Steve
Mostly Harmless
When I see WT, I think wing tsun. When I see WTF, I see... something not tkd related.
Escaping the clinch
- Thread starter skribs
- Start date
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
OP
OP
skribs
Grandmaster
I'm on the TKD forum.
OP
OP
skribs
Grandmaster
@drop bear I can try and glean something from those, but the fighting style is completely different. Typically in a Taekwondo clinch both fighters are basically pressed against each other, and if the other fighter wants to clinch they will try to glue to me.
Okay, so if I'm reading them right, I can move them by moving me (with my legs), and I can move me by pushing with my arms, but I can't move them by pushing with my arms. Is that right?
Some good description of how the mechanics of follow-through affect the exit. I really like that video - thanks, DB.
@skribs, this doesn't match exactly what you're talking about, but those mechanics can help. He talks about how to use a strike to start the movement out, and which angles work best. Those angles are probably not all the same for WT competition as for boxing, but the principles are. I think the idea of a strike (if they're as close as I'm imagining, then we're talking something like a hook or uppercut, probably) leading the movement might buy you both the momentum and quarter-beat you need to start an exit.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Makes sense. Just as an FYI, I hit the new post or active post button and just read threads. I often have no idea which subforum a thread is in. I can’t be the only one who reads the forum this way. Why are you getting so salty about this?
OP
OP
skribs
Grandmaster
Hook or uppercut would not be allowed. No punching to the face in WT sparring.
If anything, getting low is probably the worst idea, because it puts your head closer to their feet.
I had that issue when I first read the OP. I was confused, thinking, "Why the heck is Skribs asking about Wing Tsun??" Took me a bit to remember "WTF" is now "WT" - probably because of what you and I both think of first when we see "WTF".
Yeah, I sometimes scroll back up to see which forum I'm in when replying, because I nearly always come in off the recent threads.
How about a body hook? I doubt it scores anything, but it might serve the purpose for the exit. And yeah, you're probably not going to be dropping under an arm, but it doesn't sound like you'd need to, anyway. Keeping the kicks in mind, you'd also have to be wary of exiting right into kicking range.
OP
OP
skribs
Grandmaster
I'm not entirely sure about the body hook. It might only be straight punches. Even if it's allowed, you're punching a well-padded target.
Good point. See, I told you I was ill-equipped to answer this.
Okay, so assuming I sort of understand the rules at play, I have two thoughts of what I'd try if I was in that position. They might work, they might fail, or they might get me DQ'd (which, if you think about it, gets me out of that damned clinch).
First, I might try crowding more. If they want me close, maybe they'll enjoy it more if I'm closer. Of course, for some folks, this crowding will cause them to want some space and if they back off even a little, that's my chance to back out of the clinch.
The second option is more of a variation on the first. Crowd them again, but this time, using that linebacker approach you said was legal. Get them moving slightly back, and as soon as they resist, use their resistance to push myself away.
If either of those is new to you, give it a shot and let me know if I get you KO'd.
OP
OP
skribs
Grandmaster
Good point. See, I told you I was ill-equipped to answer this.
Okay, so assuming I sort of understand the rules at play, I have two thoughts of what I'd try if I was in that position. They might work, they might fail, or they might get me DQ'd (which, if you think about it, gets me out of that damned clinch).
First, I might try crowding more. If they want me close, maybe they'll enjoy it more if I'm closer. Of course, for some folks, this crowding will cause them to want some space and if they back off even a little, that's my chance to back out of the clinch.
The second option is more of a variation on the first. Crowd them again, but this time, using that linebacker approach you said was legal. Get them moving slightly back, and as soon as they resist, use their resistance to push myself away.
If either of those is new to you, give it a shot and let me know if I get you KO'd.
If they want to be in the clinch they will probably be pressing their chestguard against yours, which means you can't get closer. Or they'll have their hands up, which you can't get closer.
Typically the shorter person will be more ideal for the clinch, so if they are clinching against me, I'd want to get back to range against them.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
@skribs and @Dirty Dog , I am gebuinely confused how you could each disagree with a post where I describe what comes to my own mind. Are you suggesting I'm lying in my post above?
OP
OP
skribs
Grandmaster
Because this was posted on the TKD forum, so I would hope that people would assume it was TKD-related.
If they're pressing forward enough, a well-timed pivot might let you separate, at least get one side far enough away to maybe get in a kick if you're faster than me at kicking (perhaps too low a bar to set for this). It would probably need a small shift to one side to start the pivot, so the leg you're pivoting on isn't under direct pressure. The utility of this would be very situation-dependent.
As it turns out, I have a really hard time thinking of answers that don't involve a little grappling. I'm not surprised by that, since my "striking only" sparring tends to involve me cheating by getting in little bits of grappling. I just can't stop myself. In any case, thanks for letting me participate. Do I get a trophy?
I'm the same and you are not alone. All my threads were started in the "general MA talk" session. Sometime I even forgot that some people may only want "style only solution".
In another Judo forum, when there was a no-Gi training discussion, most Judo guys were not interested in it. My comment was always, "What if you have to use your Judo throw on sandy beach in the summer?"
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paitingman
Brown Belt
A few maneuvers could be:
1. high jump back, transitioning into cross arm guard from wherever your hands were in the clinch, with the lead knee raised to further guard.
(if refs call you for leg checking throw a flicky kick while still holding the knee very high as you jump back)
2. with hands on their hogu, deliver a sudden, shocking shove, but follow him immediately as he is shifted backward and maintain hand contact on his hogu, then angle off and retreat (and kick if you'd like) while he is still off balance
3. just wait. you can stay safe until the break by using arm pressure, body pressure, and footwork. Get good hand contact on them. Ideally, you getting as much of your forearm against their chest guard is best, but make sure not to reach past them. Try and position your arms in a way that you can deliver as much side-to-side elbow leverage as possible without getting called by the ref. You can feel them moving. And if they try to raise their leg to kick or jump and retreat, you can try and leverage them with either your right or left arm and disrupt their maneuver as you find a safer angle.
(be extra slick with this one or you'll rack up gamjeoms)
Keep training hard!
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Danny T
Senior Master
Wednesday Thursday Friday?
