Gather and Release

[Appledog]

"The method followed is very well documented with most of the other practitioners, who follow it able to do the same things at a deeper level..."

Ok, documented where? What lineage?

 

[windwalker099]

Ok, documented where?

Our practice can be said to be based on
Wang Youngquans, method.

More information can be found here.

汪永泉授楊式太極拳語錄及拳照
Wang Yongquan Writings on Yang Style Tai Chi
Chuan

Spirit, intent, and qi must be able to extend outside the body and then return to it. Extending the spirit, intent, and qi outside the body is the primary difference between martial arts training and health cultivation training.

When intent and qi extend outside the body, they can "penetrate" the opponent's body. It is important to note that after extending intent and qi outside, they must be retracted along the original path to perform "internal and external qi exchange" to strengthen one's skill. If they are not retracted, it will damage the internal qi.

To determine if your intent and qi have extended beyond your body, you need to ask your opponent. In the initial stages, when you make contact with your opponent, if they feel overwhelmed, it indicates that your internal qi has reached their body.

Through continued study and practice, you will gradually be able to "listen," "ask," "control," and "release," using intent and qi to engage in martial techniques.

 

[Appledog]

Our practice can be said to be based on
Wang Youngquans, method.

More information can be found here.

Ok, so Wang was a student of Yang Jian-hou, Yang Shao-hou and Yang Cheng-fu. From your link and 'Wang’s most characteristic skill – the principle of “Zhong (Center) Bumping Zhong (Center)”' it all seems pretty standard -- that's one of the early things we learned in our lineage too. So why the need to distance yourself from Yang tai chi as a whole? What's up with this mysterious un-named master? The way you describe things makes them seem unapproachable. Maybe that's what I am confused about. You have never presented any real clear training path to where you are at and you seem to have rejected all the classical advice given by the Yang family.

 

[windwalker099]

You have never presented any real clear training path to where you are at and you seem to have rejected all the classical advice given by the Yang family.

More questions ?

Might consider presenting evidence of your practice,
before asking others about theirs.

“Zhong (Center) Bumping Zhong (Center) " that's one of the early things we learned in our lineage too.

Good, you should be able to write a lot about it....

 

[Same Trick]

The questions in the OP are exceedingly simple, yet no one has tried to answer them.


Of course. The first thing I would say is that it is not abstract. That is one of the issues. In the modern day people have regressed and become less moral and more tense. It takes several years to work out the modern kinks in the body and re-educate people to traditional values. Once this is done, then traditional martial arts instruction along the above lines can begin. Until that time, you can still learn martial arts, but you cannot learn the neigong associated with them. That is the meaning of the post.

You just plying mysterious, certainly everyone on here know what’s the taijitu(yin/yang) about, and some here can most probably apply it’s principles in combat.

 

[Same Trick]

This guy.

His actions led to some new regulation of martial arts. All the regulations push martial arts to align with cultural and national values. MMA is also bound by such regulations. The Cultural and National Value them is going to always pop up

"

"Cultural and Moral Education: The new regulations emphasize the importance of understanding martial arts culture, morality, and etiquette as fundamental aspects of engagement. This is to ensure that MMA practices align with cultural and national values"

My guess is that these changes will probably modernize Kung Fu where the title changes from teachers to coaches and that the tradition of lineage will have less meaning.

Nothing really new. The concept of WuDe has a long tradition in China.

Funnily I was reprimanded about not showing enough of it on another(American)martial arts forum. Must be my many years ihere in China


What Is WuDe? | UCB Program

 

[Appledog]

You just plying mysterious, certainly everyone on here know what’s the taijitu(yin/yang) about, and some here can most probably apply it’s principles in combat.

No, it's not that complex. I'm trying to have a discussion. If what you say is true and "everyone knows", and "some here can ... apply it's principles" then this should be a pretty interesting discussion! There should be plenty of answers.

 

[Same Trick]

No, it's not that complex. I'm trying to have a discussion. If what you say is true and "everyone knows", and "some here can ... apply it's principles" then this should be a pretty interesting discussion! There should be plenty of answers.

Yes thats right it’s not complex, and as I guessed most in the thread have a pretty good grasp, so in a way not too much to discuss?

 

[Appledog]

Yes thats right it’s not complex, and as I guessed most in the thread have a pretty good grasp, so in a way not too much to discuss?

Then what topic do you feel is high enough level to discuss? This is some pretty major stuff actually, I don't think people really understand what it means.

There is a famous painting hanging in our training hall;

Maybe this is more to your liking?

 

[Same Trick]

Then what topic do you feel is high enough level to discuss? This is some pretty major stuff actually, I don't think people really understand what it means.

There is a famous painting hanging in our training hall;

View attachment 32087



Maybe this is more to your liking?

Hmm cheap try of a twist there.
You seem to imply I’ve stated that ppl’s on here skill/ knowledge levels are low ? I’ve said no such thing.

That painting is totally useless if you run a martial arts school

beverly hills ninja - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

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[JowGaWolf]

Might consider presenting evidence of your practice,
before asking others about theirs.

This has turned into a scholar's debate, it began with a painting, and it will end that way.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

What is the Taijitu and what does it mean?

It seems to me that you train Taiji for Taiji's sake. Is Taiji the only MA system that you train?

The reason that I ask is because you seem to restrict all your thinking by the Taiji system only. Have you ever tried to think about MA in general without any style boundary in mind?

A: What is the Taiji and what does it mean?
B: Is there any reason that I should care about it?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

This has turned into a scholar's debate, it began with a painting, and it will end that way.

Some people said, "If you understand Yin (0) and Yang (1), you will understand computer". Unfortunately, computer is much more complicate than just 0 and 1.

A wrestler knows how to borrow force (Ying), and use force against force (Yang). He may not know the Ying/Yang theory.

A striker is trained to land his fist on his opponent's face. Why does he need to know Yin/Yang theory for?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Animals

A striker is trained to land his fist on his opponent's face. Why does he need to know Yin/Yang theory for?

To talk about balance is different from experiencing it in sparring and fighting. Scholars will talk about what they were told. Someone who spars/ fighting will talk about the same things from experiencing it and applying through sparring/fighting and the understanding between the two will never meet.

 

[marvin8]

Then what topic do you feel is high enough level to discuss? This is some pretty major stuff actually, I don't think people really understand what it means.

There is a famous painting hanging in our training hall;

View attachment 32087



Maybe this is more to your liking?

Some info...

HME Nei Gong :: Heaven Man Earth

HME NeiGong - "Nei Gong" literally means "internal skill"...

heavenmanearth.com

Neijing tu (Chart of the Inner Warp)

Neijing Tu - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Then what topic do you feel is high enough level to discuss?

Fighting strategy is high level discussion.

How to

- enter your opponent's kicking range without being kicked?
- enter your opponent's punching range without being punched?
- ...

Everybody will have interest in this high-level discussion.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Fighting strategy is high level discussion.

If we are speaking of Martial Arts then this would be high level. If we are speaking of Spirituality then it will be more about Yin/Yang. To be honest, I have never seen Yin/Yang discussions talk about fighting strategy or fighting in general.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If we are speaking of Martial Arts then this would be high level. If we are speaking of Spirituality then it will be more about Yin/Yang. To be honest, I have never seen Yin/Yang discussions talk about fighting strategy or fighting in general.

These are Yin. You borrow your opponent's force, yield, sticky, follow, and lead him into the emptiness. Wrestlers treat this as "common sense" and don't talk about it.





This is Yang. You use attack 1 to set up attack 2.

 

[windwalker099]

Some people said, "If you understand Yin (0) and Yang (1), you will understand computer". Unfortunately, computer is much more complicate than just 0 and 1.

A wrestler knows how to borrow force (Ying), and use force against force (Yang). He may not know the Ying/Yang theory.

A striker is trained to land his fist on his opponent's face. Why does he need to know Yin/Yang theory for?

.
What makes Taiji, Taiji?
Whether one has to know the theory if they are trained in the method is debatable.
Wrestlers and boxers understand through practice.

Theory is only good for the context of understanding, not the understanding itself.

These are Yin. You borrow your opponent's force, yield, sticky, follow, and lead him into the emptiness. Wrestlers treat this as "common sense" and don't talk about it.

Outlines the understanding for the work you do..
Others may have a different understanding for the work they do.

In China, when they asked if one "understood" something it was expected that
one would show this through application or demonstration..


Good read

EXPLODING BODY-WEIGHT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT WEAPON IN FIST-FIGHTING OR IN BOXING. Never forget that!

 

[windwalker099]

He may not know the Ying/Yang theory.

Why does he need to know Yin/Yang theory for?

All good questions...
Maybe looking at it from the other side might give another perspective

The original intention of Chinese martial arts is to fight the enemy, it is a life-and-death fighting skill, so there must be no ambiguity in the training of fighting skills! People who truly master the superb martial arts based on the concept of Tai Chi are rare in China.

If you have the opportunity to meet such a master, you will know what kind of people some so-called traditional martial arts masters are. So far, some so-called Tai Chi masters or masters (whether in the past or present), from their works and the videos they left behind, have not entered the core circle of Tai Chi.

Some people who are good at "force transfer" and "leverage force" have only reached the edge of the Tai Chi circle!

If martial arts cannot be used for fighting, then it cannot be called martial arts!
It can be called certain exercises (routine martial arts for health and fitness is another matter), certain guiding techniques, certain exercises.

If martial arts without fighting are still called martial arts, then be careful of the person who teaches the so-called martial arts, because he may be a local hooligan or a fraud in the martial arts circle! Be careful not to be fooled!

The above article may make some people unhappy, so let them be unhappy! I hope this article can give a kind reminder to friends who want to learn real things, so that they can avoid pitfalls and take fewer detours when exploring the road of martial arts.