"Every cop should learn BJj" Do you agree?

[drop bear]

That really, honestly, sounds like something from a Monty Python skit.

 

[drop bear]

Very interesting I didn't know that. As I was watching the video, I was wondering why the guy didn't try to take him down and subdue him.

In a case like that though, a good submission hold would be beneficial, no?

When the guys backing you up are looking for a place to hide. You wait for more guys.

 

[ballen0351]

I remember my first fight. It went pretty much the same way.

Your first fight was with 4 cops?

You are saying they hit him with a bat to not escalate the situation.

They didn't hit him with a bat. And I clearly stated they targeted what we call green areas on the body when they could have escalated the force since the strikes were not working but for some reason didn't they continued to hit the same areas.

So seriously let me get this straight. While they were waiting for back up. They just hit the guy every now and then.

Looks that way doesn't it.

Why not just wait?

Don't know go ask them. They still have a duty to attempt. They can't just stand there looking at each other especially as more and more people are showing up to watch and are starting to try and get involved.

And do you know what a pin in as supposed to a submission?

Sure and I'm saying a guy that size who is under the influence isn't as easy as you think.

 

[drop bear]

Your first fight was with 4 cops?

They didn't hit him with a bat. And I clearly stated they targeted what we call green areas on the body when they could have escalated the force since the strikes were not working but for some reason didn't they continued to hit the same areas.

Looks that way doesn't it.

Don't know go ask them. They still have a duty to attempt. They can't just stand there looking at each other especially as more and more people are showing up to watch and are starting to try and get involved.

Sure and I'm saying a guy that size who is under the influence isn't as easy as you think.

Wow.......... Just........wow.

Ok. So the method that actually worked was dropping the guy on the deck and sitting on him.

How about getting good at doing that?

 

[ballen0351]

Wow.......... Just........wow.

Ok. So the method that actually worked was dropping the guy on the deck and sitting on him.

How about getting good at doing that?

UMMM they did. In fact, I clearly stated that is the preferred method of dealing with these guys later on in the thread....

 

[drop bear]

UMMM they did. In fact, I clearly stated that is the preferred method of dealing with these guys later on in the thread....

So then why defend the rubbish method of green areas?

Get really good at takedowns and pins.

Hmmmmmm. I wonder where I could get really good at that?

This homeless guy with no police training gets it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Also the more cops the harder it becomes to deal with because it never fails Ill pull left my partner will pull right another guy pulls down the 4th guy pulls up. The 5th cop runs up and grabs a leg thinking its the suspect but its actually cop #3.

I remember one of my instructors talking about this. He served on a fugitive retrieval task force, and he'd often be the first in to take the guy down. Then other officers would join in, and part of the time, in all the confusion, they'd end up undoing whatever lock he'd managed.

 

[ballen0351]

So then why defend the rubbish method of green areas?

Because it works. NOTHING is 100% but I can tell you from experience a sold baton strike to the leg can make people decide to stop fighting. No so much that it hurts but just the mental aspect of "Damn that cop hit me with a baton he's going to really hurt me" However that doesnt work on someone thats mentally incapacitated like the guy in the video.

Get really good at takedowns and pins.

They did once they got enough people. He was taken down and cuffed and not seriously injured. That's a win. Who cares what it looks like to the untrained guy sitting safely on his couch telling them everything they "should" have done.

Hmmmmmm. I wonder where I could get really good at that?[/quote]
HMMMM we teach it in our DT Curriculum. Your classes wouldn't help much more than that with only the same 2 weeks of training

This homeless guy with no police training gets it.

I'm not really sure what a few random out of context videos are supposed to prove? What training and experience did the homeless guy have? Nothing in the vidoe shows the homeless guy pinning anyone. For every video, you find of an officer looking silly I can find one of the officer kicking some dudes behind. Both would be irrelevant to the discussion.


If you want me to analyze every stupid video you find well I cant. I wasn't there I don't know what they know. I'll just say when you in those types of situations sometimes your brain doesn't make rational choices. Like continuing to strike someone in the leg when its clearly not working. It's easy to sit here at my computer and say "well that's stupid he should do _____" BUT having been in those situations I can say I've done stupid things too because it takes a little while for your brain to catch up. Its the nature of the beast. Would more training help sure it would but as we already said most cops won't train any extra.

 

[drop bear]

I'm not really sure what a few random out of context videos are supposed to prove? For every video you find of an officer looking silly I can find one of the officer kicking some dudes behind. Both would be irrelevant to the discussion.

That's right because we don't go off actual videos we can see. And judge by real incidents.

We have to go off your say so.

I wonder why nobody can show what DT. actually looks like?

I wonder why DT instructors dont have a compilation of their methods working?

Hmmmmmmmmm.......

 

[drop bear]

If you want me to analyze every stupid video you find well I cant. I wasn't there I don't know what they know. I'll just say when you in those types of situations sometimes your brain doesn't make rational choices. Like continuing to strike someone in the leg when its clearly not working. It's easy to sit here at my computer and say "well that's stupid he should do _____" BUT having been in those situations I can say I've done stupid things too because it takes a little while for your brain to catch up. Its the nature of the beast. Would more training help sure it would but as we already said most cops won't train any extra.

Yet.

 

[ballen0351]

That's right because we don't go off actual videos we can see. And judge by real incidents.

We have to go off your say so.

Nope, we can Look at the actual statistic. Actual arrest numbers. The info is out there the D.O.J, the F.B.I the I.A.C.P. all post use of force stats. Go look them up.

I wonder why nobody can show what DT. actually looks like?

I wonder why DT instructors dont have a compilation of their methods working?[/quote]
We do go watch LivePD or COPS or like I said walk down to the PD and tell them they couldn't arrest you.

Hmmmmmmmmm.......

Who is he? Where does he work? What training does he have? He is selling a video system he invented and doesn't even have a website that I could see listing his training or experience. On his Amazon page he's listed as an "actor" so do we even know if he's a cop?

 

[drop bear]

Don't know go ask them. They still have a duty to attempt. They can't just stand there looking

Wait what?

Anyway.

Let's look at more untrained non police officers basically getting the process.
https://thewest.com.au/news/perth/c...fficer-make-canning-vale-arrest-ng-b88875217z

 

[ballen0351]

Yet.

AND? What training did the LVPD have? Im not sure what your point is? I don't think I have ever said more training is bad. The point is you won't get a VAST majority of cops to do extra training

On a side note, I for one am SHOCKED someone (The Gracies the kings of infomercials) trying to sell a program to people would do a video telling people how good their training is.

 

[ballen0351]

Wait what?

sorry, what didn't you understand? They are still trying to take the guy into custody and the guy is still charging at them you cant all 5 just stand around looking at each other because the bag guy isn't going to cooperate.

Let's look at more untrained non police officers basically getting the process.
https://thewest.com.au/news/perth/c...fficer-make-canning-vale-arrest-ng-b88875217z

again irrelevant

 

[drop bear]

AND? What training did the LVPD have? Im not sure what your point is? I don't think I have ever said more training is bad. The point is you won't get a VAST majority of cops to do extra training

On a side note, I for one am SHOCKED someone (The Gracies the kings of infomercials) trying to sell a program to people would do a video telling people how good their training is.

Imagine the billions of police we don't see using BJJ.

But yes I don't like their marketing that much. They do provide evidence.

 

[ballen0351]

Imagine the billions of police we don't see using BJJ.

I do believe my very 1st post said exactly that I wish more cops would train. Bjj would have pretty crappy results if only taught for 2 weeks.

But yes I don't like their marketing that much. They do provide evidence.

evidence in a controlled environment with rules and a script designed for their infomercial with retakes and editing.

 

[CB Jones]

Do we have to keep beating the dead horse.

Drop bear we will concede you are a greater fighter than all police officers....now can we move on.

 

[drop bear]

sorry, what didn't you understand? They are still trying to take the guy into custody and the guy is still charging at them you cant all 5 just stand around looking at each other because the bag guy isn't going to cooperate.


again irrelevant

Yes you can. If he is not an immediate threat or a flight risk. Stall.

You seriously have to hit a guy with a bat every 30sec or so to what. Appear active?

 

[ballen0351]

Yes you can. If he is not an immediate threat or a flight risk. Stall.

You seriously have to hit a guy with a bat every 30sec or so to what. Appear active?

Here let me post this again since you didnt read it the first time:

If you want me to analyze every stupid video you find well I cant. I wasn't there I don't know what they know. I'll just say when you in those types of situations sometimes your brain doesn't make rational choices. Like continuing to strike someone in the leg when its clearly not working. It's easy to sit here at my computer and say "well that's stupid he should do _____" BUT having been in those situations I can say I've done stupid things too because it takes a little while for your brain to catch up. Its the nature of the beast. Would more training help sure it would but as we already said most cops won't train any extra.

 

[drop bear]

Do we have to keep beating the dead horse.

Drop bear we will concede you are a greater fighter than all police officers....now can we move on.

I have seen the training do more harm than good. It is not about my ego here.

It is about making cops safe.