For All The Taekwondo Bashers The Real Truth On Taekwondo From My View

[Headhunter]

Wushu is a form of kung fu. I am certain of it. There's a reason I didn't join.

I’m sure they’re very thankful for that

 

[Buka]

You can't spar against yourself.

Might go blind.

 

[Steve]

It's almost like (gasp in surprise) different schools teach different things! And having been to a single school doesn't tell you everything about the art!

I don't now how ubiquitous a wall kick is in TKD, but to your point, it literally took me seconds to find all those videos. I went to youtube and typed "wall kick tkd" into the search field and all kinds of things came up. So, it's obviously out there to some degree.

And as a tangent, this is a great example of why it's so peculiar and incredible that certain claims cannot be substantiated online. There are over 1.9 billion active users logged on monthly, in 80 languages in over 100 different countries, with over 5 billion videos available. There are over 500 hours of video uploaded every MINUTE, and people watch over 3.25 billion hours of video each month (about one billion views each day).

So, the idea that there are zero examples of anything that actually exists in real life are exceedingly small (excluding things that are illegal or violate YouTube's standards of conduct). Case in point is how easily I found examples of not just any wall kicks, but TKD wall kicks, including a tutorial.

 

[Acronym]

Then they can shadow box

That's not power training. And btw, a heavy bag is not optimal for the knees... medium hard kicking shields are much healthier, and for that you need a holder. Unless you want to buy a dummy and place in the home, which again is a convenience issue. So there are quite a few practical reasons why it's preferable to do that in the dojang.

 

[Headhunter]

That's not power training. And btw, a heavy bag is not optimal for the knees... medium hard kicking shields are much healthier, and for that you need a holder. Unless you want to buy a dummy and place in the home, which again is a convenience issue. So there are quite a few practical reasons why it's preferable to do that in the dojang.

Oh ffs now you have an issue with heavy bags....as I said...so glad you are not at any school I go to

 

[Steve]

Assuming the GI's don't give it away, how would you be able to differentiate a Kosen Judo school from a BJJ one?

Don't you think the Gi is one example of culture?

 

[Acronym]

Don't you think the Gi is one example of culture?

You wrote that it was culture that made BJJ different from Judo. Then I call you out on it by mentioning Kosen Judo which is Japanese and has the same groundwork emphasis as BJJ

And you reply with that. Why not just admit you were wrong?

 

[Steve]

You wrote that it was culture that made BJJ different from Judo. Then I call you out on it by mentioning Kosen Judo which is Japanese and has the same groundwork emphasis as BJJ

And you reply with that. Why not just admit you were wrong?

Because I'm not wrong. This is what I said, and I think I'm correct. The similarities between Judo and BJJ, and even Kosen Judo and BJJ, reinforce my points. I'll quote my first two posts here to remind you of what I said.

Depends on how you look at it. Culture evolves over time. There is the culture of origin, which has some influence. But so does the culture in which it is taught. Jiu Jitsu is heavily influenced by Japanese culture, which in turn influences the curriculum, the philosophy, and the training methods. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is influenced by its Japanese origins as well as Brazilian sensibilities and culture, which in turn has a lot of influence over the curriculum, philosophy, and methods. BJJ is, as a result, very different from Japanese Jujutsu, and even from Judo. BJJ taught in America is different from BJJ taught in Brazil. The culture in the USA is different, the instructors are different, and so the culture evolved, shaping the curriculum, philosophy, and the training methods. This isn't monolithic, even within the same style, and in spite of any efforts to preserve the cultural integrity of the art.

To put a fine point on it, I think culture alone can influence the style. I mentioned Judo and BJJ. They are much more alike than Japanese Jujutsu and BJJ, but there are still significant differences that can be attributed to culture.

That said, I agree with you that how a style is trained matters significantly. I've posted at length about it, and I'm sure no one is interested in hearing me rehash it again. Suffice to say, I think if you train a style for an application, two things happen. First, the style will become more effective in that application. Second, the style will evolve to become well suited for the application. These sound similar, but aren't quite the same. For example, if you train TKD and apply those skills in MMA, your TKD skills will improve and you will become better at MMA. Second, your TKD will evolve, because you will find that some of your TKD skills work better in that context than others.

Some people view this as support against application (the 'we train for self defense' cohort). I think it's just the opposite, which is a strong argument for as much diverse application as possible, based on your goals. Rulesets focus training. They are only limiting if you confine yourself to one ruleset.

Maybe where the misunderstanding is happening is in the use of the term "culture." when I use it, I mean culture in the sense of the customs and norms of any group, not just of a country. So, BJJ has a culture. Judo has a culture. TKD has a culture. And Americans have a culture, which influenced the culture of TKD, BJJ, or Judo. Etc.

 

[TKD Eagle]

Pettis said himself it was a performance kick for breaking he did in TKD. How many students join demo teams or dabble in acrobatics? 1%? 0.5?

At our TKD school, the kids who have a lot of natural athletic ability are asked to join the demo team. Every one of them. Not all do, of course, but the school is always looking for people who can do awesome moves. So if you're the kind of guy with the athletic talent to be a professional fighter, and you compete in TKD, then I can almost guarantee that you'd be offered a chance at demo team. The fact that you don't know that shows your lack of knowledge about Taekwondo.

What you are failing to see is that not everybody who attends a martial arts school has the same goals. I attend a WT school, and we put a lot of emphasis on competition. WT competition, that is. We send people to regional and national tournaments, and the whole school is filled with trophies. Now I'm way too old for the tournament scene, and have no desire to do it. But there are people who love sparring, there are people who love demo team, there are people who love poomsae competition. There are a lot of opportunities for people who want to compete, and none of them require getting punched in the mouth. It's a great sport.

Is it going to translate to MMA, which has a completely different rule set, without modification? Of course not. But neither does any other martial art. Change the rules and you change which moves are best.

 

[Acronym]

Is it going to translate to MMA, which has a completely different rule set, without modification? Of course not. But neither does any other martial art. Change the rules and you change which moves are best.

Sambo translates since it has both stand-up wrestling, striking, and ground submissions.

 

[skribs]

Pettis said himself it was a performance kick for breaking he did in TKD. How many students join demo teams or dabble in acrobatics? 1%? 0.5?

Please source your statistics. We have lots of students that do these performance kicks.

You would have to elaborate what you mean then and name the stances.

How do you know so much about martial arts that you can tell everyone what works and what doesn't, and yet you don't know what I mean by "deep stances".

I mean a front stance or a back stance where the length and depth of the stance is more than is comfortable, for the purpose of building flexibility, leg strength, balance, posture, and endurance. This extends even to other stances, which aren't long, but can be done deeply - such as a cat stance or cross stance, in which your weight is primarily on a single leg.

What I mean by doing them properly is:

• Properly distribute your weight to focus on specific muscle groups
• Proper alignment of hips, feet, and shoulders, to help with posture and weight distribution
• Pushing yourself past what's comfortable (something most people aren't apt to do without instruction, this is why people hire trainers at the gym)
• Proper width of the stance to support balance
• Holding the stance longer than comfortable to build endurance in your muscles and in your mindset

That's not power training. And btw, a heavy bag is not optimal for the knees... medium hard kicking shields are much healthier, and for that you need a holder. Unless you want to buy a dummy and place in the home, which again is a convenience issue. So there are quite a few practical reasons why it's preferable to do that in the dojang.

How is a standing bag different from a heavy bog?

Might go blind.

I should have brought these out earlier, but...

 

[Steve]

You wrote that it was culture that made BJJ different from Judo. Then I call you out on it by mentioning Kosen Judo which is Japanese and has the same groundwork emphasis as BJJ

And you reply with that. Why not just admit you were wrong?

the culture of BJJ is very different than the culture of Judo. So much so, that you can tell whether you're in a Judo school or a BJJ school just by the way people act. My point is that every style is influenced by more than just the curriculum, and that even with a similar curriculum, the culture of the style will be unique. Kosen Judo and BJJ, having very similar curricula, are still different due to the varying cultures of the styles.

And hey! Why are you calling me out? LOL

 

[Acronym]

QUOTE="Steve, post: 2007461, member: 17506"]the culture of BJJ is very different than the culture of Judo. So much so, that you can tell whether you're in a Judo school or a BJJ school just by the way people act. [/QUOTE]

That's a very vague statement. How do Kosen Judo people act differently?

 

[Acronym]

How do you know so much about martial arts that you can tell everyone what works and what doesn't, and yet you don't know what I mean by "deep stances".

I mean a front stance or a back stance where the length and depth of the stance is more than is comfortable, for the purpose of building flexibility, leg strength, balance, posture, and endurance. This extends even to other stances, which aren't long, but can be done deeply - such as a cat stance or cross stance, in which your weight is primarily on a single leg.

What I mean by doing them properly is:

• Properly distribute your weight to focus on specific muscle groups
• Proper alignment of hips, feet, and shoulders, to help with posture and weight distribution
• Pushing yourself past what's comfortable (something most people aren't apt to do without instruction, this is why people hire trainers at the gym)
• Proper width of the stance to support balance
• Holding the stance longer than comfortable to build endurance in your muscles and in your mindset

Yeah we've done that on and off in my school. I don't view it as a crucial or healthy part of TKD training. I've gotten pains in my knees as a result of deep horse stances and other such things and the best way out of it to stop doing them alltogether.

 

[Steve]

That's a very vague statement. How do Kosen Judo people act differently?

That's a great question. What do you think?

 

[Acronym]

That's a great question. What do you think?

I'm not the one making the statement.

 

[Headhunter]

Yeah we've done that on and off in my school. I don't see it as a crucial or healthy part of TKD training. I've gotten pains in my knees as a result of deep horse stances and other such things and the best way out of it to stop doing them alltogether.

So your body couldn’t handle it....so what? There’s probably millions of people who’s body can handle it....your bodies performance issues does not mean the entire training is bad.

 

[skribs]

Yeah we've done that on and off in my school. I don't see it as a crucial or healthy part of TKD training. I've gotten pains in my knees as a result of deep horse stances and other such things and the best way out of it to stop doing them alltogether.

That sounds like something you should talk to your doctor about. Or a personal reason not to do them.

I'm also guessing there are other factors at play. For example, I've been training them for years, and my knees are fine. I've got literally hundreds of students (well, down to around 100 right now because of COVID), and they don't have those knee problems. I don't think it's fair to say that's a bad way to train, when for the vast majority of people it isn't.

 

[Acronym]

So your body couldn’t handle it....so what? There’s probably millions of people who’s body can handle it....your bodies performance issues does not mean the entire training is bad.

Stressing the joints isn't good for anybody.

 

[Acronym]

That sounds like something you should talk to your doctor about. Or a personal reason not to do them.

I'm also guessing there are other factors at play. For example, I've been training them for years, and my knees are fine. I've got literally hundreds of students (well, down to around 100 right now because of COVID), and they don't have those knee problems. I don't think it's fair to say that's a bad way to train, when for the vast majority of people it isn't.

And the positive effects are what exactly, all else equal?