest of this clip appears to be group and/or gang relating fighting. I dont hang out with gang members, I'm not part of a gang, I dont frequent areas that are known gang areas. I'm probably not going to find myself in a situation like this.

As I said, much of your success will come down to how you train. If you train at a mcdojo, chances are, you'll probably get your *** kicked. If you bust your *** in training, putting in some hard work, blood, sweat and tears, work various scenario drills, do weapons work, etc., chances of your success just went up greatly.

Like I said, everything I saw in that clip looked to me like a bunch of untrained, brawling punks. If there was skill in any of that, I'm not seeing it.

Good luck to you in your training.

what makes you immune to getting slapped ? no one is immune to anything it can happen you as well as me maybe not for oweing money to a drug dealer but theres always people out there that react and do things off of impulse so dont ever count that out ' it could happen at a gas station on vacation or a mere misunderstanding.

getting attacked by multiple assailents ? dont tell me you dont train for these types of situations we all do and when it does happens believe me it will probably be a bunch of gang members or bikers or etc etc doubt that it will be the cobra kai dojo students taking turns kicking and punching you.

unskilled and untrained people are some of the most dangerous people on the earth because there skilled and trained in survival due to there envirment...

and good luck to you in your training

peace love unity & respect

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NzzXZPuEzs&feature=related

 

[Tez3]

MJS, you have my respect, your patience is greater than mine.

 

[MJS]

MJS, you have my respect, your patience is greater than mine.

Thank you.

 

[MJS]

what makes you immune to getting slapped ? no one is immune to anything it can happen you as well as me maybe not for oweing money to a drug dealer but theres always people out there that react and do things off of impulse so dont ever count that out ' it could happen at a gas station on vacation or a mere misunderstanding.

And if you let someone get within arms reach of you, and you just stand there, hands down, facing the person, yes, you do deserve to get slapped. Never said I was immune, but I am saying that if you look at that part as well as one towards the end, where a kid was totally unaware of the other guy behind him, that says to me, that you have no awareness. Its that simple. If someone was standing in front of me, yelling, upset, angry, etc., yes, my hands will be up in a non-threatening manner, so as to allow me a chance to block or defend against any sudden movement. Yes, this is stuff that I train for. If you dont, then I suggest you re-evaluate your training, as something must be lacking.

getting attacked by multiple assailents ? dont tell me you dont train for these types of situations we all do and when it does happens believe me it will probably be a bunch of gang members or bikers or etc etc doubt that it will be the cobra kai dojo students taking turns kicking and punching you.

You obviously took me saying that I dont hang around in gang areas, as me saying I dont train for multiples. Yes, I train for that too. Come on now, you're posts are really starting to sound childish. Part of defending yourself is being aware of whats going on around you. Is it possible for me to get attacked by more than 1? Anything is, and if it happens, I'll defend myself to the very best of my abilities. I'll do whatever I have to, and use whatever tools are available to me. I worked for the Dept Of Corrections for a period of time, and yes, every day I was outnumbered, but rest assure, I was very aware of what and who was around me. I'm still here typing this post today.

unskilled and untrained people are some of the most dangerous people on the earth because there skilled and trained in survival due to there envirment...

And in many cases, what these people thrive on, is getting the jump on you, as well as fear and intimidation. I've dealt with people in the dojo and outside of that, that were unskilled and untrained...again, I'm still here to talk about it. Like I said, alot of it all comes down to how you train.

and good luck to you in your training

Thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NzzXZPuEzs&feature=related

Ummmmmm......ok.

 

[suicide]

its cool your right... glad that your still alive and respect what you been through. stay safe its a jungle in there.

what prison have you worked in and what level was the yard ? did you ever have to defend yourself in there against a inmate ?

 

[MJS]

what prison have you worked in and what level was the yard ?

New Haven Correctional Center, in New Haven, Ct. Level 4 facility.

did you ever have to defend yourself in there against a inmate ?

On a few occassions, and fortunately, all turned out well for me. I was fortunate to be able to verbally talk many situations down.

 

[suicide]

you what sifu MJS your alright :uhyeah: i could learn alot from you.