Freeing yourself from being grabbed by the wrists?

[drop bear]

Go to an MMA school where they wrestle and ask. Should be easy enough.



As someone said per the techniques in your form, "I would have to see that technique used in an free sparring or "real world" conflict."



It's fair enough to say that it's unlikely anyone is going to be able to reach out and grab you with those grips in the free movement phase of a fight. But if you end up in a clinch, there are a number of low risk entries to the position.



Indeed. I was mainly responding to your statement that no one would use a two hands on one grab in the real world.

2 on on control is a case of not standing square on when you are doing it.

So i can say grab his right arm with two hands. But my head would be tucked into the right side of his body.
(head wrestling). Making it hard to hit me with punches.


This happens a bit doing standing restraints or fighting for a weapon.

Sorry arm drags as well. But you could make an excuse that it is transitional.

 

[anerlich]

2 on on control is a case of not standing square on when you are doing it.

So i can say grab his right arm with two hands. But my head would be tucked into the right side of his body.
(head wrestling). Making it hard to hit me with punches.


This happens a bit doing standing restraints or fighting for a weapon.

All excellent points.

 

[anerlich]

Agree! You will be in a position that your opponent's other hand can't reach you.

Here is an example.

That's an arm drag. Not a 2 on 1.

 

[anerlich]

The intermediate position here is a 2 on 1. The guy's head is up because he's talking, generally it would be next to the other guy's so he couldn't get hit or butted and for additional control.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Go to an MMA school where they wrestle and ask. Should be easy enough.

I've seen it done in the context of wrestling or close quarters. I haven't seen it done in the context that Kung Fu Wang showed by reaching out for the lead hand of someone in a fighting stance.

I tried that today with the other instructor by grabbing his lead hand and each time it was bad news. He just used a couple of the techniques that is taught in the school to deal with grabs and all I caught were back fists to the face, reverse punches, elbows, and strikes to the wrist.

As someone said per the techniques in your form, "I would have to see that technique used in an free sparring or "real world" conflict."

That's fair enough. Some things take seeing to understand. I wish I could show the technique and application but I'm not allowed to. I checked online and found many forms with the technique but none explaining it.

This is the best that I can do. It's the technique right after the double spear hand. Literally the 2nd technique in the form. His form of the technique isn't that good. Too slow and the structure is off, but now that you know what it looks like you can see it in the video below where they are doing it at fighting speed.

you'll see this technique in a lot of Jow Ga forms. It's easy to spot once you know what you are looking for.

 

[anerlich]

I've seen it done in the context of wrestling or close quarters. I haven't seen it done in the context that Kung Fu Wang showed by reaching out for the lead hand of someone in a fighting stance.

I tried that today with the other instructor by grabbing his lead hand and each time it was bad news. He just used a couple of the techniques that is taught in the school to deal with grabs and all I caught were back fists to the face, reverse punches, elbows, and strikes to the wrist.

KFW's technique isn't the technique I was discussing.

That's fair enough. Some things take seeing to understand. I wish I could show the technique and application but I'm not allowed to. I checked online and found many forms with the technique but none explaining it.

Too bad you're not allowed to. Because those vids don't help me visualise such counters at all.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The intermediate position here is a 2 on 1. The guy's head is up because he's talking, generally it would be next to the other guy's so he couldn't get hit or butted and for additional control.

That makes sense to me for a two arm grab.

and this makes sense to me.

None of these are done from the perspective of attacking someone in a striking fighting stance. All of the arm drags I saw were initiated when in a clinch and not as an entry of attacking the lead hand of a striker.

 

[drop bear]

I've seen it done in the context of wrestling or close quarters. I haven't seen it done in the context that Kung Fu Wang showed by reaching out for the lead hand of someone in a fighting stance.

I tried that today with the other instructor by grabbing his lead hand and each time it was bad news. He just used a couple of the techniques that is taught in the school to deal with grabs and all I caught were back fists to the face, reverse punches, elbows, and strikes to the wrist.

That's fair enough. Some things take seeing to understand. I wish I could show the technique and application but I'm not allowed to. I checked online and found many forms with the technique but none explaining it.

This is the best that I can do. It's the technique right after the double spear hand. Literally the 2nd technique in the form. His form of the technique isn't that good. Too slow and the structure is off, but now that you know what it looks like you can see it in the video below where they are doing it at fighting speed.

you'll see this technique in a lot of Jow Ga forms. It's easy to spot once you know what you are looking for.

Yeah i would not try the arm drag from wangs position. I would clinch first. Unless he is giving me some sort of feed that makes it possible.

Back to that directly in front idea.

Unless it was a weapon i am trying to secure.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Too bad you're not allowed to. Because those vids don't help me visualise such counters at all.

Yeah it sucks. I wish I could actually show it because it's a very practical counter. The counter that I know counters what KFW was showing not the technique that you showed. If I get into a situation like that then those techniques escape techniques won't work. I'm not sure what Jow Ga techniques would work in the clinch with the arm drag or the 2 on 1 techniques. The only thing that I know in terms of Jow Ga and grappling in general is that elbow control is easy and effective. Good escapes and good control often takes the elbow into consideration.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Yeah i would not try the arm drag from wangs position. I would clinch first. Unless he is giving me some sort of feed that makes it possible..

That was training and not fighting. When you downward parry your back left arm on your opponent's leading right arm,

if his arm is

- still there, your downward parry arm can change into a grabbing hand and continue your arm drag.
- not there, your downward parry arm can change into an upward wrapping arm.

To use your downward parry arm to force your opponent to respond is what you are looking for. You then respond to it according to his respond. Since you don't know what your opponent's respond may be, that make the training much more interested.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Unless it was a weapon i am trying to secure.

I stand correctly. 2 hand arm grab to control a weapon.. definitely valid until you get smarty pants partners like me. One day while practicing 2 hand arm grabs on knife defense. I simply dropped the knife from my control hand into my free hand and stabbed my partner lol. But in most situations 99.9% the person isn't going to risk dropping the knife into the open hand. So 2 hand arm grabs to secure a weapon definitely.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The counter that I know counters what KFW was showing not the technique that you showed.

This counter works well for both "arm drag" and "2 on 1".

 

[anerlich]

That makes sense to me for a two arm grab.

and this makes sense to me.

None of these are done from the perspective of attacking someone in a striking fighting stance. All of the arm drags I saw were initiated when in a clinch and not as an entry of attacking the lead hand of a striker.

Like drop bear, I wouldn't try to use either technique without some sort of clinch control first. KFW's clip demonstrated the technique against an unresisting partner feeding him the technique. Which is fair enough as long as the context is understood. But both arm drags and 2 on 1s are bread and butter for grapplers.

I stand correctly. 2 hand arm grab to control a weapon.. definitely valid until you get smarty pants partners like me. One day while practicing 2 hand arm grabs on knife defense. I simply dropped the knife from my control hand into my free hand and stabbed my partner lol. But in most situations 99.9% the person isn't going to risk dropping the knife into the open hand. So 2 hand arm grabs to secure a weapon definitely.

My Jiu Jitsu instructor is also a black belt in arnis. In his opinion unarmed knife defence probably leads to death, but if you're dead anyway you might as well have a go. He would have you in a modified 2 on 1 on the weapon arm. controlling and hyperextending the elbow taking the knife arm to the ground using your full bodyweight. Hard to explain in words but you would have zero chance of dropping that knife into the other hand like that. Letting go of the knife to ostensibly catch it with the other hand gives the enemy the chance to take it. 100% of the time I'm not going to drop the knife intentionally.

 

[drop bear]

I stand correctly. 2 hand arm grab to control a weapon.. definitely valid until you get smarty pants partners like me. One day while practicing 2 hand arm grabs on knife defense. I simply dropped the knife from my control hand into my free hand and stabbed my partner lol. But in most situations 99.9% the person isn't going to risk dropping the knife into the open hand. So 2 hand arm grabs to secure a weapon definitely.

I have been mulling this knife business over a bit. I think if you engage you also need an exit. Just in case someone pulld a stunt like that. You can't keep taking multiple dips at securing that knife.

I dont think i have seen anyone train an exit from a failed grab. They just keep chasing.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I have been mulling this knife business over a bit. I think if you engage you also need an exit. Just in case someone pulld a stunt like that. You can't keep taking multiple dips at securing that knife.

I dont think i have seen anyone train an exit from a failed grab. They just keep chasing.

We were just discussing this last week. I was introducing some students to knife defenses, and made precisely that point. When you go in, if you don't get control, you get out. Yes, they get another chance to attack, but better they have to step in and attack again, than having you right handy for multi-stabbing.

 

[lansao]

Some notes from my studies. On a parallel arm grab using fuk sao when you rotate while bringing your elbow forward (effectively behaving as though you're checking the time on that hand) is very useful. Additionally, bridging from that arm to make contact with your opponent and capture their elbow/center is a helpful follow-up.

Additionally, fut sao to inside jut sao with a t-step is useful and leverages your body against their hand/wrist/arm.

Finally, for cross arm grab, tan sao while sinking into a reversed stance can help escape. From there, the tan hand can bridge up the opponents arm to his center with a strike. That said, multiple follow-ups are accessible from here.

~ Alan, Wing Chun Student