Escaping the clinch

[Danny T]

I had that issue when I first read the OP. I was confused, thinking, "Why the heck is Skribs asking about Wing Tsun??" Took me a bit to remember "WTF" is now "WT" - probably because of what you and I both think of first when we see "WTF".

I also had trouble understand that 'clinch' isn't clinch but something else. Getting close? Then I viewed some TKD Clinching videos and what did I see. Clinching. Not just getting up close but wrapping their arms around each other. Not that anything was done in the clinch but, it was a clinch.

So now I'm even more confused.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I also had trouble understand that 'clinch' isn't clinch but something else. Getting close? Then I viewed some TKD Clinching videos and what did I see. Clinching. Not just getting up close but wrapping their arms around each other. Not that anything was done in the clinch but, it was a clinch.

So now I'm even more confused.

That's what it is, despite what skribs said. They get close, lock arms, and the refs separate them.

 

[Danny T]

That's what it is, despite what skribs said. They get close, lock arms, and the refs separate them.

Thank you. I feel much better over my state of confusion.

 

[skribs]

I also had trouble understand that 'clinch' isn't clinch but something else. Getting close? Then I viewed some TKD Clinching videos and what did I see. Clinching. Not just getting up close but wrapping their arms around each other. Not that anything was done in the clinch but, it was a clinch.

So now I'm even more confused.

Can you post one of those videos? It might be that they are discussing defense against a clinch in a street fight. You're not allowed to grab in WT rules.

 

[Steve]

Because this was posted on the TKD forum, so I would hope that people would assume it was TKD-related.

Lol. Okay. I’m going to hop off the merry go round now.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Wednesday Thursday Friday?

Exactly. And now those odd TKD guys only spar two days of the week!

 

[Danny T]

Can you post one of those videos? It might be that they are discussing defense against a clinch in a street fight. You're not allowed to grab in WT rules.

Here is just 1 of several I looked at. I selected this one because it shows clinching early.
Check 15 seconds and again at 21 seconds. It is obvious they are clinching to prevent any attacks. There is immediate stoppage of any action by the referee.

 

[Jaeimseu]

I'm not entirely sure about the body hook. It might only be straight punches. Even if it's allowed, you're punching a well-padded target.

Learn to punch harder. The worst match I was ever in I got hit with punches in the clinch. The guy left knuckle marks through my hogu. Before that I never was concerned with someone punching me in that position. But that guy hurt me with it.


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[skribs]

Here is just 1 of several I looked at. I selected this one because it shows clinching early.
Check 15 seconds and again at 21 seconds. It is obvious they are clinching to prevent any attacks. There is immediate stoppage of any action by the referee.

The clinch done by Red at 0:15 is a legal clinch. The clinch done by Blue at 0:15 is a grab that is not allowed. If both of them clinched like Red (hands past the target, arms straight) the fight would have kept going.

If the clinch is illegal and then immediately stopped, I don't need to know how to escape it. If the clinch is legal (like Red's) then I'd need to know how to escape it.

So what Blue does is not the clinch, it is a violation of the rules. (As far as WT sparring is concerned, anyway).

 

[paitingman]

The clinch done by Red at 0:15 is a legal clinch. The clinch done by Blue at 0:15 is a grab that is not allowed. If both of them clinched like Red (hands past the target, arms straight) the fight would have kept going.

If the clinch is illegal and then immediately stopped, I don't need to know how to escape it. If the clinch is legal (like Red's) then I'd need to know how to escape it.

So what Blue does is not the clinch, it is a violation of the rules. (As far as WT sparring is concerned, anyway).

Without seeing the full match I can't say why the ref broke them or whether he issued a penalty, but what Blue did is pretty natural and common. You should train this way as well. Don't nitpick little rules like this in training and just deal with it and learn to handle whatever they may do.
When it's game time, follow the rules and let the ref work, but let's be real; center refs aren't all that consistent. You may get refs who aren't looking at anything but blatant grabbing and some who are all over the matter.

 

[Buka]

Skribs, just focus on your third and fourth point. Work the hell out of them with reckless abandon.

 

[Danny T]

The clinch done by Red at 0:15 is a legal clinch. The clinch done by Blue at 0:15 is a grab that is not allowed. If both of them clinched like Red (hands past the target, arms straight) the fight would have kept going.

If the clinch is illegal and then immediately stopped, I don't need to know how to escape it. If the clinch is legal (like Red's) then I'd need to know how to escape it.

So what Blue does is not the clinch, it is a violation of the rules. (As far as WT sparring is concerned, anyway).

Later in the video there are other clinching with grabbing and the fighting continues.

If clinching grabbing is illegal then why no warning or points taken? Is it illegal or that the match is simply restarted from a non clinch position?

 

[paitingman]

Later in the video there are other clinching with grabbing and the fighting continues.

If clinching grabbing is illegal then why no warning or points taken? Is it illegal or that the match is simply restarted from a non clinch position?

Depends on who the ref is.

It is against the rules and, if caught, a one point penalty is given (basically the other guy gets a point) and any points you may have scored while using the grip are waved off.

 

[drop bear]

If they are grabbing without grabbing. Can you underhook?

 

[skribs]

Without seeing the full match I can't say why the ref broke them or whether he issued a penalty, but what Blue did is pretty natural and common. You should train this way as well. Don't nitpick little rules like this in training and just deal with it and learn to handle whatever they may do.
When it's game time, follow the rules and let the ref work, but let's be real; center refs aren't all that consistent. You may get refs who aren't looking at anything but blatant grabbing and some who are all over the matter.

If you're training for the sport, the rules are not something to ignore.

 

[skribs]

If they are grabbing without grabbing. Can you underhook?

Without hooking, so kind of.

 

[drop bear]

Without hooking, so kind of.

Just thinking reef that underhook hard and tip them. Almost an upward judo chop.

They do it in life saving competition.

Even striking with the lead shoulder together a bit of space then hook them.

 

[dvcochran]

Here is just 1 of several I looked at. I selected this one because it shows clinching early.
Check 15 seconds and again at 21 seconds. It is obvious they are clinching to prevent any attacks. There is immediate stoppage of any action by the referee.

That is classic WT clinching. I am not sure what the OP is trying to get to. Because there are no takedowns or locks the best and most used tactic is to simply get closer. As seen in your video it is common to try to get you arms under your opponent and lift them up. Quickest way to get a break form the ref. Against the strict wording of the rules but you can get by with a little push and pull but have to be very, very subtle about it. So the short answer for @skribs is to get even closer, lock up and wait for the ref to break. Pushing with your body is the quickest way to get a warning.
Back in the 90's you could lock longer and work out of it. It was a great move if you had a really strong and very vertical front kick, like from 6" away. You could definitely catch some not expecting a kick from that close.

 

[Danny T]

That is classic WT clinching. I am not sure what the OP is trying to get to. Because there are no takedowns or locks the best and most used tactic is to simply get closer. As seen in your video it is common to try to get you arms under your opponent and lift them up. Quickest way to get a break form the ref. Against the strict wording of the rules but you can get by with a little push and pull but have to be very, very subtle about it. So the short answer for @skribs is to get even closer, lock up and wait for the ref to break. Pushing with your body is the quickest way to get a warning.
Back in the 90's you could lock longer and work out of it. It was a great move if you had a really strong and very vertical front kick, like from 6" away. You could definitely catch some not expecting a kick from that close.

Yeap...this is more to what I'm seeing and remembering from the short time I did TKD many years ago (70s).
Thank you.

 

[paitingman]

If you're training for the sport, the rules are not something to ignore.

When did I say ignore the rules? I'm saying don't nitpick with your training partners.
As I said, when in a match follow the rules.
But if your classmate gets a little grabby, don't call stop and lecture them on the rule.
Learn to handle people being clingy and perhaps breaking some rules.

Some refs will let your opponent get away with a lot.