First visit to an ATA school

[Dave Leverich]

Man, d1jinx I hear you.
I think the sparring has been ... bastardized by the rule-set.
It's like watching NASKA and realizing they'd get killed in a full-contact scenario due to the rules breeding in a strange skillset. The hoppy leg thing, always cracks me up (I see it in other TKD orgs as well, same reason I believe).

Allow leg kicks or sweeps, hands to the head, hoppy leg sydrome goes away .

 

[msmitht]

Actually no, that's not correct.
The state champion program is set up that way, but the world champion program requires competition at the worlds tournament in which the top 10 people whittle down to the top 1 etc. The point system just gets people a shot at the title.

Ok...So the best of the worst get the title of World Champion (LOL) and those who get gold at the USAT nationals are only national champions. How is that right?
How can they even call it a world championship? I have looked at their web site and only ATA schools may attend. Sure you have to be a member of the usat to compete at nationals but your school doesn't need to be an official club.
Why dont they call it the world champion of tag and dance?

 

[Dave Leverich]

Actually the competitors are generally of pretty high caliber in the top 10. Obviously it's hard to compare to a similar ruleset such as NASKA without seeing them compete in the same tournaments. Though some do compete in NASKA I don't have the numbers.

As far as a 'worlds' competition, there is the WTTU (UK/Canada etc), STF (South America) and ATA. There is also recent talk of the Worlds including other orgs such as the tops in NASKA etc.

USAT btw is not connected with the ATA.

Your issues with point sparring are again an issue with ruleset. It's like complaining that fencing isn't 'teh r3al' due to it being tag/hit etc, it's not the same as full on sword-fighting.

I personally compete in MMA due to similar issues.

As an afterthought, I know of at least 2-3 of the top 10 competitors (in my own division, mens 4th/5th degree 30-39) from last year that are active in MMA competition (at least one on the professional level). Most likely due to similar thoughts on how they'd like to compete.

I guess I'm getting a lot of 'har har ATA' from your posts, but not much based in actual first-hand knowledge of things. I'm not saying there aren't a lot of examples of the original post, just that there is a spectrum out there. I think in the case of the OP you have a situation of 'babies making babies' where inexperienced people start schools and can't teach what they haven't learned.

 

[Dave Leverich]

OOps, just realized you were the original poster.
I do think what you experienced was the later case 'babies teaching babies'.

I don't think I'd be impressed with any 2nd degree's school, in comparison with my last 25 years of training in the arts. (Or was it a 1st degree?).

By the way, we share a similar lineage it seems; my line was from MDK via Clint Robinson & Willie Rankins. They'd trained under J H Lee (GM Kang/GM Hwang Kee) in Korea in TSD which then migrated to TKD etc. And, were founding fathers of ATA on the west coast. The ATA being the 'right hand' of the ITF in the US in the 70's (Under GM Kang).

Ps. Yes, I'm an ATA black belt. 4th dan as of 2008. I haven't been a 'rank hunter' as I've also studied numerous other styles in my journey.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Although, i suppose that would require admitting that the kids programs aren't martial training so much as character building...

Funny thing is that most schools that have a kids program would probably prefer to do this, but parents really want to think that their eight year old is Chuck Norris. If they do not hear 'real martial program' at one school, they will go to another, and another and another until they get what they want. Eventually, someone will figure out that if they tell mom and pop that it is a martial arts class just like the adults, mom and pop will then fork over the cash, even though the program is virually identical to the kids programs at all of the other schools that they had visited previously.

Daniel

 

[clfsean]

In this area of the country many ATA schools actually are called "Karate for Kids." I'm not trying to be funny, it's what they have on their signs.

They advertise that way here at a big (seriously the stand alone building is pretty dadgummed big) ATA school down the road from my house.

 

[just2kicku]

There's an ATA school by my house. As we were walking by one night, the instructor came out and tried to get me to sign up my 2 year old.

I looked in the class and these guys were horrible. I will train my son when I think he's ready for it. I don't really need to pay someone to teach him stuff like stranger danger when I can do that at home.

The problem with these guys is that they have their students brainwashed to thinking that they are the be all end all, and then isolate them from any tourneys except their own. so when your around a bunch of people telling you how great something is, and that's all you've ever been exposed to, you start to think that way also.

It's not till they get their *** handed to them in the street that maybe they'll figure it out.

 

[Cirdan]

Watching power rangers on the tv is better than training with ATA

 

[celtic_crippler]

There's an ATA school by my house. As we were walking by one night, the instructor came out and tried to get me to sign up my 2 year old.

I looked in the class and these guys were horrible. I will train my son when I think he's ready for it. I don't really need to pay someone to teach him stuff like stranger danger when I can do that at home.

The problem with these guys is that they have their students brainwashed to thinking that they are the be all end all, and then isolate them from any tourneys except their own. so when your around a bunch of people telling you how great something is, and that's all you've ever been exposed to, you start to think that way also.

It's not till they get their *** handed to them in the street that maybe they'll figure it out.

By then it could be too late.

But that's really true of any school, organization, style...whatever. If you live in bubble...you live in a bubble. Know what I mean?

Watching power rangers on the tv is better than training with ATA

I didn't know there was a difference.

 

[Frostbite]

I didn't know there was a difference.

Better choreography.

 

[clfsean]

I didn't know there was a difference.

God yes there's a difference... the Power Rangers had Amy Jo Johnson!!!

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I didn't know there was a difference.

One big difference: you can own the entire series and movies on DVD for probably less than the sign up costs first months tuition for the ATA.

That and the rangers wear spandex. Who can argue with Amy Jo Johnson in spandex?

They also have Jason Frank, who is the real deal (though you certainly will not see any of his capabilities on the show).

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Every time I see an ATA thread on any board, I am always saddened by the fact that nothing about their actual system is ever discussed. I know that they use Songham forms. That is about it.

Nearly every ATA topic revolves around charges of lousy teaching, underhanded business practices, and overpriced programs, all encouraged by the org.

As a result, any merits of the system are lost, seemingly on the students as well as those of us who read these threads. And it would seem that they have only themselves to blame.

Daniel

 

[Twin Fist]

you know Daniel, maybe that ought to tell you something, right there.

 

[stoneheart]

Every time I see an ATA thread on any board, I am always saddened by the fact that nothing about their actual system is ever discussed. I know that they use Songham forms. That is about it.

Nearly every ATA topic revolves around charges of lousy teaching, underhanded business practices, and overpriced programs, all encouraged by the org.

As a result, any merits of the system are lost, seemingly on the students as well as those of us who read these threads. And it would seem that they have only themselves to blame.

Daniel

The ATA curriculum is certainly as decent as most other TKD systems. They offer the usual one step sparring routines with an absurd focus on high kicks, considering the range the student is within after making an obligatory first block. Their forms are difficult to perform since they contain many kicks, even jumping and spinning ones, but applications fans will be disappointed since they are really just techniques strung together. Sparring is non-contact in many schools, which is a big failing in my book.

I think you could take the Songahm system and with a bit of retooling you could have a very robust syllabus to teach from. Unfortunately, the rah-rah character-building stuff really IS the focus of the org IMO rather than developing superior taekwondoists.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

you know Daniel, maybe that ought to tell you something, right there.

Yes. This is what it tells me:

Unfortunately, the rah-rah character-building stuff really IS the focus of the org IMO rather than developing superior taekwondoists.

And that takes all of the attention away from the system itself, unfortunately.

Daniel

 

[DMcHenry]

The school I saw (was formerly an ATA school, now an off-shoot) there was a lot of clapping that went on, wasn't sure if that was in all their schools or not. Many of the students still wore their ATA uniforms/t-shirts.

 

[d1jinx]

The school I saw (was formerly an ATA school, now an off-shoot) there was a lot of clapping that went on, wasn't sure if that was in all their schools or not. Many of the students still wore their ATA uniforms/t-shirts.

The instructor must not been able to pay the franchise fee and got his ATA backing revoked.

 

[DMcHenry]

They were part of a handfull of schools that split off and created a new association.

 

[Jphtkd]

Robinson and Rankins were not under J.H. Lee until the 90's, prior to that, Robinson was the ATA region 107 vice president. They still run their schools like ATA schools and hand out 4th dan black belts to 16 year old kids.

OOps, just realized you were the original poster.
I do think what you experienced was the later case 'babies teaching babies'.

I don't think I'd be impressed with any 2nd degree's school, in comparison with my last 25 years of training in the arts. (Or was it a 1st degree?).

By the way, we share a similar lineage it seems; my line was from MDK via Clint Robinson & Willie Rankins. They'd trained under J H Lee (GM Kang/GM Hwang Kee) in Korea in TSD which then migrated to TKD etc. And, were founding fathers of ATA on the west coast. The ATA being the 'right hand' of the ITF in the US in the 70's (Under GM Kang).

Ps. Yes, I'm an ATA black belt. 4th dan as of 2008. I haven't been a 'rank hunter' as I've also studied numerous other styles in my journey.