fighting or self defense

[thetruth]

Does one have to be able to fight to be able to defend oneself?

Has the mixed martial arts given people a false sense of what does and doesn't work?

By that I mean that because of the rules in mma there is no choice but to fight and due to the fact that these guys are tough, people have tended to relate this directly to defending oneself and has them believing that other arts are not as effective. I know I can defend myself very well but if I had to punch on so to speak against a big guy chances are I would cop a flogging.

I have read many comments in here and in you tube where people see a martial art of some sort and comment that a mma guy would kick their ***.

Any thoughts would be most welcome.

Cheers
Sam:asian:

 

[The Kidd]

Just like you said fighting and defending oneself are different, you can defend yourself with one technique and end the confrontation and still not be able to get into a ring and win.

 

[Robert Lee]

I think the MMA circiut has helped expose the fact That alot of what is trained is not useable most often. We all learn many types of tool training. But in effect we have a base line use that works well for each of us. And yes as said you can defend yourself with just 1 hit. But not all that often, Sad but true just a small workable amount of tools is better trained more uaseable then the mountion of many tools that most arts offer. And M/A training does not make the better fighter the person fighting makes the better fighter Guts/heart to fight on means alot about winning or not.

 

[Lisa]

I think we are beating a dead horse here and I predict that this thread will end up being a heated debate going around in endless circles ending no where but causing a lot of grief.

We have all had this debate before people. Lets not get our knickers in a twist and start another one.

 

[Rook]

Does one have to be able to fight to be able to defend oneself?

Yes. To avoid situations where you have to defend yourself, no.

Has the mixed martial arts given people a false sense of what does and doesn't work?

Quite the opposite. MMA gives people the opportunity to see what works and doesn't work according to the laws of physics instead of people's imaginations.

By that I mean that because of the rules in mma there is no choice but to fight and due to the fact that these guys are tough, people have tended to relate this directly to defending oneself and has them believing that other arts are not as effective. I know I can defend myself very well but if I had to punch on so to speak against a big guy chances are I would cop a flogging.

If you can avoid it, you shouldn't fight. If you have to fight, it is preferable not to do it unarmed. But if you have to fight, and it has to be unarmed, MMA is about as good of training as you are likely to get. Like all training, you should hope that you don't have to use it (or use it again if you already have).

It just goes with the idea of comparing like against like to see which method produces a result better. If you want to test your unarmed fighting techniques, MMA is a good place to do it. If you want to test your firearms techniques, there are competitions for that too. If you want to test your ability to run away, there are track competitions for that. But don't compare apples and oranges and start talking about being a good unarmed fighter and being able to avoid or escape confrontations as though they were two mutually exclusive options.

I have read many comments in here and in you tube where people see a martial art of some sort and comment that a mma guy would kick their ***.

Any thoughts would be most welcome.

I think the way in which some of my fellow MMA proponents go about promoting their art is frequently at the very least rude and at times offensive. However, the message itself has a great deal of merit and it should be considered carefully if it is to be rejected.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Does one have to be able to fight to be able to defend oneself

NO

one can run
one can shoot someone
one can try to stay out of situations where a fight might occure
One can try to walk away even if stuck
one can pick up the cell phone and call police
one can try to reason verbaly with others

now all or some of these may not work at any given time but they are options

Has the mixed martial arts given people a false sense of what does and doesn't work?

even the MMA has rules against fingers to the eyes , groin kick, etc. Things that might well be used in a real fight

 

[kidswarrior]

Just like you said fighting and defending oneself are different, you can defend yourself with one technique and end the confrontation and still not be able to get into a ring and win.

I'm not going to get into this debate again, but I will say this is about the most succinct and sensible response I've seen on the subject.

 

[thetruth]

I am not trying to start a traditional vs mma argument because they are both good and I am sure a mma guy can defend themselves. I am just saying that although mma guys can fight they leave out far too many techniques because of their rules. I know I can defend myself well but if I was restricted to the rules of mma I would not be so good as it is basically muay thai, wrestling and bjj. Also both guys are trained in a mma fight so that makes it even more difficult for them. I'm sure I could bite my way out of someones guard. I require the vital areas to be targeted as I am not a big guy. I know that a few strikes to the right areas would end a fight straight away. Sorry if this is a little disjointed.

Cheers
Sam:asian:

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

I'm sure I could bite my way out of someones guard.

Recently there was a MMA get together where I live where they were testing how it fared under various self-defence types of drills. During it, the point of biting was naturally enough raised, so it was tested to see how it affected things.
While grappling with his opponent, one guy attempted to bite in order to aid his escape. Since grappling is all about positioning, the grappler just moved into the superior position, put the guy in a position where he couldn't bite, and choked him out.

This is not to say a bite wouldn't be of aid. But the fact is, you can't deal with a grappler, without being able to grapple yourself.

 

[kidswarrior]

you can't deal with a grappler, without being able to grapple yourself.

Even if I knocked him out first?

 

[Rook]

Even if I knocked him out first?

Easier said than done.

 

[tradrockrat]

Easier said than done.

Sure is.

But it IS doable. I've seen it more than once in MMA competitions and on the street.

As for biting - if you don't train to bite as hard as you train to punch, just how effective do you think it will be? But if you do train entries into bites on sensitive places you might reconsider just dismissing it as ineffective against the almighty grappler.

But to bow to the inevitable - biting involves grappling - you must have skills in that "in close and personal" range of grappling / contact.

 

[KempoGuy06]

With a couple year of experience under my belt I believe that I could go against an MMA guy with the same number of years in. Its about adaptation, if I have to go on MMA rules I would just adapt to the fight. I say this only because I study SKK and BJJ so I feel comfortable with both and in a couple of years I will be really comfortable with it.

B

 

[still learning]

Hello, MMa guys have rules...NO eye attacks, No throat strikes, and No elbow or knee breaks, No groin hits.

On the streets....Anything goes...and if you do not use things around you for weapons....to fight back with....you will be the loser...because the other guy/guys may use it against you.

You may care of killing the other people..but the people attacking you may want to KILL YOU!

On the streets...you will need to train your mind for ANYTHING GOES of fighting back.....NOT an easy thing to learn...do..or achieve!

The Killer instinct...........or getting MAD .........Aloha

PS: Sign Mr Nice Guy ...or the Mad Hawaiian

 

[Tez3]

I think we are beating a dead horse here and I predict that this thread will end up being a heated debate going around in endless circles ending no where but causing a lot of grief.

We have all had this debate before people. Lets not get our knickers in a twist and start another one.

I think you're right! MMA is a martial art like any other to single it out or any other for that matter is going to lead to a my art is better than your art argument!
I have seen full contact (have competed in them too) karate comps that have been every bit as full on as MMA which I also do so why people keep picking out MMA I really don't know, self defence is self defence, MMA is MMA. it's not the rules that stop certain techniques being used in MMA as much as you fight accordingly to the tactics you have worked out beforehand according to the strengths and weaknesses of your opponent. MMA is physical chess, having to defend yourself on the street is a whole different affair. You don't get to know who your opponent is, you don't get to plan tactics for sure!!

 

[Andrew Green]

Hello, MMa guys have rules...NO eye attacks, No throat strikes, and No elbow or knee breaks, No groin hits.

Yes, MMA has rules. So does every other style in existance. MMA just happens to have less then the majority of other styles. But if you can name a system that trains with no rules, including when they spar, let me know. I won't participate, but I will watch.

Of course like every other style MMA trained people are not limited to things in there rules when they are not in competition. A MMA trained person is just as capable of picking up a stick and wacking someone with it as a TKD fighter is capable of throwing a punch to the face. Heck, some of us that do MMA style training even train with sticks once and a while.

The MMA has rules is a serious straw man argument...

 

[Tez3]

Yes, MMA has rules. So does every other style in existance. MMA just happens to have less then the majority of other styles. But if you can name a system that trains with no rules, including when they spar, let me know. I won't participate, but I will watch.

Of course like every other style MMA trained people are not limited to things in there rules when they are not in competition. A MMA trained person is just as capable of picking up a stick and wacking someone with it as a TKD fighter is capable of throwing a punch to the face. Heck, some of us that do MMA style training even train with sticks once and a while.

The MMA has rules is a serious straw man argument...

Well said!!
I train with sticks too now and again, love the Bo and Jo, won't touch the tri staff though! my instructor will take two sticks ...... and goodnight lol!
Now the wearing of rings when out is always a good idea! Big chunky ones and a friend who will take them off you before the police ask questions!

 

[still learning]

Hello, It is not the style or art or BJJ or MMA..that is important. What is important is what you have learn and able to apply if in a situtions where one needs to fight back.

To learn to fight back with the adrenline fear factor,facing the unkowns (attacker)...maybe out size and out number? ....can you defend yourself..with the skills you have?

When a cat is corner? ever try to catch a cat? .....No matter how big you are....the cat will fight back and try to escape!!!!!

Become the CAT...anytime...you are in a heap of trouble...become the CAT! .......Aloha

PS: My dog barks and charge the cats that are loose in the area arounds us...he is yet to get close enough to corner one...when he does...he will learn....about CAT FIGHTing..............Aloha (meow)

 

[kidswarrior]

Hello, It is not the style or art or BJJ or MMA..that is important. What is important is what you have learn and able to apply if in a situtions where one needs to fight back.

To learn to fight back with the adrenline fear factor,facing the unkowns (attacker)...maybe out size and out number? ....can you defend yourself..with the skills you have?

When a cat is corner? ever try to catch a cat? .....No matter how big you are....the cat will fight back and try to escape!!!!!

Become the CAT...anytime...you are in a heap of trouble...become the CAT! .......Aloha

PS: My dog barks and charge the cats that are loose in the area arounds us...he is yet to get close enough to corner one...when he does...he will learn....about CAT FIGHTing..............Aloha (meow)

Excellent point! the intangible is the will to survive, to get out alive, and get back to hearth and home. That's always present in every situation on the street, maybe not so much in any kind of sport--even a brutal and effective one.

 

[kidswarrior]

MMA is physical chess, having to defend yourself on the street is a whole different affair. You don't get to know who your opponent is, you don't get to plan tactics for sure!!

To me, this is the jist. Not a question of style vs. style, but of circumstance vs. circumstance.

Peace to all MMA fighters and enthusiasts. I respect you and your art. But the matches are preplanned, presold, and so not spontaneous combustion as is 'street.' To me, the difference is venue, not effectiveness.