Eye gouging thread

[Mz1]

Ok. You do that then.

Thanks, I certainly need advice from you.

 

[jks9199]

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Get it? Good. Getting the impression I'm pissed off? You're right. This juvenile crap is taking too much time and energy.

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

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jks9199
MT Asst. Administrator

 

[elder999]

You just discovered that Boxers do get KO'ed and that slipping is not 100% effective at all times?

Well, it's as I said then, yes? If slipping isn't effective 100% of the time, then boxers will get poked in the eye, especially by someone who has trained to do so.

No thanks, I'll just stick to kneeing and elbowing my opponents in the face,

How about if your opponent is in a phone booth? What if you're carjacked? What if attacked while sitting down somewhere else? Knees and elbows are all fine and dandy, if the situation is appropriate.....

which I'm already good at and have done it in real fights in the cage and in the street.

Yes, you've made it clear that you think as much. To my mind, though, I'd been in a lot of fights, but I hadn't been in a "real fight in the street" until I had my eyelid glued shut with an opponent's arterial blood, so maybe our opinions on that differ....

I said, Pro fighter vs. Play-fighter.

Lots of servicemen have been trained in the arming and deployment of nuclear weapons, and served confident in their ability to do so, but never did....likewise, I know of no other way to learn the proper use of a knife or other edged weapon-one cannot actually stab an opponent, no matter how much reality or "liveness" one brings to the table, but one can learn to precisely and decisively employ such weapons to great efficacy, without contact.

Policemen and other combat shooters learn to use their weapon without actually shooting anyone, though great strides have been made in simulating the stress and reactions of actual gun-combat.

I think what you call "play fighting," others might properly call "training," and/or "rehearsal." As I said in another thread, when I stabbed that kid with my pen, I'd been rehearsing for a long time-practicing the techniques and scenarios, but I'd never actually stabbed anyone until then-don't know if it would have been as effective without all that "play fighting" I did.

I'm just playing too 'bro. Can I call you 'bro btw? Reason I asked is b/c someone went all psycho on here when I called them homey.

You know, the Creator and my parents blessed me with one brother, and, while I don't talk about him much, if he weren't my brother, I'd want him for a friend-he can call me "bro."

Likewise, there are those I've trained with,spilled blood with, Sundanced and eaten peyote with-some of them I don't really like or trust very much, but we share bonds that warrant calling each other "brother."

There are even those here on Martial Talk, whom I've never met in real life, but enjoyed their posts, and gotten some sense of who they are-a lot of them, I'd be proud to have call me "bro."

You, on the other hand?

I don't say this very often,and I've mostly put that part of my life far behind me, but: you can call me "doctor". :lfao:

 

[Tez3]

For the record I didn't go 'psycho' when you called me 'homey. While it's an American word, over here it has very different connotations, call someone here that and it will earn you a smack in the mouth. It's only used within a drug/gang criminal culture, not outside it. It's rarely used in a friendly way.

The word 'homey' as used in English has a differenet meaning and not one you'd use of a person unless again you wanted to be unfriendly."This sense of the word is defined in the OED as “unsophisticated, simple; plain, unadorned, not fine; everyday, commonplace; unpolished, rough, rude” as well as that which “belongs to home or is produced or practised at home (esp. a humble home).”The dictionary adds that this meaning of the word is “sometimes approbative, as connoting the absence of artificial embellishment; but often apologetic, depreciative, or even as a euphemism for wanting refinement, polish, or grace.”

So either way it doesn't come across as friendly or pleasant. And we don't use the word 'bro' either lol.

 

[Touch Of Death]

For the record I didn't go 'psycho' when you called me 'homey. While it's an American word, over here it has very different connotations, call someone here that and it will earn you a smack in the mouth. It's only used within a drug/gang criminal culture, not outside it. It's rarely used in a friendly way.

The word 'homey' as used in English has a differenet meaning and not one you'd use of a person unless again you wanted to be unfriendly."This sense of the word is defined in the OED as “unsophisticated, simple; plain, unadorned, not fine; everyday, commonplace; unpolished, rough, rude” as well as that which “belongs to home or is produced or practised at home (esp. a humble home).”The dictionary adds that this meaning of the word is “sometimes approbative, as connoting the absence of artificial embellishment; but often apologetic, depreciative, or even as a euphemism for wanting refinement, polish, or grace.”

So either way it doesn't come across as friendly or pleasant. And we don't use the word 'bro' either lol.

...So, what did the unrefined person say when a tornado blew a trailer park on top of him?

"Get Off Me, Homes!"

 

[Mz1]

Well, it's as I said then, yes? If slipping isn't effective 100% of the time, then boxers will get poked in the eye, especially by someone who has trained to do so.

You seem to think that I somehow said that eye poking and other anti-rape techniques never works.

How about if your opponent is in a phone booth? What if you're carjacked? What if attacked while sitting down somewhere else? Knees and elbows are all fine and dandy, if the situation is appropriate.....

If you boxed before you'd know that there's a drill called the "phone booth" drill where we spar shoulder to shoulder. And in MT, we fight in such close quarters with the clinch. Ever heard of up elbows, down elbows, curved knees...pretty much most knees and elbows would work. Then there are short punches.

And for sitting down....why? Were you attacked while on the toilet before or something? I never said eye poking, biting, etc... never works, just that it's silly for me to pay someone real money to teach and train me how to do such. My little niece can teach me how to do this for free.

Yes, you've made it clear that you think as much. To my mind, though, I'd been in a lot of fights, but I hadn't been in a "real fight in the street" until I had my eyelid glued shut with an opponent's arterial blood, so maybe our opinions on that differ....

Real fights in the streets are much easier than fights in the ring or cage. Here's a hint, most slobs on the streets can't fight. I can see their haymakers coming a mile away. And it's not always a fight to the death like in the movies or what SD DVD's tells you. Most of the time, it's just punching some loudmouth in the face really hard to get them to STFU.

Lots of servicemen have been trained in the arming and deployment of nuclear weapons, and served confident in their ability to do so, but never did....

This is a weak analogy. Obviously the deployment of an actual nuclear weapon is an enormous ordeal where a massive explosion takes place, costing tens millions of dollars.....but it's merely about logistics, pushing buttons and obey commands. While trained fighters, punches each other out for KO's regularly, and it's just another ordinary day of training.

likewise, I know of no other way to learn the proper use of a knife or other edged weapon-one cannot actually stab an opponent, no matter how much reality or "liveness" one brings to the table, but one can learn to precisely and decisively employ such weapons to great efficacy, without contact.

Obviously because an edged weapon causes much greater damage than human limbs, even at the slightest touch. Tippie tappie contact with a knife can kill while tippie tappie sparring w/o ever going hard for KO's won't prepare most people for real fights b/c they're not experience what it's like to get punched in the face hard, repeatedly.

Policemen and other combat shooters learn to use their weapon without actually shooting anyone, though great strides have been made in simulating the stress and reactions of actual gun-combat.

Which probably explains why this young cop paid for his inexperience with his life vs. a battle hardened Vietnam Vet who was at least 60 years old.

Obviously cops nor soldiers can use live ammo to shoot each other during training. But fighters certainly can go all out with punches and kicks to become better. It's easy to spot the lifelong Martial Artist who only tippie tap spar and never really fought before....they usually start turning their head away or flinching like crazy when multiple shots are being thrown at them with 50-60% power....then I get warned by the supervisor to lower the power.

I think what you call "play fighting," others might properly call "training," and/or "rehearsal."

We have this too, it's called constructive sparring. But afterward, we spar for real.

As I said in another thread, when I stabbed that kid with my pen, I'd been rehearsing for a long time-practicing the techniques and scenarios, but I'd never actually stabbed anyone until then-don't know if it would have been as effective without all that "play fighting" I did.

Again, a piercing or edge weapon causes much more damage even at medium power or even at the slightest touch. Just like pulling the shotgun trigger at close range, not much training is needed. But throwing a punch hard and accurate enough to hurt someone, requires much more training. And that's only part of it, as the other half is about being able to take hits. Chances are, you will get hit.

You know, the Creator and my parents blessed me with one brother, and, while I don't talk about him much, if he weren't my brother, I'd want him for a friend-he can call me "bro."

Likewise, there are those I've trained with,spilled blood with, Sundanced and eaten peyote with-some of them I don't really like or trust very much, but we share bonds that warrant calling each other "brother."

There are even those here on Martial Talk, whom I've never met in real life, but enjoyed their posts, and gotten some sense of who they are-a lot of them, I'd be proud to have call me "bro."

You, on the other hand?

I don't say this very often,and I've mostly put that part of my life far behind me, but: you can call me "doctor".

How about "friendo"? Can I call you friendo, friendo?

 

[Mz1]

For the record I didn't go 'psycho' when you called me 'homey. While it's an American word, over here it has very different connotations, call someone here that and it will earn you a smack in the mouth. It's only used within a drug/gang criminal culture, not outside it. It's rarely used in a friendly way.

The word 'homey' as used in English has a differenet meaning and not one you'd use of a person unless again you wanted to be unfriendly."This sense of the word is defined in the OED as “unsophisticated, simple; plain, unadorned, not fine; everyday, commonplace; unpolished, rough, rude” as well as that which “belongs to home or is produced or practised at home (esp. a humble home).”The dictionary adds that this meaning of the word is “sometimes approbative, as connoting the absence of artificial embellishment; but often apologetic, depreciative, or even as a euphemism for wanting refinement, polish, or grace.”

So either way it doesn't come across as friendly or pleasant. And we don't use the word 'bro' either lol.

How about "darby"? What does this mean? Someone keeps calling me this, haha.

 

[Tez3]

You seem to think that I somehow said that eye poking and other anti-rape techniques never works.



If you boxed before you'd know that there's a drill called the "phone booth" drill where we spar shoulder to shoulder. And in MT, we fight in such close quarters with the clinch. Ever heard of up elbows, down elbows, curved knees...pretty much most knees and elbows would work. Then there are short punches.

And I never said eye poking, biting, etc... never works, just that it's silly for me to pay someone real money to teach and train me how to do such.



Real fights in the streets are much easier than fights in the ring or cage. Here's a hint, it's not always a fight to the death like in the movies or what SD DVD's tells you. Most of the time, it's just punching someone in the face really hard to get them to STFU.



This is a weak analogy. Obviously the deployment of an actual nuclear weapon is an enormous ordeal where a massive explosion takes place, costing tens millions of dollars.....but it's merely about logistics, pushing buttons and obey commands. While trained fighters, punches each other out for KO's regularly, and it's just another ordinary day of training.



Obviously because an edged weapon causes much greater damage than human limbs, even at the slightest touch. Tippie tappie contact with a knife can kill while tippie tappie sparring w/o ever going hard for KO's won't prepare most people for real fights b/c they're not experience what it's like to get punched in the face hard, repeatedly.



Which probably explains why this young cop paid for his inexperience with his life vs. a battle hardened Vietnam Vet who was at least 60 years old.

Obviously cops nor soldiers can use live ammo to shoot each other during training. But fighters certainly can go all out with punches and kicks to become better. It's easy to spot the lifelong Martial Artist who only tippie tap spar and never really fought before....they usually start turning their head away or flinching like crazy when multiple shots are being thrown at them with 50-60% power....then I get warned by the supervisor to lower the power.



We have this too, it's called constructive sparring. But afterward, we spar for real.



Again, a piercing or edge weapon causes much more damage even at medium power or even at the slightest touch. Just like pulling the shotgun trigger at close range, not much training is needed. But throwing a punch hard and accurate enough to hurt someone, requires much more training. And that's only part of it, as the other half is about being able to take hits. Chances are, you will get hit.



How about "friendo"? Can I call you friendo, friendo?

I assume you mean, by using 'nor', that soldiers and police don't use live ammo? If so you're wrong, the military do live firing exercises where live ammo is used. We actually have here a 'Live Fire Group' of SNCOs who supervise very carefully these exercises. Here the SAS and the Royal Marines use live ammo regularly on their exercises some of which are close quarters. They even do it with live blades, gasp, shock, horror.......

 

[Touch Of Death]

You do not need to train how to poke someone in the eye, but you should train on when you should do it and why.

I disagree. Most normal people are not mentally prepared for seeing the blood and goo that can be the result of an eye gouge. I would recommend against believing it will save you. I don't have the skill set, but a black belt in our system instantly challenges those who proclaim their eye gouging will save them from being submitted to a BJJ match, and they get to gouge all they want. He always wins, because he knows eye gouging is a fantasy. In our system, we are taught to gouge or flick the eyes right off the bat, as a timing mechanism, but never as a get out fight free card.

 

[Mz1]

I assume you mean, by using 'nor', that soldiers and police don't use live ammo? If so you're wrong, the military do live firing exercises where live ammo is used. We actually have here a 'Live Fire Group' of SNCOs who supervise very carefully these exercises. Here the SAS and the Royal Marines use live ammo regularly on their exercises some of which are close quarters. They even do it with live blades, gasp, shock, horror.......

Dude, you even highlighted what I wrote in red, LOL. Read it again.

"Obviously cops nor soldiers can use live ammo to shoot each other during training." -MZ1

 

[Touch Of Death]

Dude, you even highlighted what I wrote in red, LOL. Read it again.

"Obviously cops nor soldiers can use live ammo to shoot each other during training." -MZ1

Tez is no dude.

 

[seasoned]

Tez is no dude.

Yeah, get with the program. When in doubt, check profile.........................

 

[Tez3]

Dude, you even highlighted what I wrote in red, LOL. Read it again.

"Obviously cops nor soldiers can use live ammo to shoot each other during training." -MZ1

Then you write very bad English, 'nor' is paired with 'neither' which means that 'neither the police nor the cops....',

"Nor means neither that or another one. (conjunction) An example of nor is, "She didn't want ice cream or cake"
http://www.yourdictionary.com/nor

 

[elder999]

You seem to think that I somehow said that eye poking and other anti-rape techniques never works.

Now we've gotten somewhere. If you concede that it works, then you have to recognize that some sort of training to utilize it is required to properly utilize it for maximum efficacy.

If you boxed before you'd know that there's a drill called the "phone booth" drill where we spar shoulder to shoulder. And in MT, we fight in such close quarters with the clinch

I've boxed before-likely, (again, I mean no insult) before you were born:

I’m 45 years old. I grew up in New York. My father was a boxing and judo coach in college and the Navy, and was my first martial arts instructor-he also had background in some form of karate from Hawaii, though it’s never been 100% certain which form it was. My formal training began in tae kwon do at age 11, and while I earned dan ranking, I no longer practice tae kwon do. I also earned dan grades in judo, kyokushin karate and Miyama ryu jujutsu.Along the way, I’ve tried a few other martial arts-sometimes for years at a time, wrestled in school, got my head handed to me boxing Golden Gloves, and very many of my instructors were law enforcement, corrections officers and/or military personnel with real world experience. When I was in my teens and early twenties I took Charles Nelson’s 15 lesson course as a yearly “reality check,” and I also spent a little more than a year in Japan, training and trying to earn a living as a musician, of all things.That was 25 years ago, though, and, after 34 years in martial arts I still consider myself very much a student of self-defense, just as I do about cooking, music, and, well, everything…though I have been fortunate (or unfortunate) enough to have had to defend myself and get away intact, and I do teach a small number of jujutsu students…..

I'm familiar enough with the drill to know that what it's really about is being able to fight one's way out of a bad situation, after all, where you've become limited to

Ever heard of up elbows, down elbows, curved knees...pretty much most knees and elbows would work. Then there are short punches.

It's likely, in such contests, that your opponent has not-you're trapped in a corner, and need to get out.

's silly for me to pay someone real money to teach and train me how to do such.

Okay then,

For the record, I've nothing against "MMA." I've been doing it since long before there was "MMA": shootboxing in Japan, and other kakutogi, and just playing, sparring and experimenting with friends.....lots of people have-the Brazilians had vale tudo for years, and here in the States we had all kinds of things-its just that it's become a somewhat more organized "sport" now, with contests. I used to travel quite a bit for work-still kind of do-and most places, I get the best workout and best welcome from MMA gyms, because the mat doesn't lie. If there's a judo dojo, I'll usually check that out, and if I know someone, I'll go there, but the best bet for the last 15 years or so has always been an MMA club or gym-assuming that they have a properly organized program and certified instructors to regulate the action.

Heck, right now I work for PNM in New Mexico, and get to go to the San Juan power plant in Farmington quite a bit-when I'm there, I workout here.

Needless to say, though, I disagree with almost all of the rest of your post, which was absurdly misinformed, really-training is needed for firearms like a shotgun to be used defensively, as well as knives, and street fights offer different stresses than contests.

Of course, I bow to your vastly superior experience in "punching some loudmouth in the face to get them to STFU." :lfao: :lfao: :lfao: :lfao:

 

[Tez3]

Yeah, get with the program. When in doubt, check profile.........................

Really? That says I'm a bloke?

 

[Mz1]

Then you write very bad English, 'nor' is paired with 'neither' which means that 'neither the police nor the cops....',

"Nor means neither that or another one. (conjunction) An example of nor is, "She didn't want ice cream or cake"
http://www.yourdictionary.com/nor

LOL, now you're just trying extra hard now. You even admit in writing that I meant "neither the police nor the cops". But my argument that they don't "use live ammo to shoot each other" during training has no other meaning. What next? I have to spellcheck too counselor?

Obviously cops nor soldiers can use live ammo to shoot each other during training." -MZ1

 

[Dirty Dog]

Really? That says I'm a bloke?

I think we're going to need pictures. Preferably embarassing ones...

 

[seasoned]

I think we're going to need pictures. Preferably embarrassing ones...

Picture ID will work if nothing else................

 

[MJS]

My money's on them vs. a Pretend-Fighter.

Well, to be honest, given some of the schools out there, my money would be on the boxer as well. However, I wouldn't always put all my money on a boxer, as there're alot of quality schools out there, that do make a more well rounded fighter, than a boxer.

 

[MJS]

Humans are not pure carnivore such as a lion/tiger etc. Our teeth are not designed to just bite and tear flesh. If you just open up and clamp your mouth on something, you may cause pain but you are not going to get much panic reaction from it. The purpose of biting is to cause panic in the other person and their instinct is to just get away. The time I was bitten in a fight, the person didn't know what they were doing and just clamped on and down, and it didn't even break the skin. Just an annoyance and made me want to hurt them more.

Exactly! I'd say this applies to anything that we do really. I mean, anyone can swing away, throwing half *** punches, but someone who really knows what they're doing...well, IMO, those people, just like the ones who know the proper areas to bite, will be much more effective.