Has anyone had to use Wing-Chun for self-defense ?

[Oily Dragon]

That's another big difference between Wing Chun and other southern CMA. Wing Chun teaches the same concept for bong Sau, but in a more limited range of stances and applications.

If you start comparing pics of bong sau you should see it. There is a whole lot more to bong sao, like Shaolin Chan methods like the Single Finger Questioning Hand.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That's another big difference between Wing Chun and other southern CMA. Wing Chun teaches the same concept for bong Sau, but in a more limited range of stances and applications.

If you start comparing pics of bong sau you should see it. There is a whole lot more to bong sao, like Shaolin Chan methods like the Single Finger Questioning Hand.

This thread has me thinking I might give WC a try if I ever get a chance. The limited range of techniques might be an interesting supplement.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

That's another big difference between Wing Chun and other southern CMA. Wing Chun teaches the same concept for bong Sau, but in a more limited range of stances and applications.

If you start comparing pics of bong sau you should see it. There is a whole lot more to bong sao, like Shaolin Chan methods like the Single Finger Questioning Hand.

I agree that WC has not fully expanded the Bong Shou usage yet.

You can hide your head behind your bending elbow Bong Shou when your opponent uses hook punch at you.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

That's another big difference between Wing Chun and other southern CMA. Wing Chun teaches the same concept for bong Sau, but in a more limited range of stances and applications.

If you start comparing pics of bong sau you should see it. There is a whole lot more to bong sao, like Shaolin Chan methods like the Single Finger Questioning Hand.

it would appear that Hung Gar could be useful as a cross train style for the WC folks I’ve run into around here. I don’t have much experience with WC outside of here, given the popularity of WC, I would expect an entirely different school of fish elsewhere.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

it would appear that Hung Gar could be useful as a cross train style for the WC folks I’ve run into around here. I don’t have much experience with WC outside of here, given the popularity of WC, I would expect an entirely different school of fish elsewhere.

White crane can be a good cross training system for WC.

 

[Oily Dragon]

I agree that WC has not fully expanded the Bong Shou usage yet.

You can hide your head behind your bending elbow Bong Shou when your opponent uses hook punch

Terrible Tim Witherspoon did a thread on this a while back, because the Philly Shell in boxing is basically the same thing and he noticed it as he learned Wing Chun.

In boxing, with the glove on there is no "tying hand" but there is still the Cranes wing and counter etc

Wing Chun & Philly Shell I Like What I Saw. Slight Change To Bong Sao

Terrible Tim Witherspoon 2X heavyweight champion of the world. I like Wing Chun's Bong Sao, if changed slightly it is just like the Philly Shell. I mean no disrespect to Wing Chun so forgive me if I don't get your move 100%. I do like it and think it is functional.

www.martialtalk.com

 

[Oily Dragon]

it would appear that Hung Gar could be useful as a cross train style for the WC folks I’ve run into around here. I don’t have much experience with WC outside of here, given the popularity of WC, I would expect an entirely different school of fish elsewhere.

Practically everything in Wing Chun is in Hung Ga somewhere. Modern Hung Ga is a hoover of different martial arts. The lineage covers a lot of ground.

I think any 5 Animals exposure would really expand the average WC student. They can always focus on Crane and Snake but all the other stuff, especially the Qigong and iron body conditioning, is good.

Another big difference are the weighted dynamic tension exercises. These are in Wing Chun but it's rare to find them well developed IMHO.

 

[geezer]

Practically everything in Wing Chun is in Hung Ga somewhere. Modern Hung Ga is a hoover of different martial arts.

This is where the Wing Chun and Hung Ga differ in their fundamental philosophies. Wing Chun is specialized and minimalistic while Hung Ga is so eclectic.

IMO the best Wing Chun is very simple and yet deep. While it is good do know something about similar styles (like
Fukien crane) and study their strengths, it is not a great idea to train deeply in contradictory systems.

Another way to approach cross-training is to seek out arts that do not overlap too much.... like Wing Chun, Escrima and a grappling art (my personal choices).

On the other hand, it is an excellent idea to regularly work and spar with people from many different systems.

 

[Oily Dragon]

This is where the Wing Chun and Hung Ga differ in their fundamental philosophies. Wing Chun is specialized and minimalistic while Hung Ga is so eclectic.

IMO the best Wing Chun is very simple and yet deep. While it is good do know something about similar styles (like
Fukien crane) and study their strengths, it is not a great idea to train deeply in contradictory systems.

Another way to approach cross-training is to seek out arts that do not overlap too much.... like Wing Chun, Escrima and a grappling art (my personal choices).

On the other hand, it is an excellent idea to regularly work and spar with people from many different systems.

I don't think Wing Chun and Hung Ga are contradictory, Wing Chun is a subset of the 5 Animal system, but everything is pretty much identical as far as training.

I'd even say Yee Gi Kim Yeurng Ma training in Hung Kuen is more intense than in Wing Chun (I think this is true of all the deep stance training, Wing Chun skimps on it). And yet you still find people claiming it's a fighting stance, when it's really a body weight training stance. IMHO these are the people with little to no real sparring experience other than watching Ip Man movies.

But as a "southern Shaolin lite" style, I think there is nothing in WC that needs "fixing", which we often see. It's more like you said, any WC purist who tangles with a well trained Hung Ga San Shou fighter is going to learn their weaknesses really fast.

And that's important. Too many WC students believe their own hype.

 

[geezer]

It's more like you said, any WC purist ....is going to learn their weaknesses really fast.
And that's important. Too many WC students believe their own hype.

I think it boils down to this ^^^^

 

[drop bear]

This is where the Wing Chun and Hung Ga differ in their fundamental philosophies. Wing Chun is specialized and minimalistic while Hung Ga is so eclectic.

IMO the best Wing Chun is very simple and yet deep. While it is good do know something about similar styles (like
Fukien crane) and study their strengths, it is not a great idea to train deeply in contradictory systems.

Another way to approach cross-training is to seek out arts that do not overlap too much.... like Wing Chun, Escrima and a grappling art (my personal choices).

On the other hand, it is an excellent idea to regularly work and spar with people from many different systems.

Nah. It makes no difference. This idea that you need one coherent theme through your whole fighting method is not productive.

You just need a way to chain them together.

 

[geezer]

Nah. It makes no difference. This idea that you need one coherent theme through your whole fighting method is not productive.

You just need a way to chain them together.

I'm not saying you always have to fight the same way. But I do feel that it helps to keep things simple.

It also helps to avoid training opposing methods in similar applications. Like, for example trying to combine a system based on loose, relaxed execution with one that trains heavy dynamic tension. Especially if they train opposing approaches at the same range with the same sort of techniques (kicking, punching, etc.).

On the other hand, what you say above makes perfect sense to me if you are talking about moving from long range to close-in fighting, to grappling, and so on. Each has a different way of using energy and as you move from one to the next, yeah, you do "chain them together".

 

[drop bear]

I'm not saying you always have to fight the same way. But I do feel that it helps to keep things simple.

It also helps to avoid training opposing methods in similar applications. Like, for example trying to combine a system based on loose, relaxed execution with one that trains heavy dynamic tension. Especially if they train opposing approaches at the same range with the same sort of techniques (kicking, punching, etc.).

On the other hand, what you say above makes perfect sense to me if you are talking about moving from long range to close-in fighting, to grappling, and so on. Each has a different way of using energy and as you move from one to the next, yeah, you do "chain them together".


I

What it does is gives you the best possible solution based on performance rather than a theme.

And you suddenly switching around makes you awkward to deal with.

 

[geezer]

What it does is gives you the best possible solution based on performance rather than a theme.

And you suddenly switching around makes you awkward to deal with.

OK. I get that. Makes sense. You've changed my mind!


...or maybe I'm just saying that to make me awkward to deal with.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

It also helps to avoid training opposing methods in similar applications. Like, for example trying to combine a system based on loose, relaxed execution with one that trains heavy dynamic tension. Especially if they train opposing approaches at the same range with the same sort of techniques (kicking, punching, etc.).

I can't think of a single martial art that teaches fighting with heavy dynamic tension. That just wouldn't be effective. I think such systems primarily exist in the minds of those who want to talk about how their own art uses relaxed technique rather than brute force.

There are certainly martial arts which include training exercises which use dynamic tension. But those are exercises meant to develop specific attributes, not examples of how to fight. I think most Okinawan karate systems include the Sanchin kata (which utilizes heavy dynamic tension), but I can't imagine any Okinawan karate expert suggesting that you should be tense when you fight.

 

[dream]

I’ve used it. Wing chun is something that you Barely have to use for it to be effective. I just moved the guy without moving and once dominance was asserted that ended the confrontation. It was practically non physical

To win a fight without fighting is real Gung fu to me

(btw a common misconception of wing chun is that it’s limited; it’s the opposite , it’s the most sandbox open range Gung fu, ofc only at the higher levels…..the limitations of SLT are for beginners, intermediates take years for chum kiu, and biu gee, where the Real freedom and limitless of WC reveals it reserved for the truly committed. Wing chun is an abstract art, very chan. Form is not intent, intent manifests form. It’s very freeing actually, the most open martial art system I found )

 

[Mider]

Sifu Dominick Izzo has used it when he was a cop

i believe Phil Hartshorn has very good sparing footage using WC

Sifu Jon Rister works as security guard so I assume he’s used it

 

[Oily Dragon]

(btw a common misconception of wing chun is that it’s limited; it’s the opposite , it’s the most sandbox open range Gung fu, ofc only at the higher levels…..the limitations of SLT are for beginners, intermediates take years for chum kiu, and biu gee, where the Real freedom and limitless of WC reveals it reserved for the truly committed. Wing chun is an abstract art, very chan. Form is not intent, intent manifests form. It’s very freeing actually, the most open martial art system I found )

It's not a misconception. Wing Chun is one of the least effective martial arts available in 2023, based on the number of capable fighters.

That's largely because of it's limitations, which I blame largely on movies and people getting wrapping up in philosophy of martial arts, rather than bruising, which is vital to southern Shaolin training.

But Chan, and all its influence, does overshadow all martial arts. Don't matter what country. That's a truism. Historically, metaphorically, literally.

So I get where you are going with that "abstract" bit, but unfortunately the part about "the most sandbox open range gung fu" doesn't mesh with my experience.

The part about remote Qigong magic is funny, because once upon a time you couldn't say realistically "I can change the course of the future in a remote room!" but nowadays, of course everyone can.

 

[dream]

If Wing chun is ineffective it’s the lack of the artist ability. Wing chun is undoubtedly the most effective from a scientific viewpoint. Then if you add neigong (if you can do it that is), you would be a serious force. But since people think the esoteric practices and higher levels are just silly, I really have no interest in continuing to refer to them (esp if it’s a point of cynicism). Oh well if no one here knows about it and never heard of it being done, I get it. I guess I’m just a fortunate practitioner.

Train on boys!

 

[Mider]

It's not a misconception. Wing Chun is one of the least effective martial arts available in 2023, based on the number of capable fighters.

That's largely because of it's limitations, which I blame largely on movies and people getting wrapping up in philosophy of martial arts, rather than bruising, which is vital to southern Shaolin training.

But Chan, and all its influence, does overshadow all martial arts. Don't matter what country. That's a truism. Historically, metaphorically, literally.

So I get where you are going with that "abstract" bit, but unfortunately the part about "the most sandbox open range gung fu" doesn't mesh with my experience.

The part about remote Qigong magic is funny, because once upon a time you couldn't say realistically "I can change the course of the future in a remote room!" but nowadays, of course everyone can.

I just named guys who’ve used it. They aren’t abstract, it’s just that many in the MA community love to look at the worst examples

when do they ever discuss guys like the ones I just mentioned, or Adam Chan, Michael VanBeek, Gary Lam, never.

its always well they aren’t doing real wing Chun, it must always stay in a box

these discussions are pointless, what do they honestly achieve? most of you have your ideas and aren’t going to change them.