flying kicks for the streets.

[drop bear]

I mean it should be a no brainer. They are a movie kick not a self defence kick.

But then you look on YouTube. And see a guy pull it off. Against a knife
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sfCBY_S_4Qo

OK but a once off lucky shot does not make a trend.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QQez4jQO81c

Twice?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HItbJp1A1Ls

Three times?

Maybe there is something in it.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Almost any technique can work, given the right circumstances. Hitting someone from behind when they don't see you coming is pretty much the best circumstance for succeeding with any attack. The question is which technique gives you the best risk/reward ratio for a given situation. Even though hitting an unaware opponent from behind gives a decent chance of success with a flying kick, that doesn't make it the best option for the situation.

 

[Dirty Dog]

There are few, if any, techniques that cannot be used on the street. Even something like a 720 kick could be used under the right circumstances.
Those circumstances might be extremely rare, and there might be other techniques that are likely to be more (or as) effective in the same situation, but any technique you can execute properly can conceivably be used.

That doesn't mean I'm going to spend a lot of time working on 720 kicks.

 

[Xue Sheng]

The only thing I have ever said about a flying kick in an SD situation or in the street is you better be damn sure of your target before you try it

 

[RTKDCMB]

Some possible uses for jumping/flying kicks could be if you have to clear an object on the ground to kick someone attacking someone you are trying to protect while their not looking. Also if you are getting chased by someone and his friend jumps out in front of you to block your path you can kick them and continue on your way, barely missing a step. You can use them to rapidly gain distance, if you can make the jump for the kick sudden and without warning. You can also use a jump kick as part of a combination, for example a front kick to the groin that is blocked and then jump and kick with the supporting leg which would be quicker than putting the leg down first. Also jumping kicks don't necessarily have to be high kicks and you don't necessarily have to jump high to do them.

 

[K-man]

I mean it should be a no brainer. They are a movie kick not a self defence kick.

But then you look on YouTube. And see a guy pull it off. Against a knife
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sfCBY_S_4Qo

OK but a once off lucky shot does not make a trend.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QQez4jQO81c

Twice?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HItbJp1A1Ls

Three times?

Maybe there is something in it.

To me, these are nothing to do with SD. Two are simply assaults from behind a bit like a sucker punch and the other is a strategic move in a hostage situation in which the guy kicking may have been killed if the guy with the knife was determined to use it and the kicking guy didn't have support.
:asian:

 

[drop bear]

To me, these are nothing to do with SD. Two are simply assaults from behind a bit like a sucker punch and the other is a strategic move in a hostage situation in which the guy kicking may have been killed if the guy with the knife was determined to use it and the kicking guy didn't have support.
:asian:

Actual self defence has nothing to do with self defence?

 

[K-man]

Actual self defence has nothing to do with self defence?

Sorry, where was the self defence?
:asian:

 

[Zero]

As said, only a closed mind would say certain techniques can never be used in SD or “real life” but certain techniques may be as or more effective and with a lower risk level.

A mate of mine back in the day who trained in kenpo was a big fan of flying kicks, too much in my opinion (he used to use them in tournaments). But he did use a frontal flying kick when he was up against two guys on the street. He knocked the one guy down when he hit his chest and then got out of there. He is a smaller than average guy (but was a bit of a hot head). So sure, these things can be used. If against someone unsuspecting or intoxicated then they can be fine but if against someone who is on to it, you are terribly exposed being all up there in the air…

.

 

[drop bear]

As said, only a closed mind would say certain techniques can never be used in SD or “real life” but certain techniques may be as or more effective and with a lower risk level.

A mate of mine back in the day who trained in kenpo was a big fan of flying kicks, too much in my opinion (he used to use them in tournaments). But he did use a frontal flying kick when he was up against two guys on the street. He knocked the one guy down when he hit his chest and then got out of there. He is a smaller than average guy (but was a bit of a hot head). So sure, these things can be used. If against someone unsuspecting or intoxicated then they can be fine but if against someone who is on to it, you are terribly exposed being all up there in the air…

.

Depends on how you enter. Rushing at someone can be an all or nothing style attack. But if you are working with increased distances of say a street fight. You may need some sort of really big gap closing technique.


I think the effectiveness of the flying kick has to do with this change in dynamics when everybody is running around rather than stationary that flying kick affords a bit of safety.

I have faced flying knees an you have to be pretty stone cold to be trying g to counter punch someone while they are doing it.

 

[drop bear]

Sorry, where was the self defence?
:asian:

The not getting stabbed bit.

 

[MJS]

As it's been said, anything can work, under the right circumstances. That really goes for anything in our material that we have for our art, whichever art that may be. I might be able to do something that someone else can't, for whatever reason, ie: size, strength, etc. and the same goes for someone else. We're not all cut from the same mold, therefore, it's a no brainer that everyone will have their strong and weak points.

Me personally, I wouldn't want to do a jumping/flying kick, primarily because for ME, it's a low percentage move. That doesnt mean that under the right circumstances, someone younger, more flexible, etc, can't pull it off. Tony, IMO, said it best when he was talking about risk/reward ration. IMO, just because you might be able to kick someone in the head, well, hitting them in the groin might get a high reward.

 

[K-man]

The not getting stabbed bit.

The not getting stabbed bit was because he had someone else to grab the guy while the guy kicking was on his ****. And as I said, there is no suggestion of self defence in that scenario.

As to using a jumping kick for self defence ... "Well your Honour, I was four metres from the guy and I ran in and kicked him in the chest. I thought he was going to attack me. I had no idea he might land on his head."
:hmm:

 

[drop bear]

The not getting stabbed bit was because he had someone else to grab the guy while the guy kicking was on his ****. And as I said, there is no suggestion of self defence in that scenario.

As to using a jumping kick for self defence ... "Well your Honour, I was four metres from the guy and I ran in and kicked him in the chest. I thought he was going to attack me. I had no idea he might land on his head."
:hmm:

No rules in a street fight. What works works.

And that argument has been used successfully.

http://media.smh.com.au/flying-headbutt-man-not-guilty-416166.html

 

[drop bear]

As it's been said, anything can work, under the right circumstances. That really goes for anything in our material that we have for our art, whichever art that may be. I might be able to do something that someone else can't, for whatever reason, ie: size, strength, etc. and the same goes for someone else. We're not all cut from the same mold, therefore, it's a no brainer that everyone will have their strong and weak points.

Me personally, I wouldn't want to do a jumping/flying kick, primarily because for ME, it's a low percentage move. That doesnt mean that under the right circumstances, someone younger, more flexible, etc, can't pull it off. Tony, IMO, said it best when he was talking about risk/reward ration. IMO, just because you might be able to kick someone in the head, well, hitting them in the groin might get a high reward.

I am in the same I don't really leave the ground category. Maybe I might need to develop a flying knee or something.

 

[RTKDCMB]

No rules in a street fight. What works works.

And that argument has been used successfully.

http://media.smh.com.au/flying-headbutt-man-not-guilty-416166.html

He must have had a good lawyer.

 

[drop bear]

He must have had a good lawyer.

Yeah that decision was a travesty.

 

[K-man]

No rules in a street fight. What works works.

And that argument has been used successfully.

http://media.smh.com.au/flying-headbutt-man-not-guilty-416166.html

Three things.
The guy was lucky to get off.
This was nothing to do with self defence.
This was five years ago and more recent legislation has changed the landscape.

I hope you check out the laws of self defence before you ever get into a situation where you might find yourself in a fight. Either that or make sure you have one of Robert McLeod's legal guys.

He must have had a good lawyer.

That's exactly what happened.

Mrs Butcher said money talked in the WA legal system.
"When you have got lawyers like that, money speaks many languages," she said.
"If that's the way Australia's going to go - (the McLeods' lawyers are) very clever men, there's no doubt about that.''
www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/butchers-mum-slams-rough-justice-20090313-8wzd.html#ixzz2w11DT4B1

:asian:

 

[drop bear]

Three things.
The guy was lucky to get off.
This was nothing to do with self defence.
This was five years ago and more recent legislation has changed the landscape.

I hope you check out the laws of self defence before you ever get into a situation where you might find yourself in a fight. Either that or make sure you have one of Robert McLeod's legal guys.


That's exactly what happened.

:asian:

Who has been done for fly kicking people then?

Sure there are circumstances where it is blatantly illegal. I fly kick a baby out of a pram. There is no legal defence. But if the force and the objective is reasonable. Then there is less issue.

Do you feel the first video where a guy with a knife was fly kicked would be undefendable in court?

In a forum where we can kick guys knees out and some dude who is walking around with three knives. The fly kick seems pretty tame

More fly kicks..
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6iBFTIH-h4Q

 

[drop bear]

See this is the interesting thing between perception and reality.

Take that knee kick thread. Not one actual example of a knee kicked out. But because it seems intuitive it makes sense as a self defence move. And I agree that knee kick has merit.

But what have we now four flying kicks used on the street. But they have no worth because we believe they don't.

Flying kick.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P6t94e_IgDE

Interesting how people think isn't it.