Hapkido doesn't use patterns?

[Acronym]

About Hapkido – Hapkido Australia

In Hapkido, as the student advances past the basic hand techniques, more emphasis is placed on small circular techniques and fast close quarter parrying which resemble the techniques of Kung Fu. Advanced weaponry techniques using the long pole Bo, cane and the fan are similar to those of Kung Fu.

 

[Flying Crane]

Nah he was dressed like a typical wushu performer. It might have very well been a wushu tape

Don't you think this guys tiger claw arm movements are very kung fu-ish? there's none of that in Karate katas.

I do not, although In full disclosure it isn’t a technique I use much, it is not heavily emphasized in my system.

Different people in different cultures do independently develop similar things, so not surprising if a Korean method would have a version of a tiger claw. In Chinese martial arts for example, there are more than one system, independently developed, that go by the name White Crane. Different development, different methods, not the same thing. But both inspired by the same bird.

 

[Flying Crane]

About Hapkido – Hapkido Australia

In Hapkido, as the student advances past the basic hand techniques, more emphasis is placed on small circular techniques and fast close quarter parrying which resemble the techniques of Kung Fu. Advanced weaponry techniques using the long pole Bo, cane and the fan are similar to those of Kung Fu.

It is possible that they were inspired to adopt some things from a kung fu method. It is also possible they are simply making a superficial comparison. I would need to know more, to make any evaluation.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Nah he was dressed like a typical wushu performer. It might have very well been a wushu tape

Don't you think this guys tiger claw arm movements are very kung fu-ish? there's none of that in Karate katas.

There are movements in the form that remind me of some of the things that exist in Jow Ga Kung Fu and other systems but it's more like the moves are different interpretations of the same idea.

For example: This reminds me of a technique found in Jow Ga Kung fu. If I were to try to grab a punch in mid air, this is the this the technique that I would use. The technique is crossing the hands while raising them. In Jow Ga we do this technique in Bow stance. It's something that I see often across fighting systems, so I'm not so quick to label it as "Kung Fu." The blocks / strikes that he does before are also seen across multiple systems.

He does a jumping spinning back fist which is found in the system that I train. The technique is the jumping spinning back fist with the legs close to the ground, In Jow Ga we leap in the aire and bring our legs up. We also retreat with our spinning back fist. But in the video he doesn't. So to me this looks like a different interpretation of what I do in Jow Ga Kung Fu.

Another way to think of what I'm trying to explain is. If someone told asked us to create a technique with a spinning back fist and a kick. We would all produce techniques that have the 2 strikes, some would look similar but they would more than likely follow our core principle of our system. MMA spinning backfist with a kick would have an MMA look to it, Tai Chi would have a Tai Chi a spinning backfist with a kick based. Some of us would have similar movements while others would be quite different. But because we developed the technique independent of each other, no one can really claim that the technique is "kung fu" or "karate". Sort of like the Jab, Uppercut, Cross punch.

 

[JowGaWolf]

My thoughts on TKD punching is that many TKD schools don't focus on the hand striking techniques like they should. I don't like TKD for this reason. But I do like what I see here.

Looking at the second video, some of this stuff is found in Kung Fu and other systems as well, but this has a TKD engine, but when I do a similar technique it has a Kung Fu engine. For example @ 1:11, this looks like the thrust punch that I do. The difference is the mechanics. He does a reverse punch then steps through. In kung fu we step through and punch at the same time. At 1:13 he does the same technique again but this time he does it more like I would do it in Kung Fu.

@ 1:33 he does a technique that looks similar to what Is found in Tai chi wave hands like cloud. It's hard to believe there's an elbow break in this this technique, but there is.

But my point is that, depending on the philosophy of the school I can see how some of the hand strikes may look like kung fu, but they really aren't. It's just that they probably do more punching than other schools.

 

[JowGaWolf]

About Hapkido – Hapkido Australia

In Hapkido, as the student advances past the basic hand techniques, more emphasis is placed on small circular techniques and fast close quarter parrying which resemble the techniques of Kung Fu. Advanced weaponry techniques using the long pole Bo, cane and the fan are similar to those of Kung Fu.

I would be careful with stuff like this. Sometimes stuff like this is marketing and not actually true of the system itself. I'm not saying that this is the case with this school, but I've come across it many times.

There's nothing that I've seen in Hapkido that moves like Kung Fu. To say that it resembles just means that it looks like it. Sort of like how cars from 2 different company may look the similar on the outside with body shape and design, but they aren't the same.

It may be possible that the Hapkido teacher has trained more than one system and he uses things from other systems and integrates them into Hapkido, but at that point they are creating a hybrid Hapkido system and probably should rename it it. Maybe Hapkido followed by the last name of the teacher who is integrating other stuff.

Some schools will try to say that they are "just like System A, System B, System C in an effort to attack students who have incomplete information about systems. From a website marketing perspective. This Hapkido comparison page would also get visitor searching fro BJJ, Kung Fu, Aikido, MMA schools. https://hapkidoaustralia.com/about-hapkido/

I'm always cautious of schools who compare themselves in this manner by comparing similarities like that. Two cars may look the similar on the outside but totally different when you get on the inside and when you drive.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

There's more Kung Fu styles than atoms in the universe. I am referring to a particular branch that emphasises high kicks and spins

What branch? Looking at the first form in the first post, I actually wouldn't think it belongs to any style. Certain styles I've been in have encouraged people to create a form for practice after 2-3 years..this looks like one of the first tries on that, more than anything else.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Nah he was dressed like a typical wushu performer. It might have very well been a wushu tape

Don't you think this guys tiger claw arm movements are very kung fu-ish? there's none of that in Karate katas.

I watched the first two minutes of that, and it looked like variations of different shaolin kempo karate combinations/forms.

 

[Acronym]

What branch? .

Northern Shaolin.

 

[Flying Crane]

Northern Shaolin.

Northern Shaolin can actually refer to a number of methods, so that’s pretty broad.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Unlike the Korean martial arts of Taekwondo, Hapkido generally does not use forms & patterns as part of its training.

Hapkido - Black Belt Wiki

Then why do these forms exist?




https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=47FngUp6etA

That goes back to my point about variation. I don’t think long forms are common in HKD - certainly nothing I know of that would have come from Daito-Ryu. But sometimes folks add something to the system for their own reason.

 

[WaterGal]

My clip was from the World Hapkido Federation.... Biggest in the world, I think, and they do patterns...

The 2 main Hapkido federations are the IHF (International HKD Federation), and KHF (Korea Hapkido Federation). The IHF does not use poomse/hyung, and I don't think the KHF does either.

There are many other Hapkido organizations and unaffiliated HKD schools all over the world. They all have their own curriculum and program, which may include poomse/hyung, weapons work, BJJ-style grappling, or whatever the instructor likes.

Also, some Hapkido schools teach KKW TKD or some other martial arts curriculum alongside Hapkido in the same class, as sort of a combined program - I'm familiar with an IHF HKD school that also teaches the Taegeuk forms from KKW TKD, for example.

 

[WaterGal]

I would be careful with stuff like this. Sometimes stuff like this is marketing and not actually true of the system itself. I'm not saying that this is the case with this school, but I've come across it many times.

There's nothing that I've seen in Hapkido that moves like Kung Fu. To say that it resembles just means that it looks like it. Sort of like how cars from 2 different company may look the similar on the outside with body shape and design, but they aren't the same.

It may be possible that the Hapkido teacher has trained more than one system and he uses things from other systems and integrates them into Hapkido, but at that point they are creating a hybrid Hapkido system and probably should rename it it. Maybe Hapkido followed by the last name of the teacher who is integrating other stuff.

Some schools will try to say that they are "just like System A, System B, System C in an effort to attack students who have incomplete information about systems. From a website marketing perspective. This Hapkido comparison page would also get visitor searching fro BJJ, Kung Fu, Aikido, MMA schools. https://hapkidoaustralia.com/about-hapkido/

I'm always cautious of schools who compare themselves in this manner by comparing similarities like that. Two cars may look the similar on the outside but totally different when you get on the inside and when you drive.

Yeah, that sounds like marketing copy to me. Very few people who aren't martial arts fans have ever heard of Hapkido, but everybody's heard of Kung Fu, BJJ, and MMA. So if you can say, it's kind of like these other more famous things, people might give it a try. Like how people will describe their business as, like, "Uber for dog grooming" or something. The potential customer knows what that other thing is, so the comparison helps them understand what the new thing is.

 

[WaterGal]

You are referring to the YouTube video lined in the opening post, yes?

If so, those do not look like any Chinese martial art that I have seen. If I was shown those videos without any information, my guess would be that they are Korean. That is what they look like to me.

Yeah, the first one feels like a Taekwondo form, though it's not one I'm familiar with.

 

[oftheherd11]

Northern Shaolin.

I am amazed by your knowledge of MA, especially Hapkido. How long have you studied? Are you belted?

 

[oftheherd11]

Not if you google the art.. Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu is primarily a grappling art. The patterns are basically all striking and blocking.

There is obviously huge emphasis on joint manipulation in Hapkido but both forms and sparring is more Kung Fu and TKD-ish.

The forms look mostly northern Kung Fu to me. We have a lot of kung fu guys in here so they can verify or deny this.

Well one must be careful when looking for information on the internet I guess.

 

[bushido]

There are no forms in HKD. I have seen a lot over the years that have claimed to be, but none that could be traced beyond that school. Cash grab, just like belt stripes.

"In Hapkido, as the student advances past the basic hand techniques, more emphasis is placed on small circular techniques"
True... HKD is circular. When you begin, the circle is large and exaggerated. As you advance, the circle gets smaller, pivots get sharper, shoulder and hip circles look almost nonexistent, and everything happens in your center.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

There are no forms in HKD. I have seen a lot over the years that have claimed to be, but none that could be traced beyond that school. Cash grab, just like belt stripes.

"In Hapkido, as the student advances past the basic hand techniques, more emphasis is placed on small circular techniques"
True... HKD is circular. When you begin, the circle is large and exaggerated. As you advance, the circle gets smaller, pivots get sharper, shoulder and hip circles look almost nonexistent, and everything happens in your center.

If the school trains HKD, and the forms are taught in that school, wouldn't that mean that they are forms in HKD? Maybe not in HKD's origins, or not consistent through HKD, but all martial arts evolve.

 

[bushido]

I would not take it that way MTW... I would take it that perhaps their core is from another style and they carried and adapted their forms over into their HKD teachings, which is fine for them. It could mean that they were taught HKD and added their own forms as a way to practice, also fine by me, as if my opinion would matter, lol. Or they founded their own style of HKD and added forms. But, by my experience over the years, I have never been shown a form by any 1st, 2nd or 3rd gen HKDist.

 

[Ji Yuu]

My thoughts on TKD punching is that many TKD schools don't focus on the hand striking techniques like they should. I don't like TKD for this reason. But I do like what I see here.

Looking at the second video, some of this stuff is found in Kung Fu and other systems as well, but this has a TKD engine, but when I do a similar technique it has a Kung Fu engine. For example @ 1:11, this looks like the thrust punch that I do. The difference is the mechanics. He does a reverse punch then steps through. In kung fu we step through and punch at the same time. At 1:13 he does the same technique again but this time he does it more like I would do it in Kung Fu.

@ 1:33 he does a technique that looks similar to what Is found in Tai chi wave hands like cloud. It's hard to believe there's an elbow break in this this technique, but there is.

But my point is that, depending on the philosophy of the school I can see how some of the hand strikes may look like kung fu, but they really aren't. It's just that they probably do more punching than other schools.

This looks like the Tae Kwon Do I have always practiced. It is also resembles what I teach. Seeing these videos is quite refreshing.