Gaseous phase of motion

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by Nightingale
I like your new avatar, Clyde!

Billy made it up for me, I like it too LOL

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[Michael Billings]

... are you now LTKKA? Given the new avatar you are using is the same as the one you designed for Clyde?

Just curious? I know you were UKS, but trained with Frank Trejo on and off, and were going to IKKA technique line nights at the Pasadena school. I hate not living in the "Kenpo Mecca" - then again, I hated the smog and TRAFFIC. My dad just sold his house in South Pas so no place close to stay. They kept the West Covina one however.

 

[dcence]

Thanks for the comments, Zen Dragon.

It seems to me that Gaseous strikes are simultaneous strikes rather than strikes that are executed within qurarter beat or eighth beat timing sequences.

Certainly, simultaneous strikes are part of it, as in say Snakes of Wisdom. Timing applies in liquid and gaseous, but that is not even relevant or the point of my post. The timing is not what you should be focusing on in this discussion because it is a part of both liquid and gaseouos motion. If you understand the mass attack techniques, you will understand that rebounding strikes between multiple opponents and self is in fact a gaseous principle. Take Gathering of the Snakes with the hand and foot strikes that rebound off one opponent to strike another. That is what that technique is teaching with those rebounding strikes. Your weapons are acting like the molecules of a gas colliding with the sides of a jar or another molecule and moving in another direction until it hits something else. (See Newton's laws of physics).

like liquid sloshing around in a container

Avoid sloshing when you can. LOL

This analogy, to me, has more to do with how the liquids and gases move on an asthetic level compared to the human anatomy than how these things move on a molecular level compared to the human anatomy.

Actually it is both. Don't just look at the surface. It certainly has to do with how a liquid and gas move as a whole in a macro sense, but if you stop there, then you miss part of it. It also has to do with what the different states do on a micro, molecular level, as Mr. Parker explained it. There is often more to his analogies than what is on the surface. That is why I said it is a matter of perspective, but sometimes a perrspective is only perceiving half of something.

Well, Billy, you have been listening

If you are listening to Clyde -- be careful. LOL

Thanks for the input. Remember, it is just an analogy. Like Shrek's onion analogy -- many layers. A person will take out of it what his ability to understand allows.

Derek

 

[Bill Lear]

Originally posted by Michael Billings

"Billy, off topic but... are you now LTKKA? Given the new avatar you are using is the same as the one you designed for Clyde?"

Yes. I’ve been studying at Mr. Tatum’s school for a little more than a month now. I originally started studying American Kenpo in his studio back in 1994. While some of the faces have changed the studio sure has remained the same.

Originally posted by Michael Billings

"I know you were UKS, but trained with Frank Trejo on and off, and were going to IKKA technique line nights at the Pasadena school."

Yep, I was a member of the UKS. There are many things that contributed to my leaving Bryan Hawkins Studio in West Los Angeles, but nothing personal. Mostly it had to do with the commute.

I still see Frank every once in a while. As for the technique lines in the Pasadena Studio... the last one I attended was at the Homecoming Camp which was a blast.

I don't know if I'll have the opportunity to give you a call tonight, but maybe someltime this weekend?

 

[Bill Lear]

Originally posted by dcence

Thanks for the comments, Zen Dragon.

Oh man! Here we go! :lol:

Derek,

That was an old pseudonym that I posted under on the AKKI board years ago... I think it was back in 1998/1999? Regardless of when... I have since atoned for my sins and reported myself to the proper authorities. :lol: (In other words I haven't posted anonymously in like... uh... er... 4-5 years?, and have apologized for doing what I did back then.)

Originally posted by dcence

Certainly, simultaneous strikes are part of it, as in say Snakes of Wisdom. Timing applies in liquid and gaseous, but that is not even relevant or the point of my post. The timing is not what you should be focusing on in this discussion because it is a part of both liquid and gaseouos motion. If you understand the mass attack techniques, you will understand that rebounding strikes between multiple opponents and self is in fact a gaseous principle. Take Gathering of the Snakes with the hand and foot strikes that rebound off one opponent to strike another. That is what that technique is teaching with those rebounding strikes. Your weapons are acting like the molecules of a gas colliding with the sides of a jar or another molecule and moving in another direction until it hits something else. (See Newton's laws of physics).

Avoid sloshing when you can. LOL

Actually it is both. Don't just look at the surface. It certainly has to do with how a liquid and gas move as a whole in a macro sense, but if you stop there, then you miss part of it. It also has to do with what the different states do on a micro, molecular level, as Mr. Parker explained it. There is often more to his analogies than what is on the surface. That is why I said it is a matter of perspective, but sometimes a perrspective is only perceiving half of something.

If you are listening to Clyde -- be careful. LOL

Thanks for the input. Remember, it is just an analogy. Like Shrek's onion analogy -- many layers. A person will take out of it what his ability to understand allows.

I've read just about every article and book Mr. Parker has written and while I recall him descrbing the gaseous phase of motion in them, I don't recall him ever discussing molecules. I've also seen many video taped seminars he did on the topic... and still no molecules. I understand what you're trying to say, and you obviously understand my view point... Maybe we should agree to disagree?

I don't have to understand the molecular make-up of an onion to know that it makes your eyes water when you cut it. You make things so complicated... What happened to sophisticated simplicity?

 

[dcence]

I've read just about every article and book Mr. Parker has written

Don't think he wrote everything he taught. Don't think he taught everything he knew. I was there when he talked about this. I don't care if it never made it into print. If you think that simultaneous strikes are all that this concept has to offer, you will miss part of it. So you can reject another perspective and miss it, or you can maybe think about it and perhaps find some benefit. That is your choice.

The gaseous state is about expanding your motion to fill the dead space (volume) between you and your opponent or opponents. This can be done in multiple ways, including simultaneous strikes but not to the exclusion of other ways. Don't grab the tail of an elephant and think that is all there is to it.

You make things so complicated

Some things seem complicated to some people. Because one cannot or will not understand, does not make it complicated. Adding is complicated to my 6 year old. To my 9 year old it is easy. That doesn't keep my 6 year old from arguing with the 9 year old about it.

The thing is I don't disagree with your perspective of the concept. But your perspective is only part of it. You are seeing part of a picture, the surface of the concept, and saying that is all there is to it. That is your choice. I am seeing another part, and willing to believe there is more to it than what I see.

Thanks for occupying an otherwise slow Friday.

Derek

 

[kenpo_cory]

I was wondering, does anyone know if Mr. Parker describes the three states of motion anywhere in the Infinite Insights series? I found a reference to it in The Encyclopedia of Kenpo, but no description.

 

[Brother John]

I believe he at least touches on it in the first book.
I think.
I'm at work, my books are at home.


I hate that....


Your Brother
John

 

[Bill Lear]

Originally posted by Brother John
I believe he at least touches on it in the first book.
I think.
I'm at work, my books are at home.


I hate that....

Actually he discusses the primitive, mechanical, and spontaneious stages of learning in the first book... I've been doing lots of reading lately.