George Zmmerman trial begins...

billc said:
Zimmerman is 5' 7" and Martin was 5' 11". Keep in mind That was Martin's height without shoes and without taking into account the extra inches the hoodie gave to his height in the dark. It doesn't surprise me that most people don't know about the size difference, because the only pictures most people are shown are when Martin was a kid.
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He was average height at 5' 11" but skinny. Zimmerman is short but stocky and had 40 lbs on Martin.

Size is subjective. More accurate to say that z was shorter but thicker.

Another thing to consider, and the grapplers here will understand I think. There is something. To the idea of "man strength." I've rolled with 190 lbs high school wrestlers the same size as me and much more fit. I was much stronger than them. Hard to explain why.


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There is also the matter of your heart being in the fight. From testimony, we know that Martin initiated face to face contact with Zimmerman when he could have just gone back to his father's girlfriend's home. We know from an eye witness to the fight just before the gun shot, that Zimmerman was on the bottom getting hit "mma style" by Martin, and Zimmerman was yelling for help to the witness. Martin did not stop the attack when the witness yelled at the two to stop doing what they were doing. It was immediately after the witness went to get a phone that the shot rang out, so however the difference in size, Martin was apparently winning the fight.

What I don't think a lot of people thinking about the fight take into account is that it wasn't a fist fight, but a criminal assault. Dr. Baden, famed coroner, and Bob Beckel of the Fox cable news show both talked about in their "neighborhoods," when two guys got into a fight they never pulled guns and shot the other guy. This wasn't a bar fight, it wasn't at a party. If what Zimmerman says is true, and we have a partial account from a sworn witness, Martin initiated the conversation (as per the person he was on the phone with ) and from Zimmerman, Martin punched him in the face. This was in the dark, with Zimmerman following someone he had called 911 about, and he was getting a real beating. How did Zimmerman know that Martin didn't have a weapon? Say a knife? One of my past instructors was an M.P. in the air force for 22 years. He was stabbed once while breaking up a fight. He told us he just thought the guy had hit him in the back, until one of his fellow M.P.'s said, "Hey, you were stabbed." Punched by surprise, the attacker following him to the ground, in the dark, being beaten on by someone who looked larger than himself, the only help having seemingly left the scene...? How did he know how the attack would end? The adrenaline rush affecting his senses? It really isn't a stretch to think that shooting his larger, more violent attacker was the only thing left.
 
billc said:
Not Guity........
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As I expected.....a murder charge? That's prosecutorial misconduct in my book. Manslaughter? I think that could have been argued. Even if the judge allowed a conviction on a lesser included offense, the jury likely didn't take kindly to a throw it against the wall and see what sticks prosecution.

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I am amazed...I would have figured since they asked, manslaughter it would be....

and Florida isn't burning yet....
 
Tgace said:
As I expected.....a murder charge? That's prosecutorial misconduct in my book. Manslaughter? I think that could have been argued. Even if the judge allowed a conviction on a lesser included offense, the jury likely didn't take kindly to a throw it against the wall and see what sticks prosecution.

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I agree. I think an initial charge of manslaughter and a case built toward that would have stuck.



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Tgace said:
As I expected.....a murder charge? That's prosecutorial misconduct in my book.
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Aye, but "try 'em high" happens often enough in less-publicized trials, eh?
 
Carol said:
Aye, but "try 'em high" happens often enough in less-publicized trials, eh?
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Sure... but how do you plan to run a case of Murder 2 in a case like this? Most try em high cases at least meet the elements of the charge.

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The overbroad stand your ground law is the problem. The verdict itself was undoubtedly correct under that law.
 
The woman got a bad decision. I would think that she might get her case thrown out on appeal. At least I hope so. I would like to get the details of the case, like who the judge was and what kind of dumb people may have been on the jury.

The stand your ground law is meant to keep innocent people from getting sued by criminals, when the victim defends themselves from attack. I think it is necessary or you see victims getting arrested after they are attacked and the criminal goes free. You see it over seas in Britian where a victim uses a weapon to defend themselves and then they are arrested just because they used a weapon to protect against the attack.

http://www.naturalnews.com/037166_self_defense_homeowners_violent_criminals.html

(
NaturalNews) There is a saying - in the U.S., anyway - that a "man's house is his castle." That saying can carry a host of meanings, not the least of which is that a man's home is his sacred sanctuary and it cannot be violated by anyone.


But that's here in the United States, where political correctness in the legal system hasn't quite reached the level it has in our cousin country, Great Britain.
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In one recent incident, a farm tenant and his wife, both of whom had suffered a number of break-ins already, were arrested and jailed after using a legally-owned firearm (not an easy thing to obtain in the gun-free zone of England) to shoot at and wound one of two burglars who surprised the couple in the night.
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In 2009, millionaire businessman Munir Hussain fought back against a knife-wielding intruder with a metal pole and cricket bat; the burglar had tied up his family at their Buckinghamshire home.


For daring to defend himself and his family, Hussain was jailed for more than two years, though his attacker was spared prison.


Lucky for Hussain he eventually got an understanding judge who reduced his sentence to one year in jail, which was suspended.
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Well let's see what happens when the family files a Civil wrongful death suit. George is not out of the woods yet
 
http://www.newsmax.com/newswidget/d...utm_medium=nmwidget&utm_campaign=widgetphase1

Dershowitz said not only should Zimmerman have not been charged with second-degree murder, but prosecutors should not have pushed to have manslaughter and child abuse added to the list of possible jury verdicts.

"[It's] utterly irresponsible. … The idea that the prosecution can try the case on a murder theory and then, at the last minute, substitute manslaughter, even though it seems to be permitted generally under Florida law — it's a big mistake to allow it in a case like this,” he said.

"And then the very idea of even suggesting child abuse in a case like this is so irresponsible."

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more on the scandal that brought Zimmerman to trial...

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/0...-over-misleading-affidavit-of-probable-cause/

There should be a special prosecutor appointed to investigate this special prosecution.


In early April 2012, Special Prosecutor Angela Corey decided not to take the George Zimmerman case to a Grand Jury, opting for the filing of a Criminal Information which then was presented along with an Affidavit of Probable Cause. The Court found probable cause for the charges.
It turned out, once pre-trial discovery was exchanged, that the affidavit upon which probable cause was found had not disclosed a lot of significant exculpatory details. There was no mention of the significant injuries to Zimmerman, or of John Good’s eyewitness account that Martin was on top of Zimmerman hitting him Mixed Martial Arts style. All the Affidavit said on the subject of the physical confrontation was that there was “a struggle.”
The Affidavit identified the voice screaming for help as that of Martin based on an interview with his mother, but did not reveal what we now know, that Martin’s father initially denied it was his son.
The Affidavit also was inaccurate, such as alleging that the 911 operator “instructed Zimmerman not” to follow Martin — a false fact which lives on in the media mythology of the case.
Alan Dershowitz was livid.
From the post, If Angela Corey threatened suit against Dershowitz and Harvard, she needs to step down from Zimmerman case, June 7,2012, Dershowitz was prophetic:
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This is a point that I made in another thread on the Zimmerman trial...Everyone said that Zimmerman should have stayed in his car and just dialed 911. Well...this is exactly what everyone else in the community did...and Martin was shot and killed. If anyone of those witnesses had gone out that night and pulled Martin off of Zimmerman, or at least gone out there and let Zimmerman know people were there to help...he wouldn't have felt the need to use deadly force. However, John Good, Mrs. Sydeka, and the Minaloos...they did what everyone says Zimmerman should have done...they stayed in their homes and called 911...and Martin died. John Good for example saw the two fighting. He called out for the two of them to stop, and when Martin continued beating Zimmerman, as per Good's account, Good stayed inside, closed his door and went to retrieve his phone...and then the gun shot rang out. If anyone had stepped out and perhaps at least tried to intervene...instead of doing what a lot of people advised Zimmerman should have done...Martin would probably be alive today...
 
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