Fixing the training model

[pdg]

Basically, there are people on here who present themselves as knowing what they're talking about, who teach grappling and related arts and who could probably (actually more than likely) deal with me without breaking a sweat.

Then there are the Hanzous, who project the methodology of "I'll just choke you out easily, grappling easily beats any form of striking".

Either you really are that good (which certainly doesn't come across) or you're just another deluded brainwashed fanboy who thinks they're superman.

I choose to interpret you as a member of the second group.

Those are everywhere, definitely not restricted to grappling, and the thing they have in common is even when they inevitably get proved wrong, they still deny it and blame the other person somehow.

 

[drop bear]

I've never even hinted at that.

Against a good grappler I'm going to be on floor trying to figure out how I ended up there.

Against a crap grappler I'm going to be stood over him while he wonders what happened.

Put against a BJJer of roughly similar ability as what I have in striking I stand a reasonable chance of not getting caught up, and he stands a reasonable chance of not getting hit.

My only argument is that BJJ or other grappling is not a magic badge of invincibility that trumps every other method and shouldn't be treated as such (which is seemingly where you have a huge gaping chasm in your understanding).

Hence do a c class fight it is pretty much made for first timers. You generally can't even get punched in the head on the deck. So worst thing that will happen is you will get subbed

 

[Tez3]

Hence do a c class fight it is pretty much made for first timers. You generally can't even get punched in the head on the deck. So worst thing that will happen is you will get subbed

We don't have 'c' class or any other classes really in the UK, as I said there is no governing body for MMA in the UK, no one overlooks rules etc so you could get yourself in a lot of trouble by being a complete beginner and not knowing what you are getting yourself into. Each promoter can do exactly what they want with exactly whatever rules they want, in practice it is mostly better than that but you may still not find a fight with rules that suit you.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Hence do a c class fight it is pretty much made for first timers. You generally can't even get punched in the head on the deck. So worst thing that will happen is you will get subbed

Even I might be tough enough for that.

 

[Martial D]

.

My only argument is that BJJ or other grappling is not a magic badge of invincibility that trumps every other method and shouldn't be treated as such (which is seemingly where you have a huge gaping chasm in your understanding).

It kind of is though. History has shown that grapplers without striking beat strikers without grappling almost every single time out. (See early UFC events)

 

[Tez3]

It kind of is though. History has shown that grapplers without striking beat strikers without grappling almost every single time out. (See early UFC events)

Early UFC isn't indicative of anything other than early UFC. Some of those fights were worked. There was also no drug testing with the obvious results.

 

[drop bear]

Even I might be tough enough for that.

It is designed almost as a full contact sparring session. And is generally designed for new fighters.

It would be a good opportunity for non MMAers to see what it is like.

I know a few boxers and kick boxers who try it just to see.

If someone's tkd isn't rubbish they should do alright. He would be going against a guy with 6 months training mabye.

 

[drop bear]

We don't have 'c' class or any other classes really in the UK, as I said there is no governing body for MMA in the UK, no one overlooks rules etc so you could get yourself in a lot of trouble by being a complete beginner and not knowing what you are getting yourself into. Each promoter can do exactly what they want with exactly whatever rules they want, in practice it is mostly better than that but you may still not find a fight with rules that suit you.

They still run them and call them C class though.

It is a reference point.

And pdg is better off getting subbed than spending 15 minutes getting elbowed.

 

[Martial D]

Early UFC isn't indicative of anything other than early UFC. Some of those fights were worked. There was also no drug testing with the obvious results.

Royce didn't look too roided out to me as he was steamrolling everyone.

 

[drop bear]

Royce didn't look too roided out to me as he was steamrolling everyone.

He got caught smoking the roids.

UFC veteran Royce Gracie refutes positive steroid test

 

[Tez3]

They still run them and call them C class though.

It is a reference point.

And pdg is better off getting subbed than spending 15 minutes getting elbowed.

Here we have amateur rules, semi pro and pro, sometimes you'll get 'first time' pro rules or basically whatever the promoter wants to call them.
The rules here will be whatever the promoter wants them to be and the fighters agree to. Many copy the 'UFC' rules but will still make some changes like 'no heel hooks' etc. Often amateur fights will allow strikes to the head standing but not on the ground ( which is often then same as other promotions semi pro rules), other ammy rules say no knees to the head, yet others insist on wearing what they call 'amateur' gloves, the ones that look like bag mitts which allow strikes to the head. We have a couple of ammy promotions with no strikes to the head at all while others allow strikes and elbows to the head, amateur meaning they aren't paid not that the rules are different.

 

[Hanzou]

Basically, there are people on here who present themselves as knowing what they're talking about, who teach grappling and related arts and who could probably (actually more than likely) deal with me without breaking a sweat.

Then there are the Hanzous, who project the methodology of "I'll just choke you out easily, grappling easily beats any form of striking".

Either you really are that good (which certainly doesn't come across) or you're just another deluded brainwashed fanboy who thinks they're superman.

I choose to interpret you as a member of the second group.

Those are everywhere, definitely not restricted to grappling, and the thing they have in common is even when they inevitably get proved wrong, they still deny it and blame the other person somehow.

Interesting that you view me simply telling you to pick up grappling experience if you're serious about entering MMA as some sort of attack on your style.

The difference between you and I is that I have an instructor grade in a striking art, which just happens to be the parent art of the style you currently take. Last I checked, you don't have an instructor grade in any grappling art, and it would appear that you have zero experience in any dedicated grappling art. So unless you're like me, you probably should take a step back and actually listen to what I'm trying to tell you.

I know where your deluded concepts come from, because I used to have similar delusions. I, like you believed that I could simply move around a grappler and do a few choice shots and knock the grappler out. I, like you, used to believe that I could kick someone in a particular spot at any given time and knock them out. I, like you used to believe that hitting pads really hard was just like hitting a moving target made of flesh and bone really hard. I, like you used to believe that Kata was more than what it actually was. Fortunately, it only took going a few rounds with an amateur boxer, and a few Judo classes to realize that I had been fed a spoonful of crap, and that I had to pretty much start from square one. I thought over time this mass delusion among Karate and TKD practicioners would dissipate as reality set in, but I guess I was expecting too much.

You're (probably facetiously) talking about actually fighting in a MMA bout without any grappling experience. I wish you the best of luck, because if you enter that octagon without any grappling experience, you have a good chance of ending up on your back with fists hitting you in the face.

 

[Hanzou]

Early UFC isn't indicative of anything other than early UFC. Some of those fights were worked. There was also no drug testing with the obvious results.

It established Bjj as the grappling standard in MMA. Bjj instructors are still called upon to coach MMA fighters to this day. Back when I was 100%, I taught grappling at an MMA gym. It was a nice bit of extra cash every few weeks, and I was only a purple belt.

 

[Tez3]

Royce didn't look too roided out to me as he was steamrolling everyone.

As I didn't name anyone why did you pick him?

 

[Tez3]

It established Bjj as the grappling standard in MMA.

Well the whole point of the UFC was publicise BJJ and make it marketable so it did it's job.

 

[Hanzou]

Well the whole point of the UFC was publicise BJJ and make it marketable so it did it's job.

For 25+ years? C'mon Tez..

Also Rickson popularized Bjj in Asia via Vale Tudo Japan and Pride. Was Vale Tudo Japan and Pride also a giant Gracie work as well?

 

[Martial D]

As I didn't name anyone why did you pick him?

Because he was the little grappler murking all the big strikers in early UFC.

 

[Tez3]

Because he was the little grappler murking all the big strikers in early UFC.

What on earth does that mean? Use English man.

For 25+ years? C'mon Tez..

Also Rickson popularized Bjj in Asia via Vale Tudo Japan and Pride. Was Vale Tudo Japan and Pride also a giant Gracie work as well?

And what are you on about? 24 years? Early UFC, which is what we were discussing, was primarily to publicise BJJ in the USA who didn't give a damn, still doesn't, about Asia. Rorion Grace was one of the organisers of UFC1.

 

[Hanzou]

And what are you on about? 24 years? Early UFC, which is what we were discussing, was primarily to publicise BJJ in the USA who didn't give a damn, still doesn't, about Asia. Rorion Grace was one of the organisers of UFC1.

And my point was that if it wasn't legit, it wouldn't have maintained its position as a MMA mainstay.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Honestly with that background you could probably say purple belt in Bjj and get away with it.

I wouldnt agree with that, just knowing my own skill level with the ground (less than purple belt). But, my point was rather than a comment box they specifically ask for my bjj belt rank. So i have no way to explain my sambo experience at all, or my length of time or rank in any other art. Not a good way to match people, IMO.