Forms

[Flying Crane]

I would say the bow is a given but after that...????

Another note Is a down block a down block..? Or the end of orange belt is that really just a palm and mantis strike..(or perhaps it is an entrance to won sul #4) This could be used for any korean style I just happend to be experienced in HRD. I was going through all the forms and was thinking to myself how come, my understanding of the form is surface level.. I think I should go back and make myself understand the movement.
John

Exactly. Everyone needs to be responsible to dissect and analyze their forms for themselves. It helps to have help, but if not, do it yourself, and take your time.

There is a book on the market entitled "The Way of Kata" by Laurence Kane and Kris Wilder. This book is focused on how to approach the analyzation of kata, and the authors claim that if you understand this, then you can gain a deeper understanding of forms from any style. I can't give the book a good or bad recommendation because I have just started it and don't yet know enough about what they are saying, but you might want to check it out.

 

[arnisador]

I've skimmed the book and it does look interesting. But yes, having a good teacher is optimal!

 

[Flying Crane]

I've skimmed the book and it does look interesting. But yes, having a good teacher is optimal!

Yup, it sure does help to have a good teacher. Often, if the teacher is somewhat traditional-minded he will only show the more obvious applications. The hidden applications are, unfortunately, probably still up to you to find for yourself.

 

[ajs1976]

JFarnsworth mentioned a book with 16 applications for the inward block. Rick Clarke has a book called 75 Down blocks that is very good. I have read most of the book and I really started thinking about some of the different applications.

There is also another book called Five Years, One Kata by Bill Burgar that is about indepth study of one kata. I don't have this book, but it is on my wish list.

 

[arnisador]

I think those books are reviewed in The Library...or at least discussed.

 

[karatekid1975]

Eek! No more Dillman discussions! :flame:

Anyway, I think the biggest problem with many KMAs and Shotokan-esque arts is that there are WAY to many forms. Many are taught too soon and too fast and not in nearly enough detail.

In Tang Soo Do, we learn how to look at forms so we can unlock their knowledge, but we are forced by time constraints to pick and choose which ones we want to break down for further study. If I were to rank the forms that I know really well...the ones that I can demonstrate multiple applications for every single move, they would be...

1. Gi Cho Hyung Ill Boo (that is right, basic form number one - the very first one you learn.)
2. Gi Cho Hyung Ee Boo (the second form one learns)
3. Gi Cho Hyung Sam Boo (the third basic form)

I learned these forms years ago and it took years for my understanding of these forms to blossom. Right now, I am busily dismantling the Pyung Ahns and I found that I had to start taking jui-jutsu in order to learn and practice all of the grappling that was hidden in those form. I know that I've barely scratched the surface.

My palms actually get sweaty when I start thinking about the Naihanchi series or about Bassai. It will take me a few years to get to this point and then it may take decades to fully appreciate the beauty of these forms.

When one tests for chodan in Tang Soo Do, they say your real learning begins. The masters certainly are right. I'm backfilling. I'm relearning everything I've learned and learning new stuff on top of it! Its a gigantic frustratingly beautiful mess that I can obsess over for the rest of my life.

I totally agree. When I did TSD, it was the same situation (not enough time to learn more apps). But I looked into it myself on my own time. I learned a few basic apps, but nothing too fancy. When I picked up Judo a few years ago and learned throws, a light bulb went on in my head, "Pyung Ahn Ee Dan has a throw in it!" The first three or so moves, that is.

When I started Jujitsu, more stuff came out of my head, "Hey, the Taegeuks have pressure point strikes!" Stuff like that. It just blew me away.

My TKD instructor does show apps, but it's basic stuff. But I am figuring more stuff out on my own, so it's no biggy But it will take YEARS to fully understand all the forms that I have learned.

A friend of mine told me that some schools do show basic apps, but it's up to the student to "discover" more about them (forms/bunkai). I think that is true now-a-days.

Good thread, by the way