Fascia

[vic]

Using the fascia under the skin to move or manipulate people seems to be the latest "chi power" feat. No real martial applications unless one is very highly skilled. Anyone have experience with this?

 

[isshinryuronin]

This guy may have studied with George Dillman - hocus pocus.

Chin-na does have the technique of "raking" the forearm while applying a technique as do some schools of karate which may be termed "cutting" the forearm in the process of blocking. Both may injure the fascia as well as the muscle, at the very least causing additional pain.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I'd love to experience this, but from the explanation, it seems like nonsense to me. However, I cannot judge without more data.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Russell has no root and is using upper body strength which means tense muscles, which makes this easier... basically Russell is compliant... not magic, not Qi force, just training.

My shifu could do something very similar, but he could do this when you were much more relaxed. Basically he knew where your center was and used that to his advantage, But then he'd been doing taiji and only taiji for over 40 years back then.

Yang Jwing Ming could do this as well, that is if he didn't drop you with a pressure point or qinna first

 

[O'Malley]

It's obviously a demo but yeah the principle is a real thing. However, that video is not about manipulating/moving people but rather about receiving force and sending it to the ground, then expand along the joints to push without committing your weight towards them.

On of the skills of internal arts is to stretch and extend your connective tissue in order to create tension (not contraction!!!) uniformly under your skin (like a human-shaped balloon suit). Your connective tissue has elastic properties and links all body parts together. As a consequence, when the partner pushes on him (say with a force of 5), the demonstrator's body "gives" uniformly and the force compresses him along the joints, until the point where the push and his body's elastic resistance to deformation neutralise each other (the elastic resistance increases up to 5 where the balloon stops "giving"). At that point, the demonstrator opens his joints (through the use of extensor muscles along his legs, torso and arms), which "adds" a small amount of force to the resistance (6), which pushes the partner back.

It's interesting to note two things:

1) the demonstrator is not pushing back against the partner's push (the hardest part because it goes against one's natural instinct). He welcomed the push and his body makes micro-adjustments to accommodate it. This is useful in a martial arts context because any greater worth his salt will happily take advantage of your "pushing back" against the force;

2) when two opposing linear forces are clashing (push Vs push/ pull Vs pull), changing the angle even slightly gives you a great advantage and the amount of force required to displace the other guy is really tiny. You can see the demonstrator change the angle when pushing back later in the video, which exacerbates the effect.

Here's an aikido perspective on the concept:

In a grappling context, it's much less obvious than the demo, it's more that the other guy tries to pull/push on you to break your structure and your body resists the deformation. Since the other guy is committing his weight/contracting his muscles/exerting himself, you can take advantage of that.

 

[windwalker099]

Using the fascia under the skin to move or manipulate people seems to be the latest "chi power" feat. No real martial applications unless one is very highly skilled. Anyone have experience with this?

Much of my work is based on this.

As to "real" martial applications

It kinda depends on whether one's work involves developing, testing, and applying the theory through practical applications, as to whether it can be used "martially" or not.


Don't quite understand what the clip posted was attempting show in the demo...


Regarding "fascia"

some may find this interesting reading.
Studies conducted in Taiwan by a local taiji group

The link will be in "Chinese" use google translate to read it..

https://shenlong-taiwan.org/2022/08/02/續論筋膜功能及筋膜運動學/

Fascia refers to the vast connective tissue of the human body.

Whether it is soft fat or dense tendon, in the current broad definition, it can be regarded as fascia. But if you look at the functionality from a sports perspective, the function of myofascia (myofascia) is mainly the main function.

The term myofascia includes muscle tissue (myo-) and fascia (fascia), and refers to the fascia that connects muscles. The production and control of movements, in addition to the contraction and stretching of muscles, require fascia to coordinate the balance between muscles and bones.

They cooperate with each other and are inseparable. Robert Schleip, a German myofascial research expert and the author of "Fascial Kinesiology," divides the functions of myofascia into four types: shaping, supply, action, and transmission. Shaping: covering, filling, protecting, supporting and allowing muscles to maintain their shape Supply: metabolism, supplying nutrients to organs Movement: transmitting muscle power, assisting in stretching and resisting resistance Communication: the largest sensory organ in the human body, responsible for external stimulation reception and transmission

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

No real martial applications unless one is very highly skilled.

Assume one has reached to the high level, what does this kind of "pushing" skill/ability can enhance his combat ability?