GOD! We Shouldnt argue?

[Corporal Hicks]

Hi there, Must get this out before I forget what I'm thinking about, you know how it feels when the thought is quite deep and starts trickling out of your mind.

Well basically, dont you think humans shouldnt argue about God?

Everything and Anything is always a concept of our human mind. A human intreptation brought on by our minds.
So therfore even our brains are flawed when we are argueing religion or even anything because it is always limited to our concept of everything.

Until we can see beyound human concept we can never understand, and and this is impossible.

It is pointless to argue the exist of god because existance is a human concept as well as a non-god exist is also a human concept.

To think that there is anything out there, or around us or whatever is also a human concept.
Can you see what I'm getting at, i'm confusing myself also.

Its like, imagin a a circle inside another circle

The inner circle is smaller than the bigger it is = human concept i.e. everything we know or believe to know etc etc

The bigger circle is outside this = is it nothing that we know, but I cannot say it is greater really because that would be a concept of my mind.

Can you see what I'm getting at?
I'm confused again lol!

Regards

Then again humans will never believe what I say for sure because I believe it is human (there we go) to always look for a reason behind everything!

 

[kenpo tiger]

Because we are human we encourage exchange of ideas. Not everyone is going to agree on everything, but that's what makes the world go 'round (to belabor your circle/circular logic example that much more!)

Wouldn't it be boring if we were all exactly the same?

 

[MA-Caver]

Because we are human we encourage exchange of ideas. Not everyone is going to agree on everything, but that's what makes the world go 'round (to belabor your circle/circular logic example that much more!)

Wouldn't it be boring if we were all exactly the same?

Exactly KT. How very boring if we were all the same. Einstein said that "Imagination is more important than knowledge." Without imagination we would not have the idea of concepts, the idea that there are things that we don't know or understand (your outer circle Corporal).
We were given the greatest gift when we were created/born... free-will/choice. In order for us to have even THAT, we had to been given the gift of imagination. Without it we would not have agriculture, architecture, medicine, science, transportation, nothing. We would as a human race simply DIE. Imagination gives us something to choose from. Imagination gives us the means to acquire knowledge. Imagination gives us the means to be able to exchange ideas because we have the ability to conceive them, to have concepts.
We should argue the existence of God, because it encourages us to look at the bigger picture and to realize that there is no way that WE, mortal man could have done any of the things that He has done/created. If you question that concept... then go outside... find a tree... jump up and grab a leaf and then make me one just like it ... from nothing and that is JUST the leaf not the tree from whence it came. Or even better create another Everest.
Anything and Everything are concepts of the human minds yes, but what do you expect? ... we are ... human. :idunno:

 

[Corporal Hicks]

Exactly KT. How very boring if we were all the same. Einstein said that "Imagination is more important than knowledge." Without imagination we would not have the idea of concepts, the idea that there are things that we don't know or understand (your outer circle Corporal).
We were given the greatest gift when we were created/born... free-will/choice. In order for us to have even THAT, we had to been given the gift of imagination. Without it we would not have agriculture, architecture, medicine, science, transportation, nothing. We would as a human race simply DIE. Imagination gives us something to choose from. Imagination gives us the means to acquire knowledge. Imagination gives us the means to be able to exchange ideas because we have the ability to conceive them, to have concepts.
We should argue the existence of God, because it encourages us to look at the bigger picture and to realize that there is no way that WE, mortal man could have done any of the things that He has done/created. If you question that concept... then go outside... find a tree... jump up and grab a leaf and then make me one just like it ... from nothing and that is JUST the leaf not the tree from whence it came. Or even better create another Everest.
Anything and Everything are concepts of the human minds yes, but what do you expect? ... we are ... human. :idunno:

Dont get me wrong I didnt mean it 2 sound as if It was meant to be boring, I was just puzzled by the prospect of it. What do you mean he has done/created? I'm just showing you that thats exactly what you believe but only because you are perceiving it that way. I think. :idunno:

 

[Adept]

Wouldn't it be boring if we were all exactly the same?

The millions of people who have been slaughtered simply because they were different might actually enjoy the prospect of life being boring. Boring means safe.

 

[MA-Caver]

The millions of people who have been slaughtered simply because they were different might actually enjoy the prospect of life being boring. Boring means safe.

Baa, baaa

 

[Darksoul]

-There is nothing wrong with arguing the existence of God. There is something wrong with controlling the lives of others who don't agree with you. As far as I could remember, and I questioned a friend of mine who is a devout Jehovah's Witness, Jesus never forced anyone to be Christian. It seems to me that some students never learn from the teacher. We need to argue about life, to learn about ourselves and others, to grow as who we are, whether that be better Christians, Jews, Muslims, or just plain simple folk.


A---)

 

[Adept]

Baa, baaa

Maybe it is like being a sheep. But ask the orphans of Kosovo if they would rather have live parents who were all the same, or dead ones who were different.

Or ask the refugess in the Sudan, or the survivors of the holocaust, or the people who have to live in Israel and Palestine...

Difference means inequality and suffering. Sometimes that can spice life up, and sometimes it can end it.

 

[MA-Caver]

We can do that but I think we discussed this on a different thread somewhere.
There are always going to be people who will submit, follow, be passive and down trodden. Jesus pointed this out to his disciples a long time ago and charged us (mankind) that we should help them out when/where/how we may.
No one can choose who/where they are born, they just are. It's up to them to decide to break free from their present states and make their lives better, to make their lives what they want it to be.
Choice that is freely given and freely taken by the individual.
It is sad that there are people out there in the world who will take another's choice from them. Even sadder that the ones who's choices are taken from don't choose to hold on to their freedom to make those choices; they submit, follow be passive and are down trodden.
We can choose to idly stand by and shake our heads at their lot, or we can go help when/where/how we may. We can use our imagination to find ways to help them. We can follow our hearts to find the best way to go about doing just that.

 

[heretic888]

Hi there, Must get this out before I forget what I'm thinking about, you know how it feels when the thought is quite deep and starts trickling out of your mind.

Well basically, dont you think humans shouldnt argue about God?

Everything and Anything is always a concept of our human mind. A human intreptation brought on by our minds.
So therfore even our brains are flawed when we are argueing religion or even anything because it is always limited to our concept of everything.

Until we can see beyound human concept we can never understand, and and this is impossible.

It is pointless to argue the exist of god because existance is a human concept as well as a non-god exist is also a human concept.

To think that there is anything out there, or around us or whatever is also a human concept.
Can you see what I'm getting at, i'm confusing myself also.

Its like, imagin a a circle inside another circle

The inner circle is smaller than the bigger it is = human concept i.e. everything we know or believe to know etc etc

The bigger circle is outside this = is it nothing that we know, but I cannot say it is greater really because that would be a concept of my mind.

Can you see what I'm getting at?
I'm confused again lol!

Regards

Then again humans will never believe what I say for sure because I believe it is human (there we go) to always look for a reason behind everything!

I am suddenly reminded of the "noble silence" of the Buddha. In fact, a lot of your ideas sound almost like baby-talk Theravada Buddhism metaphysics.

You realize, of course, that you're treading dangeously close to the 'non-dual' conception of the Ultimate espoused by various contemplatives and mystical traditions (most well known among Eastern traditions)??

If you postulate an Ultimate that is truly non-dual and trans-rational that throws a 'personal god' out the window. It also throws out assigning gender to any 'god' out the window. It also throws out a 'judging god' that assigns some things 'sacred' and some 'profane' out the window.

Because, ultimately, all those things (gender, personality, and moral judgement) are all human relational conditions -- intimately restricted by duality along with everything else manifest (even ideas and thoughts, including the one I'm expressing right now, are restricted by duality).

Good reading material would be Meister Eckhart (from a Christian perspective) or Nagarjuna (from a Buddhist perspective). Might want to throw in a little Plotinus, too.

Laterz.

 

[Nightingale]

We will argue about god until we have devotion without fanaticism.
We will argue about god until we stop trying to improve others' faith and work on our own.
We will argue about god until we can agree to disagree.
We will argue about god until we realize that our neighbors can still be our friends even if they believe in a different religion.
We will argue about god until we stop killing each other in god's name.

 

[Andrew Green]

The millions of people who have been slaughtered simply because they were different might actually enjoy the prospect of life being boring. Boring means safe.

We're human, we will always be able to find a reason to slaughter each other. Religion just happens to be one of our more tried and tested ones. In fact, an argument could be made that the primary function of Religion is not to unite people as a whole, but rather to unite them against other people.

 

[Adept]

In fact, an argument could be made that the primary function of Religion is not to unite people as a whole, but rather to unite them against other people.

I imagine it would be quite a strong arument, as well.

 

[raedyn]

In fact, an argument could be made that the primary function of Religion is not to unite people as a whole, but rather to unite them against other people.

Though that's not always the intention, I would agree that this is often how it works in practice.

 

[heretic888]

Its an arbitrary judgment to place on "religion", really...

Most human beings hold exclusivistic worldviews and belief systems. It matters not one bit if said system is "religious" in content or not.

Both Stalin and Mao were staunch atheists, believers in the secular Marxist revolution. I seem to recall more than one slaughtering that was initiated on their behalf.

On the flip side, we see many good things coming from "religion". Take a look at the inspirations from Martin Luther King, Jr. and Mahatmas Ghandi. Or, if'n you're into art, look at the poetry of William Blake and Ralph Waldo Emerson.

Hell, even August Comte suggested there being a "pope of positivism".

I think all of this has more to do with developmental issues, and nothing to do with "religion" per se.