Five Martial Arts Principles

[jobo]

It's already a very constructive medium (conversation) and I've been rather constructive this entire time. There's a growing global, species wide trend towards nurturing, overly-constructive, weak, limp, soft, womanly value systems and ways of thinking and believing that's many degrees separated from reality. That's the future we're moving towards, that's the time we live in. Martial arts, or fighting, of all things, should be much more masculine (what silly liberal and social justice bleeding hearts would call this authentic masculinity is "hyper-masculine chauvinistic misogynistic mental illness") and non-inclusive, yes. If you are rejected for being terrible at fighting, or knowing nothing about fighting and doing empty movements that have no application in a real fight, then you should be rejected and go train legitimately on your own or with your friends until you are worth your weight in salt. If you truly want to improve and take legitimate advice though, and show improvement, then the more inclusive 'gateway' communities should accept you even if you're still terrible. I call them gateway communities because they are a gateway to communities of a higher standard of membership, if you want to go further.

You can be unfriendly and exclusive, but still constructive or 'have a point'. Bottom line. This chaos you speak of isn't a meaningless nightmare that you say it is. There are real things happening the entire time, and it's rich with details, principles, techniques, mind games, even spiritual struggles. Your "animalistic emotions" aren't something abstract or very far away. I haven't trained much my entire life, so after a bit of training (including fighting specific training) I'll be comfortable walking the streets, confronting **** talk, building up and defending my pride and dignity. If I die I die, but that would be weak ******** so I'd rather burn in the afterlife and crawl my way back to life than accept death. Avoiding it is cowardice. I'm not going to live forever and neither is anyone else.

If you want to talk about the diagram I'm game.

to be honest after that outburst id strongly recommend you take some,counselling

some of the folk on here at expert at fighting, most are very accomplished ma, all are committed to go through the pain to be better, I'm not sure what has given you the idea we have. femine traits, even the females are hard as nails

 

[Primal Monk]

That is a very generalized statement that shows someone who has a rather narrow view of life. There is a reason we have organs of perception, as do other living things in this world. The systems responsible for our senses and feeding information to our brain contribute to that very thing you think life isn't about - appearances. Visual, auditory, olfactory, and kinesthetic appearances. Our first impressions are driven by appearances. Our interests are driven by appearances. Our choices are driven by appearances. That's quite a lot for something life isn't about.



You didn't create this forum and you don't get to decide what it should or should not be. You could set up another forum and dictate the rules there. If you want to continue being a part of this forum, then work with how this forum operates.


Another extremely generalized statement which suggests a lack of variety in conversation.

You know... after composer Frederic Chopin broke up with his lover of eight years, writer George Sand, his main frustration was not that it was a nasty breakup, but that her remarks about him were taken by others as absolute truth. For example, she described his method of work as very emotional, with constant running up and down the room, tugging at his hair, groaning, breaking quills, ripping paper, etc. In fact, he himself stated he was a very calm, methodical worker, with a very well-defined schedule and a very structured approach to work. People had a hard time believing it because his music was imbued with such great emotion. But that's the way it was - he arrived at it through a very calm approach.

So, just because something is calm doesn't mean it's ineffective or meaningless. As an engineer and an analyst, I can testify the best ideas can be generated through all sorts of interaction - both the calm, structured ones and the crazy, bouncing off the wall ones. I have over 20 years of professional experience to prove it. Perhaps you should try it before you dismiss it.

"both the calm, structured ones and the crazy, bouncing off the wall ones."
So you're saying you agree with my behavior because you believe both the calm polite mode of conversation and the "crazy, bouncing off the walls" kind both work? Great.

 

[AngryHobbit]

"both the calm, structured ones and the crazy, bouncing off the wall ones."
So you're saying you agree with my behavior because you believe both the calm polite mode of conversation and the "crazy, bouncing off the walls" kind both work? Great.

Not at all. Read carefully what I said.

I am saying great ideas and great conversations can be had both in calm conversations and in emotional ones. So, I am advising against dismissing the calm conversations just because you think they are boring.

This isn't Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. There is no running up walls and flying through the air. People here know how to fight, but that's not ALL they do. They also like to have intelligent discussions about what they do and things they have learned. If that is boring to you, that's not anyone's problem but yours. Nobody is going to dance around and throw flying kicks just to entertain you.

 

[Primal Monk]

Not at all. Read carefully what I said.

I am saying great ideas and great conversations can be had both in calm conversations and in emotional ones. So, I am advising against dismissing the calm conversations just because you think they are boring.

This isn't Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. There is no running up walls and flying through the air. People here know how to fight, but that's not ALL they do. They also like to have intelligent discussions about what they do and things they have learned. If that is boring to you, that's not anyone's problem but yours. Nobody is going to dance around and throw flying kicks just to entertain you.

This entire thread has been a huge misunderstanding, start to finish.
Believing that calm conversation is the ONLY legitimate way was what I was trying to dismiss. I've been strawmanned or misrepresented here and back again; I don't like eastern martial arts movies. This has nothing to do with exploiting people for entertainment.
Intelligent conversations would mean more if you could see how people are training or executing moves. That's it. That's the point. Then you could critique with substance and know what sort of training is relevant to a person if they seek out advice or recognize their own flaws or not.
The original topic was about four areas to improve in, plus my own addition that I think others would agree with. Then we could have had a conversation about, say, how someone moves at higher levels, how they don't move, post videos of people at different levels, etc.

 

[_Simon_]

that spinning back kick needs work

Tehehe thought that'd be picked up XD. Which one, the first one (jumping spinning), or second (normal spinning)? I thought the first was pretty good and accurate with power, but the second wasn't exactly accurate. I was already fairly fatigued at that point, but yeah every now and then there'll be an off back kick which I'm gonna work on...

It's already a very constructive medium (conversation) and I've been rather constructive this entire time. There's a growing global, species wide trend towards nurturing, overly-constructive, weak, limp, soft, womanly value systems and ways of thinking and believing that's many degrees separated from reality. That's the future we're moving towards, that's the time we live in. Martial arts, or fighting, of all things, should be much more masculine (what silly liberal and social justice bleeding hearts would call this authentic masculinity is "hyper-masculine chauvinistic misogynistic mental illness") and non-inclusive, yes. If you are rejected for being terrible at fighting, or knowing nothing about fighting and doing empty movements that have no application in a real fight, then you should be rejected and go train legitimately on your own or with your friends until you are worth your weight in salt. If you truly want to improve and take legitimate advice though, and show improvement, then the more inclusive 'gateway' communities should accept you even if you're still terrible. I call them gateway communities because they are a gateway to communities of a higher standard of membership, if you want to go further.

You can be unfriendly and exclusive, but still constructive or 'have a point'. Bottom line. This chaos you speak of isn't a meaningless nightmare that you say it is. There are real things happening the entire time, and it's rich with details, principles, techniques, mind games, even spiritual struggles. Your "animalistic emotions" aren't something abstract or very far away. I haven't trained much my entire life, so after a bit of training (including fighting specific training) I'll be comfortable walking the streets, confronting **** talk, building up and defending my pride and dignity. If I die I die, but that would be weak ******** so I'd rather burn in the afterlife and crawl my way back to life than accept death; realistically that means surviving a stabbing or beating that would kill others, and recovering faster. Avoiding it is cowardice. I'm not going to live forever and neither is anyone else. If I really want to live I have to face death.

If you want to talk about the diagram I'm game.

Okeydokey! I think any extreme is really not helpful... there's certainly a time and a place for each approach.

I have a feeling we're all going to be in conflict due to different understandings of definitions (semantics always gets us hehe).

To me the masculine energy is not in being abrasive, disrespectful, conflicting, divisive. To me it's a directness, firmness, and 'yang' energy. It's the focused will. When imbalanced and brought to the extreme then it becomes problematic, not only within interactions, but internally. The female energy is the ultimate 'yin', allowingness, nurturing. Which is NOT weak. When it gets imbalances it can be overly complimentary, overly nurturing and people pleasing for sure. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm not sure of this worldview you have that the world is all going "soft"... Feels like a very frightened, pretend to be 'strong' mentality... life doesn't have to be so forceful... but up to you

What's the weight and material of the bag?

No idea hehe! I'll weigh when I get home!

 

[Xue Sheng]

This entire thread has been a huge misunderstanding, start to finish.
Believing that calm conversation is the ONLY legitimate way was what I was trying to dismiss. I've been strawmanned or misrepresented here and back again; I don't like eastern martial arts movies. This has nothing to do with exploiting people for entertainment.
Intelligent conversations would mean more if you could see how people are training or executing moves. That's it. That's the point. Then you could critique with substance and know what sort of training is relevant to a person if they seek out advice or recognize their own flaws or not.
The original topic was about four areas to improve in, plus my own addition that I think others would agree with. Then we could have had a conversation about, say, how someone moves at higher levels, how they don't move, post videos of people at different levels, etc.

A conversation is the informal exchange of ideas by spoken words.
Intelligence is the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.

For in intelligent conversation you tend to need ground rules such as

(1) Accept the other person WILL disagree with you.
(2) No name calling or personal attacks. Ever!
(3) Always be polite.
(4) Try and understand from their point of view.
(5) Be willing to check your facts, and admit when you need more information or need to do more research.
(6) Separate the emotional from the factual.
(7) Be humble in victory and gracious in defeat.

And if we were to have intelligent conversation based on those rules you have already violate at least 6 of them possibly all 7. And no where in the definition of conversation or intelligence is there a requirement for video proof.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

to be honest after that outburst id strongly recommend you take some,counselling

some of the folk on here at expert at fighting, most are very accomplished ma, all are committed to go through the pain to be better, I'm not sure what has given you the idea we have. femine traits, even the females are hard as nails

After that one, I'm actually starting to agree with those who called "troll" earlier.

 

[jobo]

This entire thread has been a huge misunderstanding, start to finish.
Believing that calm conversation is the ONLY legitimate way was what I was trying to dismiss. I've been strawmanned or misrepresented here and back again; I don't like eastern martial arts movies. This has nothing to do with exploiting people for entertainment.
Intelligent conversations would mean more if you could see how people are training or executing moves. That's it. That's the point. Then you could critique with substance and know what sort of training is relevant to a person if they seek out advice or recognize their own flaws or not.
The original topic was about four areas to improve in, plus my own addition that I think others would agree with. Then we could have had a conversation about, say, how someone moves at higher levels, how they don't move, post videos of people at different levels, etc.

there is a whole section just for the posting of vids, but most people just want to chat, debate about topics,at least loosely connected with ma, and who are you to tell them that wrong?

 

[jobo]

After that one, I'm actually starting to agree with those who called "troll" earlier.

I'm still going with Ernest but has " issues"

 

[Primal Monk]

Tehehe thought that'd be picked up XD. Which one, the first one (jumping spinning), or second (normal spinning)? I thought the first was pretty good and accurate with power, but the second wasn't exactly accurate. I was already fairly fatigued at that point, but yeah every now and then there'll be an off back kick which I'm gonna work on...



Okeydokey! I think any extreme is really not helpful... there's certainly a time and a place for each approach.

I have a feeling we're all going to be in conflict due to different understandings of definitions (semantics always gets us hehe).

To me the masculine energy is not in being abrasive, disrespectful, conflicting, divisive. To me it's a directness, firmness, and 'yang' energy. It's the focused will. When imbalanced and brought to the extreme then it becomes problematic, not only within interactions, but internally. The female energy is the ultimate 'yin', allowingness, nurturing. Which is NOT weak. When it gets imbalances it can be overly complimentary, overly nurturing and people pleasing for sure. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm not sure of this worldview you have that the world is all going "soft"... Feels like a very frightened, pretend to be 'strong' mentality... life doesn't have to be so forceful... but up to you




No idea hehe! I'll weigh when I get home!

I think it would make more sense if you set an intention for what to demonstrate and then make the video. Part of the reason why I made this thread. Demonstrate footwork/getting in and out of range, the hardest hits you can manage, dodging in an image fight (shadow boxing/kickboxing) scenario and pantomime a grapple/throw, and comboing while image fighting. Also try to demonstrate athleticism. Try to mix them into one cohesive video. I'm going to look up what boxers and others do and their standards of excellence and put up a video of that.

 

[AngryHobbit]

This entire thread has been a huge misunderstanding, start to finish.
Believing that calm conversation is the ONLY legitimate way was what I was trying to dismiss. I've been strawmanned or misrepresented here and back again; I don't like eastern martial arts movies. This has nothing to do with exploiting people for entertainment.
Intelligent conversations would mean more if you could see how people are training or executing moves. That's it. That's the point. Then you could critique with substance and know what sort of training is relevant to a person if they seek out advice or recognize their own flaws or not.
The original topic was about four areas to improve in, plus my own addition that I think others would agree with. Then we could have had a conversation about, say, how someone moves at higher levels, how they don't move, post videos of people at different levels, etc.

Maybe - just POSSIBLY - it would be a little less of a misunderstanding if you expressed yourself clearly and stopped putting words into people's mouths. And complained less about how you are being misunderstood in your self-perceived depths.

Nobody here said calm conversation is the only legitimate way. Not one person. People pointed out that calm conversation was a legitimate way to exchange ideas. You seem to have a problem with it.

Also, it's not like people go to a martial arts class with a video camera. So, not many of us have any videos of ourselves training. Are we supposed to create some just so you would believe we train? If you want videos, go to YouTube - there are plenty of good ones and plenty of really awful ones. There are videos of the great masters showing a variety of forms. Go watch those.

 

[AngryHobbit]

A conversation is the informal exchange of ideas by spoken words.
Intelligence is the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.

For in intelligent conversation you tend to need ground rules such as

(1) Accept the other person WILL disagree with you.
(2) No name calling or personal attacks. Ever!
(3) Always be polite.
(4) Try and understand from their point of view.
(5) Be willing to check your facts, and admit when you need more information or need to do more research.
(6) Separate the emotional from the factual.
(7) Be humble in victory and gracious in defeat.

And if we were to have intelligent conversation based on those rules you have already violate at least 6 of them possibly all 7. And no where in the definition of conversation or intelligence is there a requirement for video proof.

I love you, Xue! Can I send you chocolates?

 

[AngryHobbit]

No idea hehe! I'll weigh when I get home!

Hey, while you are at it, you might want to also do a density measurement and spectral analysis of the stuffing in the bag, and determine the exact composition of the alloy of the ring the bag hangs off of. ;-)

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think it would make more sense if you set an intention for what to demonstrate and then make the video. Part of the reason why I made this thread. Demonstrate footwork/getting in and out of range, the hardest hits you can manage, dodging in an image fight (shadow boxing/kickboxing) scenario and pantomime a grapple/throw, and comboing while image fighting. Also try to demonstrate athleticism. Try to mix them into one cohesive video. I'm going to look up what boxers and others do and their standards of excellence and put up a video of that.

If that was your intention, where is your video?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Hey, while you are at it, you might want to also do a density measurement and spectral analysis of the stuffing in the bag, and determine the exact composition of the alloy of the ring the bag hangs off of. ;-)

Nerd.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Just curious.. so because it's a forum about martial arts, you believe the conversation should replicate fighting? So in essence you're literally looking for a fight? I'm just curious, that's a very different view on life... It's like you're saying that we should be unfriendly and uninclusive, how does separating us further result in anything constructive, or in any place conducive of learning?

There is at least one other poster here who has stated outright that he considers conversation to be akin to a sparring match; something to "win." It's a good enough reason to ignore most of what they say.

In an actual fight there is no coherence, logic or rationality. Primarily pure animalistic emotions arise, it's just about survival. Is that how you want this forum to be?

This is not even close to true. I am involved in physical confrontations regularly. Far more regularly than I'd like. And at no time, even when my life has been in danger, have I ever responded in anything other than a calculating manner. I think. I plan. I do. If you're responding emotionally, I suspect your training and experience is lacking. Or you're just a person who can't control their emotions.
You can debate on what percentage of people fall into which category (emotional vs non-emotional response) but I do not think that you'll find anything other than anecdotal evidence.

 

[AngryHobbit]

Nerd.

Oh, and calculate the heat transfer rate as a function of the duration and frequency of punches. WHAT?!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Oh, and calculate the heat transfer rate as a function of the duration and frequency of punches. WHAT?!

We have a "useful" rating. Why not a "useless" one?

 

[Xue Sheng]

I love you, Xue! Can I send you chocolates?

Dark Chocolate will suffice...no nuts

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Dark Chocolate will suffice...no nuts

And he's good with quite dark chocolate. But not 99%.