Up and coming students in Hwa Rang Do

[shesulsa]

Now, Larry, you say you're getting ready for your red belt test tomorrow - so you're brown and testing for red, correct?

So you have another color belt test before your big one - my mistake.

Now, Larry?
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........................................B R E A T H E.........................................

... and have a great time! Let us know how it goes.
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[lulflo]

Breathing would be good. I will have fun, maybe I should just smile the whole time and remember that I am with my family and they like me no matter how much I screw up

...And that is correct, brown to red for this one.

Thanks for the support JKNK.

Farang - Larry

 

[lulflo]

Hooray! I survived and successfully achieved the rank of Red Belt/Sash. Thank you all for your support, the advice was just what I needed. I did end up with the mindset of "just another workout" and aside from the first part of the test where I was still kind of tight, I warmed up and finished with a clear conscious.

Farang - Larry

 

[shesulsa]

Congratulations, Larry! Good going!!

 

[lulflo]

So here I am again. I am in the middle of a quandry. I was able to learn the Red belt form in less than one hour and commit it to memory. Now I am aware that I could not possibly know all of the nuances in the form within that short period of time, but my question is; Is it better to learn small parts of the form with the bits and pieces that will formulate the final result, or is it okay to learn the whole thing and then make the changes as I progress? Any opinion is welcome. Thanks.

Farang - Larry

 

[shesulsa]

Larry, that's a good question. It is my humble opinion that this most likely depends upon the learning style of the student and the teaching style of the instructor. We all know that perfect practice makes perfect, so it could be argued that it is important to learn nuances early on and practice them. Then again, it could also be argued that running through basics until moving meditation occurs that nuances introduced at that time could lend a deeper understanding of the form.

Have you tried learning different forms from each different perspective yet?

 

[floweringknight]

Hello all. Larry, you have heard the saying: You must learn to stand before you can walk, and again, learn to walk before one can run? If your teacher tried to teach you all the little subtleties and nuances in techniques and forms the very first time, believe me, 99% of it would go right over your head (and it does). You have to learn the gross motor movements before you can start to perceive the rhythms and energetics. Like learning the ABC's before you learn to write. Techniques are the same way. I give you son mok sul as an example; I'll bet your technique is still evolving, changing and growing. The only real difference between a beginner and an expert are the subtlties and nuances in technique (joint manipulation, kicking, etc.) and some experience...And congratulations on your recent promotion to RED SASH!!!

Farang - SBNB

 

[shesulsa]

Welcome to MartialTalk, SBN Bailey! :asian: And thank you for posting!

 

[lulflo]

Thank you Sir. I believe that answers my question. I guess each teacher has their own style of teaching and I can definitely respect that. I think that techniques are certainly a different situation, especially when trying to understand minute subtle changes and angles to bring about advantage and strength. Your example of yellow belt technique is a perfect illustration for the need to slow down and learn small pieces at a time. Even after performing those techniques for several years, I am constantly improving (at least I hope to be ). Thank you for your support and also to you SheSulsa.

Farang - Larry

 

[floweringknight]

As a fellow "up and coming student" I pose this question: What is wrong with the traditional way the color belt curriculum is set up? What is right with the traditional way the color belt curriculum is set up? All input is welcome and appreciated. Thank you.

Farang - SBNB

 

[glad2bhere]

Pretty much anybody who knows me knows that I am much against the rank system. I am not saying that I am against "testing". I am saying that the rank system was imported from the Japanese traditions. It seems that the underlying purpose for the system is to facilitate sporting and competitive applications and as a revenue generator by requiring regular assessment with attendant fees. The Koreans never had a rank system. You simply trained until you got good. Then, if you wanted to use your skills you took a governement exam to demonstrate how competent you were. I think if you ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, GOTTA HAVE some kind of system, I would rather see the sort of certification/licensure system. You have one cert for the rank beginner. One for the dedicated practitioner. One for a person able to teach and one for an individual who has accomplished learning all the material of the art. Now true, I practice an art that is non-competitive so maybe others who have grown used to colored belts won't find such an approach helpful. Just some thoughts. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[shesulsa]

SBNB, are you referring to the old curriculum versus the new curriculum?

 

[floweringknight]

Yes - I am comparing the old curriculum with the new (think KJNC). Bruce, thank you for your input and suggestions.

Farang - SBNB

 

[shesulsa]

What is wrong with the traditional way the color belt curriculum is set up? What is right with the traditional way the color belt curriculum is set up? All input is welcome and appreciated.

Sir I am not qualified to say what is wrong or right about either syllabus, but I could give some feedback based on my observations.

The traditional syllabus is long and copious, albeit thorough. One can see the necessity to train the mind well for memorization purposes, certainly. I used to wonder about introducing offensive knife techniques at purple, but then good knife training takes time. Assembling the techniques at each level for a certain type of attack has pros and cons, in my humble opinion. I'm aware that other systems gather the less complicated techniques for a variety of attacks together for beginning belt levels and graduate the complexity of the techniques from there. I'm not sure if that would enable the traditional practitioner to memorize more easily or not, or if it would indeed enable the progression in an easier fashion, it's just an observation and a curiosity of mine.

May I ask you what your thoughts are, sir?

 

[floweringknight]

Of course you may ask. Let me preface this by stating that one of the things I truly love about this art is that it embodies both quality and quantity (um & yang). Here is my thinking; and I will use son mok sul as my example: Out of 30 techniques against a wrist grab, there are bound to be a half dozen or so that will come naturally easier and flow better than the other techniques; especially at first. These may or may not be the same 5-7 techniques for everyone. I like to call these the bread-n-butter techniques. Now, if you decide to condense the curriculum, how do you choose which ones to leave? It is a statistical certainty then that you will also be cutting out certain people's "bread-n-butter" techniques. This is limiting. How can you teach 2 out of 35 jok bang a sul for example? It doesn't make sense to me.

Does this make learning the art much more difficult? YES! If someone thinks it's too hard and they don't want to spend the time and effort; ie. give blood, sweat, and tears, then I feel they should go down the street to jim-bob's mcdojo and get their BB in 6 months.....and be happy. You know the old saying: You get out what you put in! I believe the end results speak loud and clear!

Now the kids curriculum? Different story.......sort of.

Farang -

SBNB

 

[glad2bhere]

I can't agree more!!! But there is also another danger as well.

As was mentioned, out of say 35 techniques a certain handful may be my "bread-&-butter" techniques and these may not be the same as the person standing next to me might choose. There is a real risk that were I to condense a curriculum I would stay with what works for ME. This would be a very human thing to do. Now here is the danger.

If I drop material to condense the curriculum and someone comes to me to learn, what that student will get is a curriculum that reflects MY combat needs. And since I have dropped the other material that didn't work for ME, my new student does not have the option of selecting from the original set I was exposed to but only my SUB-SET. The next very Human thing to do would be to learn what he can of MY set, true enough, but then he starts looking around for other material outside of what I offer and the whole issue of cross-training and the corruption of the original art comes up.

I teach Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido but I would be the first to admit that there are techniques I teach that I probably would not use for myself. I teach the techniques because people who come to me need to get the privelege of being able to make the same (or different) choices as did I. Further, I owe my art the respect of teaching what I was taught so each successive generation AFTER my student gets exposed to the same choices. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[lulflo]

In response to fewer techniques. I would like to submit my two cents.

I have to say that at red belt, I have learned many techniques and realize how many more I have to learn. I can honestly say that I have not mastered any techniques (after only four and a half years), but I do have a good working knowledge on a handful from each belt and the rest are simply a work in progress. I cannot imagine what it would be like to only have a few techiques to draw from and be a red belt. I feel like I might have a better working knowledge on those fewer techniques, but when it comes to understanding the energy flow of techniques in any situation, I feel like I would be missing out, besides that, I don't know how I could compare to another student who has been given all of the techniques that could have been taught. Also, how would I be able to pass on the full art to the next generation? These are all troubling questions to me and I fully intend on teaching what I have learned to others when the time is right. I respect others for their ideas and talents and would not speak ill of anyone, I can only say what I would like for me and my students.

Farang - Larry

 

[floweringknight]

I couldn't agree with both of you more! That is EXACTLY why I still am teaching the traditional curriculum. On the other side of the coin: My art and my teachings are constantly evolving; they have to. I have made some minor adjustments to a few things. All of this has been more of a small semi-reorganization of some parts than actual removal, etc. of knowledge. Changing the order of a few forms, and modifying some of the kicking requirements, for example. If anything, I am adding to the knowledge base, as opposed to subtracting from it! RAISING THE BAR is how I like to describe it! Thank you guys again for your input.


Farang :asian: - SBNB

 

[Bob D.]

Hello Chris, How is everything up in the woods? Good I hope! I agree and disagree with what you say. I'm going to chime in here later. I think this deserves it's own thread though.
Later, Bob

 

[floweringknight]

Hello Sir - I am doing great thanks! How is everything with you and Trish? I am looking forward to an awesome Sulsa camp this year. Please be my guest and start a new thread regarding old vs new curriculum; you know I respect and value your opinions tremendously. We will miss you both at the picnic this weekend!

Farang :asian: - Chris