Forms

[Dirty Dog]

If something you read creates an internal reaction in you so badly you have to start moving your mind and fingers to say something back...you got bothered

I just self-identify as assertive...Im also not bothered by anything

So you just contradicted yourself. You replied. By your (admittedly weird) definition of bothered... you're bothered.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Yeah, at last count it was somewhere north of 60. Maybe 70-something.

Wow! That is incredible.

 

[Flying Crane]

Wow! That is incredible.

It was just way way too much, impossible to keep up with. Kenpo, wing Chun, taiji, some Shaolin stuff, white crane. Some other nonsense that will remain unspoken of that I stumbled into when I was not yet well educated in what is what.

It actually felt good to let it all go. Now it’s strictly white crane, I regularly practice seven forms, but there are some variations in there so you could count it as high as 11 or 12 but I kinda feel like that’s padding the resume. And five weapons, hoping to bring that up a little because I forgot a couple during the hiatus when my son was born, and hoping to get them back. It’s a work in progress.

I kinda wish I had kept a bit of the taiji, but honestly I didn’t feel like I understood the foundation properly and I didn’t want to just make my taiji into a variant of my white crane.

 

[SuperSnakeCrane87]

It was just way way too much, impossible to keep up with. Kenpo, wing Chun, taiji, some Shaolin stuff, white crane. Some other nonsense that will remain unspoken of that I stumbled into when I was not yet well educated in what is what.

It actually felt good to let it all go. Now it’s strictly white crane, I regularly practice seven forms, but there are some variations in there so you could count it as high as 11 or 12 but I kinda feel like that’s padding the resume. And five weapons, hoping to bring that up a little because I forgot a couple during the hiatus when my son was born, and hoping to get them back. It’s a work in progress.

I kinda wish I had kept a bit of the taiji, but honestly I didn’t feel like I understood the foundation properly and I didn’t want to just make my taiji into a variant of my white crane.

There is so much maintenance and upkeep.
I currently only practice Wing Chun/JKD, Modern Arnis, and BJJ

Its so much time and effort practicing something you hope never happens

 

[Flying Crane]

There is so much maintenance and upkeep.
I currently only practice Wing Chun/JKD, Modern Arnis, and BJJ

Its so much time and effort practicing something you hope never happens

Well, and it is just too much material to get any benefit from it. You spend all of your time simply trying to do enough to not forget any of it, you don’t have the time to work it with enough focus and regularity to actually get benefits from it, actually develop some real skill from training it.

 

[SuperSnakeCrane87]

So you just contradicted yourself. You replied. By your (admittedly weird) definition of bothered... you're bothered.

Ok? and? Is it a weakness to be bothered?
If you want you can be the type to just sit there shrug and twiddle your thumbs.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

It was just way way too much, impossible to keep up with. Kenpo, wing Chun, taiji, some Shaolin stuff, white crane. Some other nonsense that will remain unspoken of that I stumbled into when I was not yet well educated in what is what.

It actually felt good to let it all go. Now it’s strictly white crane, I regularly practice seven forms, but there are some variations in there so you could count it as high as 11 or 12 but I kinda feel like that’s padding the resume. And five weapons, hoping to bring that up a little because I forgot a couple during the hiatus when my son was born, and hoping to get them back. It’s a work in progress.

I kinda wish I had kept a bit of the taiji, but honestly I didn’t feel like I understood the foundation properly and I didn’t want to just make my taiji into a variant of my white crane.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I really only practice about 8 total, plus the Yang long form. That’s plenty for me. Other than the Tai Chi form we only work forms once or twice a week. For us it was always the thing we did at the end of the third class of the night On m-w-f after we were totally worn down. Never did much weapons training. 17 hours a week for years and years. You must have an amazing memory to keep that many up.

 

[Flying Crane]

I really only practice about 8 total, plus the Yang long form. That’s plenty for me. Other than the Tai Chi form we only work forms once or twice a week. For us it was always the thing we did at the end of the third class of the night On m-w-f after we were totally worn down. Never did much weapons training. 17 hours a week for years and years. You must have an amazing memory to keep that many up.

Well, I was doing them enough that I could remember them and “perform” them without any trouble. But I never felt like I was really improving in my skill sets, it was all just too random and not focused enough on a consistent methodology. And to be honest, I wasn’t doing the complete body of forms at any time, there were some things that I had already moved away from by the time I was learning other things. But I would say there were times when I was doing 30-40 on a regular basis. I actually spend a lot of my time training by myself without partners, so I do forms on a very regular basis, but I spend more time on fundamentals than I do on forms.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Ok? and? Is it a weakness to be bothered?

In online discussion, we should not be bothered by other people's opinions. When we open our windows, both butterfly and mosquito will all fly in.

 

[SuperSnakeCrane87]

i just finished opening my window nothing flew in

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

i just finished opening my window nothing flew in

Very funny.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

In online discussion, we should not be bothered by other people's opinions. When we open our windows, both butterfly and mosquito will all fly in.

Well, I was doing them enough that I could remember them and “perform” them without any trouble. But I never felt like I was really improving in my skill sets, it was all just too random and not focused enough on a consistent methodology. And to be honest, I wasn’t doing the complete body of forms at any time, there were some things that I had already moved away from by the time I was learning other things. But I would say there were times when I was doing 30-40 on a regular basis. I actually spend a lot of my time training by myself without partners, so I do forms on a very regular basis, but I spend more time on fundamentals than I do on forms.

30 still sounds amazing to me. I’ve never had much talent for choreographed movement memory. I do the necessary forms training but it was never the core of our curriculum. I’ve probably done the forms many thousand times, I still find small things in them but mostly when I teach it to someone. It’s odd how students can make you better even though they don’t know what they are doing.

 

[SuperSnakeCrane87]

.

 

[Rich Parsons]

(* Disclaimer: While I liked Bruce Lee's Movies I was not a fan boy nor thrilled by many of the Fan Boys in the 70's. Not those training with him or his first gen students just the fan boys in general. So that kept me away from JKD as a child and teenage. *)



Hi SuperSnakeCrane87, (* I hope I got that pronunciation correctly *)

Below is a summary of this thread

SuperSnakeCrane87 (SSC)
Just out of curiosity...
which forms if any were you taught or do you teach?

In the above you ask generically about forms being taught, fine question, yet very open ended based upon your replies later.

Xue

Forms in JKD? There are no forms in JKD.

As for the rest of my training, Traditional Yang style (multiple forms), some Chen, some Wu and some Sun, some CMC Taijiquan. Xingyiquan, some Baguazhang, some Wing Chun, some Shaolin Long fist. and a few TKD forms too, and there may be some I forgot.... I have no idea how many forms I have learned over the years... a lot that is all I know

Xue responds with a simply reply to your post. And based upon the open ended nonspecific question it is a decent personal response.


A few more posts go by and you post the following

SSC
Hmm...no direct answers

So no one here even learned the tradition Jeet Kune Do form Ung Moon?

This is your first mention of a specific form for JKD, previously there was not mention of the art / style and or specific form.
One could assume (* yet one knows where that goes for both of us *) that it was about Forms in the JKD forum, yet many people have cross posted in the couple of decades this site has been around. So not a clear way forward, so reading what you wrote is the only reasonable way forward and that is to reply about all or none or philosophy about forms.

XUE

I have trained briefly on 2 sides of the JKD fence, JKD philosophy and JKD as Bruce taught. Never heard of any form in JKD. And I'd be willing to bet money that no form ever came from Bruce Lee

Xue replies and clarifies an expresses an opinion - without assuming something about the other posters, nor making comments about them.

SSC

Im not sure what the origin of Ung Moon is to be honest.

Its almost shocking none of us got the same JKD

You then reply that you don't know the origin and that it (* the for Ung Moon *) could be outside of any JKD teachings.
And then your expressed surprise / shock that no one got the same, which makes many of have ready the teachings and philosophy of JKD wonder which branch you might be from and why are you shocked.

Oily Dragon
You forgot one, the form of no form.

If this were Sesame Street, we'd be at 1. Ah ah ah.

Oily Dragon steps in and cracks a Sesame Street Joke
And yet he also provided the basis of JKD, the only real form is no form.
I like that he can be both funny and informative.

Xue
I'm not. There is the group that teaches what Bruce Lee taught and then there is the group that teaches based on philosophy which does add things along the way.

As for aa JKD form; Have you read anything Bruce Lee wrote? A form in JKD is the antithesis of anything Bruce Lee said or did as far as JKD is concerned

Xue is responding to you about you being shocked that he is not shocked that it is all different.
He even brings forth that there are two main branches and the major differences.
He asked if you have read of his (Lee's) works as both Oily and Xue have presented there really is not any Lee Forms in JKD.

SSC
Yes, I've read some of the material Bruce Lee has written. I don't follow him word for word, although I agree with and have benefited a lot from things he wrote down.

From the sounds of what you are saying, its easy to say we were given different curriculums under the same name. Not a big deal in my eyes.

You sound like someone who enjoys the original/classic version of JKD.

I guess from your perspective I would have an altered/modified version of the JKD curriculum.

You acknowledge that you have read and use pieces (* which is a Bruce thing *) and then you acknowledge that there are differences and it is not a big deal.
You then make an assumption about Xue and an Assumption about Xue towards you.
Nothing wrong with expressing that as an opinion.

SSC
So you were taught no forms what so ever while learning JKD?

You then ask a question to Xue that he has already answered.
No Big deal. Just a question.

Xue
I have briefly trained on both sides, what Bruce taught and concepts, I thoroughly enjoyed both of them. But one thing that seems to be a core belief in JKD is using no form as a form. So a standardized JKD form seems highly unlikely. Never heard of it from Bruce Lee or any of the first generation JKD folks

Xue makes a reply about your curriculum post.

Xue
Not only never taught a form in JKD, never even heard of a form in JKD...from 3 different teachers, 2 of whom trained with first generation JKD teachers.

A standardized form goes against everything Bruce Lee ever said or wrote as it applies to JKD

Xue provides additional data for anyone who might be reading this later, so they know his perspective.

SSC
Im not sure if the forms I was taught were standardised or not...there are so many form variations of forms to explore as well.

They were definitely beneficial and highly recommend.

Do you know any forms?

You admit that the forms may not have been standard.
And that there are variations to explore in general in forms.
You claim they were beneficial and you would highly recommend them.
This is contra to the general teachings of JKD from its' source. As Bruce set aside the forms and moved forward in his way.

Then you ask again if they know any forms.

Xue

Read post #3 in this thread

Xue replies with the post number where he had already answered your question.

SSC
Ahhh yess....I must've skimmed over that portion of the thread.
Thanks for bringing it to my attention

You admit you missed it - no big deal - yet it is a good troll behavior to ignore posts and to continue to ask the same thing differently .
Just expressing my opinion that it is not clear if you just missed something or being a troll or just trying to be *insert negative connotation word here *

Xue
Also should say, IMO, based on my little experience with JKD and lots of reading...forms, standardized or not, beneficial or not, make it "not" Jeet Kune Do.

May be great, may be effective, but IMO, it is not JKD

Xue continues to clarify for the general reader, and to express his opinion.
Not making any attacks or snide comments about any poster of member of anyone training in any fashion , just an opinion.

SSC
Ok. I acknowledge what you said to me.

Sorry if what Im saying is bothering you.

Here you acknowledge what Xue posted and then you assumed again that he (Xue) was bothered.
See Above about this type of post and assuming

Xue
Doesn't bother me, just felt the need to respond to that point. You do what you want. Just put it there for anyone who may come across this later

Xue responds with a comment of not being bothered only clarification.

SSC
Oh ok.
Define bother

If something you read creates an internal reaction in you so badly you have to start moving your mind and fingers to say something back...you got bothered

This is a common tactic of trolls, and others who just choose not to play well with others. They define a word in a manner differently than it is in the dictionary.
Just my experience.

DD
So by your definition, everybody who posts any reply is bothered.
Why are you so bothered?

DD asked why are you bothered, as by your own definition you would be.
And when I read up to that point I had the same questions.

SSC
I just self-identify as assertive...Im also not bothered by anything

You self identify as assertive , and that your own definition of a word does not apply to you.
To me this is another trollish behavior. Not just aggressive, just another little post to keep the tension.
Once again my opinion.

Kung Fu Wang
Provides a video of a Ung Moon Form – Intro looks to be Inosanto

Kung Fu Wang posts a video with the name of the form and it also looks based upon the intro to be Dan Inosanto organization.

Xue
I'm sorry, but I go with excepted dictionary definitions of English words, not made up ones.

bother: (of a circumstance or event) worry, disturb, or upset (someone).

Your posts and form statements about JKD do not worry, disturb, or upset me

Xue provides the standardized definition of the word you used to define others.

SSC – Replying to Kung Fu Wang
You wouldnt have my words on that. The words in the video have my words.

That being said you could've been taught Ung Moon in a Wing Chun class...

So that is not what you said, yet the video is saying what you said?
To me this is confusion. Not clear and could lead to future disagreement places for you to have manufactured conflict.
Yes, and I also teach physics in my FMA classes. Having something be in a class does not mean it is a connection to that class.
Years ago, after a seminar by Datu Kelly Worden a summary post had the a technique he showed was from Sonny Umpad and that it was Balintawak. I replied that it was not from the original Balintawak nor in the major branches of the grouping methodology. Some of Kelly's guys got upset and were attacking me online and such. I replied that I never said the technique would not work. I never said that Kelly didn't learn it from Sonny. What I said was that it was NOT Balintawak so the credit should go to Sonny directly not to the Balintawak family branches. The point is that it was a Modern Arnis Seminar and Kelly shared it. It does not mean it was Modern Arnis, nor was there evidence of it being Balintawak.

SSC
Hey whatever the dictionary says bro and thats all there is

I want you to know you specifically have my permission to be as bothered/unbothered, as you PERSONALLY would like to be, by anything and everything I say.

The term bro is similar to son, it used derogatorily, Condescending and Dismissively .
You then give Xue Permission to be bothered which you defined differently than the norm and assumed and brought forth.
And then the RAISED typing voice also brings home the point of authority you are trying to argue from.

You brought up Bothered. You assigned it yo others. Then you defined and continue to assign it to others.
What would you say if someone did this to you? Oh wait, I guess I am doing that with my comments about you acting like a troll.

Xue
Now you're just trying to get an argument going and being rather silly. I will not waste my time on this any longer. I have said what I wanted and have no desire to help you in what I suspect your real goal is here

Have a nice day

Xue calls you out for your actions and expresses his opinion that you are insisting there is an argument and that you are being silly in the process. He then says he is done with this discussion of this point any more.

SSC
You are most definitely the victim in all this...the words between us forever as evidence.

I accept and acknowledge what I said is bothersome

You accuse / assume that someone else is the victim and then imply that the evidence is otherwise.
Review this post. The evidence is that this site is the victim of your Bothersome or should I say Trollish behaviors.

DD
So you just contradicted yourself. You replied. By your (admittedly weird) definition of bothered... you're bothered.

DD brings up that you contradicted yourself - using your own definition.

SSC – reply to DD

Ok? and? Is it a weakness to be bothered?
If you want you can be the type to just sit there shrug and twiddle your thumbs.

Now you back track on is being bothered an issue, in your previous posts it sure seems to be.
Then you become insulting with your follow up .
This is another trollish behavior in my opinion.

SSC
.

Was this a miss post?
Or was it the passive aggressive post to get the last post?

 

[Flying Crane]

Holy crap Rich, how long did it take you to put that together?

 

[Rich Parsons]

Holy crap Rich, how long did it take you to put that together?

I just copied the posts into Word.
Then I copied and pasted [*quote*] and [*/quote*] without the stars.
I also got interrupted a few times with other posts and Facebook and such.

The correct answer is longer than I should have spent on it.

 

[Flying Crane]

I just copied the posts into Word.
Then I copied and pasted [*quote*] and [*/quote*] without the stars.
I also got interrupted a few times with other posts and Facebook and such.

The correct answer is longer than I should have spent on it.

You are more dedicated than I am, that is for sure.

 

[Xue Sheng]

@Rich Parsons
I really wish there was a like for "darn impressive"

 

[SuperSnakeCrane87]

(* Disclaimer: While I liked Bruce Lee's Movies I was not a fan boy nor thrilled by many of the Fan Boys in the 70's. Not those training with him or his first gen students just the fan boys in general. So that kept me away from JKD as a child and teenage. *)



Hi SuperSnakeCrane87, (* I hope I got that pronunciation correctly *)

Below is a summary of this thread

In the above you ask generically about forms being taught, fine question, yet very open ended based upon your replies later.




Xue responds with a simply reply to your post. And based upon the open ended nonspecific question it is a decent personal response.


A few more posts go by and you post the following

This is your first mention of a specific form for JKD, previously there was not mention of the art / style and or specific form.
One could assume (* yet one knows where that goes for both of us *) that it was about Forms in the JKD forum, yet many people have cross posted in the couple of decades this site has been around. So not a clear way forward, so reading what you wrote is the only reasonable way forward and that is to reply about all or none or philosophy about forms.



Xue replies and clarifies an expresses an opinion - without assuming something about the other posters, nor making comments about them.



You then reply that you don't know the origin and that it (* the for Ung Moon *) could be outside of any JKD teachings.
And then your expressed surprise / shock that no one got the same, which makes many of have ready the teachings and philosophy of JKD wonder which branch you might be from and why are you shocked.



Oily Dragon steps in and cracks a Sesame Street Joke
And yet he also provided the basis of JKD, the only real form is no form.
I like that he can be both funny and informative.


Xue is responding to you about you being shocked that he is not shocked that it is all different.
He even brings forth that there are two main branches and the major differences.
He asked if you have read of his (Lee's) works as both Oily and Xue have presented there really is not any Lee Forms in JKD.



You acknowledge that you have read and use pieces (* which is a Bruce thing *) and then you acknowledge that there are differences and it is not a big deal.
You then make an assumption about Xue and an Assumption about Xue towards you.
Nothing wrong with expressing that as an opinion.



You then ask a question to Xue that he has already answered.
No Big deal. Just a question.



Xue makes a reply about your curriculum post.


Xue provides additional data for anyone who might be reading this later, so they know his perspective.



You admit that the forms may not have been standard.
And that there are variations to explore in general in forms.
You claim they were beneficial and you would highly recommend them.
This is contra to the general teachings of JKD from its' source. As Bruce set aside the forms and moved forward in his way.

Then you ask again if they know any forms.



Xue replies with the post number where he had already answered your question.



You admit you missed it - no big deal - yet it is a good troll behavior to ignore posts and to continue to ask the same thing differently .
Just expressing my opinion that it is not clear if you just missed something or being a troll or just trying to be *insert negative connotation word here *



Xue continues to clarify for the general reader, and to express his opinion.
Not making any attacks or snide comments about any poster of member of anyone training in any fashion , just an opinion.



Here you acknowledge what Xue posted and then you assumed again that he (Xue) was bothered.
See Above about this type of post and assuming



Xue responds with a comment of not being bothered only clarification.



This is a common tactic of trolls, and others who just choose not to play well with others. They define a word in a manner differently than it is in the dictionary.
Just my experience.


DD asked why are you bothered, as by your own definition you would be.
And when I read up to that point I had the same questions.



You self identify as assertive , and that your own definition of a word does not apply to you.
To me this is another trollish behavior. Not just aggressive, just another little post to keep the tension.
Once again my opinion.



Kung Fu Wang posts a video with the name of the form and it also looks based upon the intro to be Dan Inosanto organization.



Xue provides the standardized definition of the word you used to define others.


So that is not what you said, yet the video is saying what you said?
To me this is confusion. Not clear and could lead to future disagreement places for you to have manufactured conflict.
Yes, and I also teach physics in my FMA classes. Having something be in a class does not mean it is a connection to that class.
Years ago, after a seminar by Datu Kelly Worden a summary post had the a technique he showed was from Sonny Umpad and that it was Balintawak. I replied that it was not from the original Balintawak nor in the major branches of the grouping methodology. Some of Kelly's guys got upset and were attacking me online and such. I replied that I never said the technique would not work. I never said that Kelly didn't learn it from Sonny. What I said was that it was NOT Balintawak so the credit should go to Sonny directly not to the Balintawak family branches. The point is that it was a Modern Arnis Seminar and Kelly shared it. It does not mean it was Modern Arnis, nor was there evidence of it being Balintawak.



The term bro is similar to son, it used derogatorily, Condescending and Dismissively .
You then give Xue Permission to be bothered which you defined differently than the norm and assumed and brought forth.
And then the RAISED typing voice also brings home the point of authority you are trying to argue from.

You brought up Bothered. You assigned it yo others. Then you defined and continue to assign it to others.
What would you say if someone did this to you? Oh wait, I guess I am doing that with my comments about you acting like a troll.



Xue calls you out for your actions and expresses his opinion that you are insisting there is an argument and that you are being silly in the process. He then says he is done with this discussion of this point any more.



You accuse / assume that someone else is the victim and then imply that the evidence is otherwise.
Review this post. The evidence is that this site is the victim of your Bothersome or should I say Trollish behaviors.


DD brings up that you contradicted yourself - using your own definition.


Now you back track on is being bothered an issue, in your previous posts it sure seems to be.
Then you become insulting with your follow up .
This is another trollish behavior in my opinion.


Was this a miss post?
Or was it the passive aggressive post to get the last post?

Well thats your perspective and your entitled to it.

Unfortunately since you can't seem to understand mine maybe try not commenting on the threads I create since we seem to "miscommunicate"