Firearms training?

[oftheherd1]

On the majority of small to medium calibre gas operated semi auto pistols the biggest contributor to recoil (or kickback if you will) is the mass of the slide moving.

The force exerted by the gas pressure to make the slide move really isn't that large, and I'd say that if you're capable of lifting a pint to drink it you'd have sufficient hand strength to stop the slide, well, sliding.

Note, that doesn't stop the gun firing that time, but it stops it self loading another round.

Probably not a high value move, but if you can grab and redirect that first shot (and hold the slide with that grab) you've effectively just turned a firearm into a knuckle duster.

Let me pick a nit (you probably know that is what nitpickers do; pick nits ). Gas operated weapons let a small amount of the gas to be diverted out of the barrel to a piston head to move the bolt backwards. Most simi or auto pistols I am aware of use blow back to move the slide back.

But I get your point.

 

[hoshin1600]

how do i disarm someone with a gun? offer them a Klondike Bar in exchange for the gun.....works every time.

 

[pdg]

Let me pick a nit (you probably know that is what nitpickers do; pick nits ). Gas operated weapons let a small amount of the gas to be diverted out of the barrel to a piston head to move the bolt backwards. Most simi or auto pistols I am aware of use blow back to move the slide back.

But I get your point.

Yes, fair distinction on something I worded badly...

It's still relatively easy to stop it chambering another round though.

 

[Tez3]

Let me pick a nit (you probably know that is what nitpickers do; pick nits ).

British schools years back used to have nurses to check children's hair for nits, getting off lessons for 'Nitty Nora' to check your head was great fun...………...

 

[pdg]

British schools years back used to have nurses to check children's hair for nits, getting off lessons for 'Nitty Nora' to check your head was great fun...………...

And they had a special comb too.

 

[oftheherd1]

British schools years back used to have nurses to check children's hair for nits, getting off lessons for 'Nitty Nora' to check your head was great fun...………...

When I was a kid we used to accuse other kids of having cooties.

A quick google of the term:

The earliest recorded uses of the term in English are by British soldiers during the First World War to refer to lice that proliferated in battlefield trenches.

The lice of the First World War trenches nicknamed "cooties" were also known as "arithmetic bugs" because "they added to our troubles, subtracted from our pleasures, divided our attention, and multiplied like hell

 

[oftheherd1]

how do i disarm someone with a gun? offer them a Klondike Bar in exchange for the gun.....works every time.

That would make an interesting commercial.

 

[oftheherd1]

And they had a special comb too.

Those still exist; really close teeth to catch not only the nits/cooties, but their eggs.

Who is the dummy who misdirected this from gun defense to nits?

Oh, me.

 

[jks9199]

And also, not a thing that I think even most police departments do (and harder for a school), you should have a blank round in a plugged barrel to get used to the fact that the weapon will likely fire and make a lot of noise as well as kick a bit..

No.

Just plain NO.

Even with the best preparation, there's always a possibly of something being sent out of the barrel. That's what killed Brandon Lee... and others have been hurt. Use marking cartridges, use Airsoft-type guns, etc... but make sure that whatever you use is designed to be used for training and then use appropriate safety measures. If you want to get used to the sound (auditory exclusion during an actual gun disarm will probably negate any issues...), use blanks fired in the vicinity but pointed in a safe direction.

 

[oftheherd1]

No.

Just plain NO.

Even with the best preparation, there's always a possibly of something being sent out of the barrel. That's what killed Brandon Lee... and others have been hurt. Use marking cartridges, use Airsoft-type guns, etc... but make sure that whatever you use is designed to be used for training and then use appropriate safety measures. If you want to get used to the sound (auditory exclusion during an actual gun disarm will probably negate any issues...), use blanks fired in the vicinity but pointed in a safe direction.

Sounds like all good ideas. Thanks.

 

[AlecBeach]

On the majority of small to medium calibre gas operated semi auto pistols the biggest contributor to recoil (or kickback if you will) is the mass of the slide moving.

The force exerted by the gas pressure to make the slide move really isn't that large, and I'd say that if you're capable of lifting a pint to drink it you'd have sufficient hand strength to stop the slide, well, sliding.

Note, that doesn't stop the gun firing that time, but it stops it self loading another round.

Probably not a high value move, but if you can grab and redirect that first shot (and hold the slide with that grab) you've effectively just turned a firearm into a knuckle duster.

Only problem is the first round firing

 

[pdg]

Only problem is the first round firing

Hence the second two paragraphs and the caveat of redirecting that first shot...

 

[AlecBeach]

Yes....shoot them probably multiple times until they no longer a threat.

Good idea

 

[AlecBeach]

Put your finger over the end of the barrel so the bullet can't get out.

Or point over their shoulder and say "look out", then flip the safety on while they're distracted.

In either case, they'll be really confused and probably just hand the gun over because they'll think it's broken.

Damn... I should have known...

 

[APOModern]

I wonder if there is a specific practice or study dedicated to this technique...

 

[AlecBeach]

I wonder if there is a specific practice or study dedicated to this technique...

I imagine there is.. I see videos all the time of people practicing with dummy guns in a Do-Jo environment. Maybe classes around me in Cali...

 

[APOModern]

I imagine there is.. I see videos all the time of people practicing with dummy guns in a Do-Jo environment. Maybe classes around me in Cali...

I'd imagine it'd be tough to find that kind of stuff in your state, but maybe look around for a class or establishment for that

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Yes, but not getting shot in the process wasn't excluded in the criteria mentioned!


Since it was brought up, simunition rounds work well for this type of training, i believe air soft might as well but i dont know if they can go out of battery. This is for live training for a lack of better words, if you need to see if you will get shot or not while training and not just doing disarms.

 

[APOModern]

Yes, but not getting shot in the process wasn't excluded in the criteria mentioned!


Since it was brought up, simunition rounds work well for this type of training, i believe air soft might as well but i dont know if they can go out of battery. This is for live training for a lack of better words, if you need to see if you will get shot or not while training and not just doing disarms.

Personally, I do airsoft for fun but have done it for force on force training with a company in my area near me a handful of times. It's a good tool for getting someone comfortable with the physical aspect of being near a firearm without "real" danger. Pretty cheap too.

 

[AlecBeach]

Personally, I do airsoft for fun but have done it for force on force training with a company in my area near me a handful of times. It's a good tool for getting someone comfortable with the physical aspect of being near a firearm without "real" danger. Pretty cheap too.

Aren't those things bulky and toyish like the paintball stuff though?