EDC/Survival kit

[Kong Soo Do]

I wanted to start this thread off with a YT video someone did on Cody Lundin's recommended survival kit (from Cody's book, "98.6 Degrees The Art of Keeping Your *** Alive").

 

[jks9199]

I think this blog entry lists the same gear; I'm kind of sure I'm not the only one who doesn't have 13+ minutes to watch the video!

The list is:
1. Emergency Blanket
2. Water Disinfectant
3. Brightly colored tape
4. Lighter
5. Comb (optional)
6. Floss
7. Flashlight w/extra batteries
8. Matches/match safe (secondary fire source)
9. Knife
10. Water carrier

Other items:
1. Sweater
2. Large trashbag/barrel liner
3. Ziplock baggies
4. Signal mirror
5. Magnifying glass
6. Drinking tube/straw
7. Paracord

I can agree with a lot of this. I would put some actual line like the paracord or a fairly high test fishing line (if not both) higher up. Floss is useful and versatile -- but takes a whole lot to do much. Time spent making line in an survival situation is time not spent on something else...

 

[Carol]

I realize Cody is trying to stick with basic fundamentals without relying on gadgets and doodads, but I'm not sure I understand the "drinking tube/straw" description from his blog.

To a hiker, a "straw" is a plastic drinking straw that has a built-in water filter, such as this one from Aquamira:

http://www.amazon.com/Frontier-Emer...9294&sr=8-3-fkmr0&keywords=sawyer+water+straw

However, Cody seems to refer to this a basic tube. If your water is out of reach, how do you know it is safe to drink? He clearly gets the clean water idea by stressing the need for a water disinfectant so that just strikes me as a bit odd.

If it were me packing such a kit, I'd include some basic first aid essentials like Advil, Immodium, and hand sanitizer (yeah, I'm big in to sanitizer...LOL). Sanitizer helps with personal hygiene without diverting from your water supply, plus it is flammable and could easily serve as an emergency fire starter. These are lightweight, inexpensive, and don't take up much space, plus they are things that I would be likely to reach for in a variety of tough situations.

 

[James Kovacich]

I bought 2 HF survival knives on sale for less than $10. I took one of them to my Army Surplus store to upgrade the button compass inside of it. They checked my button compass and told me it was fine. They also told me that during war there's not really such a thing as U.S. surpluss. So they do also have to sell foreign stuff. I was disapointed I couldn't get U.S. Army folding shovel, mess kit and canteen like the ones my dad brought back from WW2. I am planning on buying one of their higher end portable water filters as I can't skimp with that.

I also have a bunch of the HF magnesium fire starters, 1 with each emergency pack and each hiking pack. I also picked up a small HF slingshot for $5, its compact and powerful. Anybody that's watches Dual Survival, Survivorman etc knows a slingshot is a plus. As a kid I had bb guns, bows and arrows and slingshots. My wife told me you think your going to shoot a squirrel or rabbit with a bb? I told her no, when shooting I pack the slingshot pouch with about 10 bb's.

If you understand what to buy from where it's easy to tailor our packs. I also buy my Premier brand 30 gram protein bars from Costco for $18 for 24 bars which I keep a handful of the in each hiking pack. I also have Costco sized peanut butter and jelly in each emergency pack.

All of my packs have the basics, band aids/bandages, cortizone, tape, cotton (which doubles as tinder), water,ibuprophen and allergy pills, emergency blankets, emergency ponchos. I just started adding aloe vera to my packs, I seem to use it more than cortizone. They also have spare reading glasses, magnifying glasses, lighters, knives including utility knives. Toothpaste, toothbrushes, deodorant, ziplock bags, batteries, flashlights. There's more I'm thinking off the top of my head.

My emergency packs have room for more stuff. My 2 hiking packs are full. 1 is kinda like a fannie pack except instead of a single pouch it pockets all the way around which hold a lot and it holds a water bottle. I attached 1 survival knife to it and 1 to my backpack which has the same stuff as the belt pack plus a 3lb. 1 man tent, more water, twine, HF machete. I plan to add a mess kit and a good water filter. I'm also going to "overpay" for the small bottles of bleach (for water purification) that will easily fit into the packs except the belt back. I have several compasses and a handheld Magellan gps which I ordered extra chargers, including car chargers, extra batteries and it has an adapter to run it off of 3 aaa batteries. I plan to get a universal solar charger for the hiking pack.

My emergency packs are in my home and vehicles except my truck which has both hiking packs. I've already experienced hiking with just my leatherman and a bottle of water and needing a compass. I don't think I will ever make that mistake again.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Kong Soo Do]

I realize Cody is trying to stick with basic fundamentals without relying on gadgets and doodads, but I'm not sure I understand the "drinking tube/straw" description from his blog.

To a hiker, a "straw" is a plastic drinking straw that has a built-in water filter, such as this one from Aquamira:

Couple of thoughts on this; I've seen Cody dig down into the sand to harvest water. That is a natural sand filter. Doesn't mean the water is 'safe', but perhaps 'safer' than other sources. Or for use after a rain in hard to get to spots. Again, doesn't mean it hasn't been contaminated but he seems to indicate this is a last-ditch sort of think. Perhaps you can draw water up into the straw, put your finger over the top end which locks in the water and then let it run into a container. Do this until you're either out of water or the container is filled then disinfect? Looking at your link though, seems that maybe you could get the best of both worlds by fitting the tubing to the straw for extended reach?

If it were me packing such a kit, I'd include some basic first aid essentials like Advil, Immodium, and hand sanitizer (yeah, I'm big in to sanitizer...LOL). Sanitizer helps with personal hygiene without diverting from your water supply, plus it is flammable and could easily serve as an emergency fire starter. These are lightweight, inexpensive, and don't take up much space, plus they are things that I would be likely to reach for in a variety of tough situations.

Big +1 on the hand sanitizer. Hygiene is extremely important, particularly in these types of situations. And it does make a great fire-starter aid.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I think a lot of people buy 'things' and don't know how to survive.

A compass is not of much use if you do not know how to use it. If you can't read a lensatic compass and read a topo map, you've got problems. Of course, you have to know where you're going and why, too.

I've seen fishing line packed by people who don't know how to fish. I've seen people talk about how they'll trap game; ever trapped any game?

I don't see spare socks on the list. You lose the use of your feet, and you die quickly.

I dunno. I've done the real survival training, and it's tough and it sucks. A lot.

I doubt any of you who are not veterans have ever had to catch and eat your food, build a shelter, make your way to an objective, and be ready to fight when you arrived.

A bag of stuff in your trunk doesn't give you that magical capability.

Just sayin'.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

I think a lot of people buy 'things' and don't know how to survive.

A compass is not of much use if you do not know how to use it. If you can't read a lensatic compass and read a topo map, you've got problems. Of course, you have to know where you're going and why, too.

I've seen fishing line packed by people who don't know how to fish. I've seen people talk about how they'll trap game; ever trapped any game?

I don't see spare socks on the list. You lose the use of your feet, and you die quickly.

I dunno. I've done the real survival training, and it's tough and it sucks. A lot.

I doubt any of you who are not veterans have ever had to catch and eat your food, build a shelter, make your way to an objective, and be ready to fight when you arrived.

A bag of stuff in your trunk doesn't give you that magical capability.

Just sayin'.

Yes, it is important to know how to do the various tasks that are associated with survival i.e. the ability to stay calm, deal with injury, deal with others injuries, make fire, disinfect water, self protection from elements/humans/animals, food preparation, sanitation and a plethora of other considerations. It is important to hone these skill ahead of time. Try out the mag-bar. Make a tinder bundle out of various things. Know how to put up the tent/hammock or build a shelter. Know various ways of obtaining water i.e. solar still, dew collector, rain catchers etc. All good skills to have prior to needed them. As Cody has been known to say, reading a book about how to swim when the ship is sinking isn't your best option.

I'm a veteran which helps. But it isn't the be-all-to-end-all. Not every veteran has survival skills or is in anyway better equiped than anyone else. Just in this section, and these several survival threads are people that have camped, backpacked, lived off the land etc. The skills necessary to do these things puts them well up on someone that hasn't. Camping, and by this I mean primative camping is a good way to learn many of the skills necessary.

Having a bag of stuff isn't magic as you say, but in the hands of those that are skilled in the use of the contents it constitutes a valuable resource. Have the stuff and know how to best use it.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Yes, it is important to know how to do the various tasks that are associated with survival i.e. the ability to stay calm, deal with injury, deal with others injuries, make fire, disinfect water, self protection from elements/humans/animals, food preparation, sanitation and a plethora of other considerations. It is important to hone these skill ahead of time. Try out the mag-bar. Make a tinder bundle out of various things. Know how to put up the tent/hammock or build a shelter. Know various ways of obtaining water i.e. solar still, dew collector, rain catchers etc. All good skills to have prior to needed them. As Cody has been known to say, reading a book about how to swim when the ship is sinking isn't your best option.

I say it's not good enough until you do it for real. Just my opinion. Books, training, and even limited practical experience, all are inferior to actually spending a week in the woods.

I'm a veteran which helps. But it isn't the be-all-to-end-all. Not every veteran has survival skills or is in anyway better equiped than anyone else. Just in this section, and these several survival threads are people that have camped, backpacked, lived off the land etc. The skills necessary to do these things puts them well up on someone that hasn't. Camping, and by this I mean primative camping is a good way to learn many of the skills necessary.

Yes, just being a veteran isn't enough. I guess I was thinking of Marine veterans, and of Marine veterans, those who have gone through the survival courses where they either made it to the rally point alive, or had to be found and extracted as complete failures.

Having a bag of stuff isn't magic as you say, but in the hands of those that are skilled in the use of the contents it constitutes a valuable resource. Have the stuff and know how to best use it.

Absolutely. I'm just saying a lot of this stuff is fantasy warrior stuff. People buy the gear and think they're all set. What very well may happen WTSHTF is that someone like me comes and takes all that groovy stuff away from them.

Sounds like you know what you're doing, cool.

I guess I would just say to people that if they think they're going to order their survival gear out of a catalog and then be "OK" for TEOTWAWKI, they may find themselves sadly mistaken.

Just a quick example...

I see people who think about how to find a vehicle that won't have a problem if there is an EMP that ruins the modern integrated circuits in most cars today. Cool. Now, where is it you're planning to get fuel for those vehicles? If you don't have a 55-gallon drum, a hand-pump, and know where to find it, you might be sucking hind teat. And don't forget when you back your vehicle up to the local gas station to pump their underground tanks, you're going to make some noise, so you'll probably have to have someone manning the weapons while you pump, and ready to kill anyone who wants what you have.

I seldom see information about WHERE it is people think they will go. "I'll head for the hills," or "I'll head for the country," is way too vague. Really? And do what? Do you suppose you'll be welcomed by the country boys already there? Are you going to head north, south, east, west? For how long? How will you know when it's safe to come back (if ever)?

And while we're on the subject, we also have this notion that somehow the world will fall apart at a very convenient time. Everyone will be at home, together, in good health, and we'll all just jump in the SUV and bug out. Nice! What if you're at work, your spouse is at home or another job somewhere else, the kids are at school, one of the kids is having a root canal done, etc, etc, when the lights go out? No cell phones, so you can't communicate with each other. Hope you have designated rally points. Hope you have alternate meeting areas. Did you cache anything anywhere for stuff too big to always have with you? Have you tested any of this stuff?

I don't even know many people who have practiced getting out of their own homes in an emergency; if they woke up in the middle of the night with the place filled with smoke and the dogs barking and so on, would they even know how to get out of the house? Have they practiced it? Do they know where they would meet up if they got separated? Who is responsible for going down the hallway to get the baby, who is responsible for trying to let the pets out if possible? And so on.

There is so much more to preparedness than buying stuff.

Personally, I have tried without success to even get friends, relatives, and neighbors to attend free government weather-spotting courses. They don't even know the difference between a storm likely to produce a tornado and one that won't. Prepared? Yes, they are prepared to be victims. Buying a bag of stuff won't change that.

I do know people who will probably make it when it all goes sideways. About three of them. And I don't even count myself at this point; there are many things I need to be doing that I am not doing, and it could cost me.

 

[James Kovacich]

I think a lot of people buy 'things' and don't know how to survive.

A compass is not of much use if you do not know how to use it. If you can't read a lensatic compass and read a topo map, you've got problems. Of course, you have to know where you're going and why, too.

I've seen fishing line packed by people who don't know how to fish. I've seen people talk about how they'll trap game; ever trapped any game?

I don't see spare socks on the list. You lose the use of your feet, and you die quickly.

I dunno. I've done the real survival training, and it's tough and it sucks. A lot.

I doubt any of you who are not veterans have ever had to catch and eat your food, build a shelter, make your way to an objective, and be ready to fight when you arrived.

A bag of stuff in your trunk doesn't give you that magical capability.

Just sayin'.

A lot of martial artists have never been in a real fight and likely will never yet they still train MA.

Just sayin'

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Bill Mattocks]

A lot of martial artists have never been in a real fight and likely will never yet they still train MA.

Just sayin'

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

A person may not be able to test their MA training in actual self-defense situations; it's generally not advisable to start fights to see if your training works (in older times, of course, things were different).

On the other hand, a person can test their preparedness training. Choosing not to is voluntary, but it's not something that is inadvisable like starting a fistfight would be.

I would compare a person who collects gear for the Zombie Apocalypse more to people who read books on martial arts and buy swords from online retailers than to people who actually practice martial arts in a training facility on a regular basis. One is actively doing something that may help them in defending themselves in real life. The other is just pulling on their phallum bway bway and imagining their capabilities.

 

[James Kovacich]

I say it's not good enough until you do it for real. Just my opinion. Books, training, and even limited practical experience, all are inferior to actually spending a week in the woods.



Yes, just being a veteran isn't enough. I guess I was thinking of Marine veterans, and of Marine veterans, those who have gone through the survival courses where they either made it to the rally point alive, or had to be found and extracted as complete failures.



Absolutely. I'm just saying a lot of this stuff is fantasy warrior stuff. People buy the gear and think they're all set. What very well may happen WTSHTF is that someone like me comes and takes all that groovy stuff away from them.

Sounds like you know what you're doing, cool.

I guess I would just say to people that if they think they're going to order their survival gear out of a catalog and then be "OK" for TEOTWAWKI, they may find themselves sadly mistaken.

Just a quick example...

I see people who think about how to find a vehicle that won't have a problem if there is an EMP that ruins the modern integrated circuits in most cars today. Cool. Now, where is it you're planning to get fuel for those vehicles? If you don't have a 55-gallon drum, a hand-pump, and know where to find it, you might be sucking hind teat. And don't forget when you back your vehicle up to the local gas station to pump their underground tanks, you're going to make some noise, so you'll probably have to have someone manning the weapons while you pump, and ready to kill anyone who wants what you have.

I seldom see information about WHERE it is people think they will go. "I'll head for the hills," or "I'll head for the country," is way too vague. Really? And do what? Do you suppose you'll be welcomed by the country boys already there? Are you going to head north, south, east, west? For how long? How will you know when it's safe to come back (if ever)?

And while we're on the subject, we also have this notion that somehow the world will fall apart at a very convenient time. Everyone will be at home, together, in good health, and we'll all just jump in the SUV and bug out. Nice! What if you're at work, your spouse is at home or another job somewhere else, the kids are at school, one of the kids is having a root canal done, etc, etc, when the lights go out? No cell phones, so you can't communicate with each other. Hope you have designated rally points. Hope you have alternate meeting areas. Did you cache anything anywhere for stuff too big to always have with you? Have you tested any of this stuff?

I don't even know many people who have practiced getting out of their own homes in an emergency; if they woke up in the middle of the night with the place filled with smoke and the dogs barking and so on, would they even know how to get out of the house? Have they practiced it? Do they know where they would meet up if they got separated? Who is responsible for going down the hallway to get the baby, who is responsible for trying to let the pets out if possible? And so on.

There is so much more to preparedness than buying stuff.

Personally, I have tried without success to even get friends, relatives, and neighbors to attend free government weather-spotting courses. They don't even know the difference between a storm likely to produce a tornado and one that won't. Prepared? Yes, they are prepared to be victims. Buying a bag of stuff won't change that.

I do know people who will probably make it when it all goes sideways. About three of them. And I don't even count myself at this point; there are many things I need to be doing that I am not doing, and it could cost me.

Sounds like you can start several threads out of your posts. If you read the other threads, not that you had to, just sayin', you'd already know that a lot of these people are hikers. Me I grew up fishing and boating, got my 1st small boat around the age of 11 around the same time I started dirt riding. I didnt even own a lifejacket until I was an adult. And where I live, to not have an earthquake pack is ignorant. Education is key for many things in life.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Kong Soo Do]

I say it's not good enough until you do it for real. Just my opinion. Books, training, and even limited practical experience, all are inferior to actually spending a week in the woods.



Yes, just being a veteran isn't enough. I guess I was thinking of Marine veterans, and of Marine veterans, those who have gone through the survival courses where they either made it to the rally point alive, or had to be found and extracted as complete failures.



Absolutely. I'm just saying a lot of this stuff is fantasy warrior stuff. People buy the gear and think they're all set. What very well may happen WTSHTF is that someone like me comes and takes all that groovy stuff away from them.

Sounds like you know what you're doing, cool.

I guess I would just say to people that if they think they're going to order their survival gear out of a catalog and then be "OK" for TEOTWAWKI, they may find themselves sadly mistaken.

Just a quick example...

I see people who think about how to find a vehicle that won't have a problem if there is an EMP that ruins the modern integrated circuits in most cars today. Cool. Now, where is it you're planning to get fuel for those vehicles? If you don't have a 55-gallon drum, a hand-pump, and know where to find it, you might be sucking hind teat. And don't forget when you back your vehicle up to the local gas station to pump their underground tanks, you're going to make some noise, so you'll probably have to have someone manning the weapons while you pump, and ready to kill anyone who wants what you have.

I seldom see information about WHERE it is people think they will go. "I'll head for the hills," or "I'll head for the country," is way too vague. Really? And do what? Do you suppose you'll be welcomed by the country boys already there? Are you going to head north, south, east, west? For how long? How will you know when it's safe to come back (if ever)?

And while we're on the subject, we also have this notion that somehow the world will fall apart at a very convenient time. Everyone will be at home, together, in good health, and we'll all just jump in the SUV and bug out. Nice! What if you're at work, your spouse is at home or another job somewhere else, the kids are at school, one of the kids is having a root canal done, etc, etc, when the lights go out? No cell phones, so you can't communicate with each other. Hope you have designated rally points. Hope you have alternate meeting areas. Did you cache anything anywhere for stuff too big to always have with you? Have you tested any of this stuff?

I don't even know many people who have practiced getting out of their own homes in an emergency; if they woke up in the middle of the night with the place filled with smoke and the dogs barking and so on, would they even know how to get out of the house? Have they practiced it? Do they know where they would meet up if they got separated? Who is responsible for going down the hallway to get the baby, who is responsible for trying to let the pets out if possible? And so on.

There is so much more to preparedness than buying stuff.

Personally, I have tried without success to even get friends, relatives, and neighbors to attend free government weather-spotting courses. They don't even know the difference between a storm likely to produce a tornado and one that won't. Prepared? Yes, they are prepared to be victims. Buying a bag of stuff won't change that.

I do know people who will probably make it when it all goes sideways. About three of them. And I don't even count myself at this point; there are many things I need to be doing that I am not doing, and it could cost me.

Bill, all the points you make are valid and spot on. There are a TON of survival kits/BOB/GHB/EDC on the market. Just look at Amazon, Ebay and a plethora of other sites. And some of them actually have some useful stuff, some not so much. Problem with this is that someone will buy them and never really examine/use/test the contents. Then as you state they'll be SOL when the SHTF. This would apply to those also that know what their doing if they just 'buy n store' the pre-made kit. It is far better to actually build your own kit/BOB/GHB/EDC. This way you know exactly what is in the bag, where it is in the bag, expiration dates (if applicable) and you'll be far more likely to be able to access and use the contents under stress.

And it doesn't have to be hard and/or expensive. A trip to the local dollar store will provide quite a bit. I'm actually talking to my partner about this today. At the dollar store I've picked up a pack of 3 rain ponchos. Will they last a hundred years? No, but they'll be there in a pinch when I want to stay dry. I've picked up a small first aid kit with various sized bandages that will always prove useful. Same with alcohol swaps, packages of chaptick, cotton balls, dental floss an numerous other things one would need. Oh, and packages of 2 or 3 hand sanitizer which is highly useful for numerous things. Far more useful than a 'Rambo' knife

Ebay and Amazon are also great places, as is the flea market. I just picked up a pack of 6 mylar survival blankets off Ebay for $7. Useful resource with several uses. I picked up a great EDC bag that is small, light weight and has lots of pockets and can be worn several different ways. That bag was all of $15. Point is that building a good, reliable pack/kit/BOB/GHB/EDC or whatever can be economical and even fun. Certainly no excuse there not to do so.

And there are a ton of resources on the net such as this board, other survival boards and even YT that will help someone get involved and their feet wet. And then there are classes that one can take, often for free. So there are a lot of resources available to those that can put the TV on hold here and there to do something proactive for themselves and there family.

This way their not paying $10 for a box of matches after the SHTF! A little self-reliance goes a long way.

BTW, you bring up good points also about things such as 'where do I go/should I stay'. I think you should start a thread about it. I'd like to hear what you and others suggest and would have some comments to offer as well

 

[Bill Mattocks]

BTW, you bring up good points also about things such as 'where do I go/should I stay'. I think you should start a thread about it. I'd like to hear what you and others suggest and would have some comments to offer as well

Thank you. I'll give it some thought. I have tried before, here and elsewhere. A very long time ago, I used to read a few of the 'survivalist' BBS and gun-related discussion forums. I was quickly disabused of the notion that there were many people there but armchair commandos. Most of them had never sat down and thought out their plan, let alone tried it, and the few that had very detailed plans had clearly based them on fantasy scenarios that would never happen.

I will give it some more thought. There are a lot of things people could do without much effort, stuff that would greatly increase their chances of survival in the event of a natural disaster (IMHO, the single most likely event to occur requiring survival skills). Stuff that the US government has even provided for and our taxpayer dollars fund. Yet all I see at training classes are retired grandmothers who are bored and need something to do, and the guys who you see at HAM radio swap meets who wear overalls, have eleven portable scanners sticking out of the pockets, and live with their parents until they are 50 years old.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Sounds like you can start several threads out of your posts. If you read the other threads, not that you had to, just sayin', you'd already know that a lot of these people are hikers. Me I grew up fishing and boating, got my 1st small boat around the age of 11 around the same time I started dirt riding. I didnt even own a lifejacket until I was an adult. And where I live, to not have an earthquake pack is ignorant. Education is key for many things in life.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

Hikers/Campers/Fisherman will have developed quite a few useful skills that will be necessary in any survival situation. One can always draw on that experience and/or teach others.

 

[Carol]

Hikers/Campers/Fisherman will have developed quite a few useful skills that will be necessary in any survival situation. One can always draw on that experience and/or teach others.

Farmers are also well versed in riding out a variety of situations.

I think the discussion here has been very reasonable. I haven't seen any talk about protecting cars from an EMP bomb, or debating the best way to kill zombies, I also haven't seen talk of a lot of expensive toys, or gadgets with very little practical use.

Personally I'm a big believer in education and sharing knowledge. I hiked Mt. Eisenhower with a couple that were very experienced hikers, and had done trail maintenance all over the state. They taught me quite a bit about what goes in to constructing a trail, which taught me a lot about what to watch for when I'm out on my own. By the same token, I discovered that they did not really know how to read a topo map very well or understand the importance of time in navigation. We got to learn from each other, which was very cool.

 

[James Kovacich]

Farmers are also well versed in riding out a variety of situations.

I think the discussion here has been very reasonable. I haven't seen any talk about protecting cars from an EMP bomb, or debating the best way to kill zombies, I also haven't seen talk of a lot of expensive toys, or gadgets with very little practical use.

Personally I'm a big believer in education and sharing knowledge. I hiked Mt. Eisenhower with a couple that were very experienced hikers, and had done trail maintenance all over the state. They taught me quite a bit about what goes in to constructing a trail, which taught me a lot about what to watch for when I'm out on my own. By the same token, I discovered that they did not really know how to read a topo map very well or understand the importance of time in navigation. We got to learn from each other, which was very cool.

Luckily I didn't work with people who couldn't read their maps but I too worked on fire trails back in my '20's. That was an experience.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Carol]

Luckily I didn't work with people who couldn't read their maps but I too worked on fire trails back in my '20's. That was an experience.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

Nice! That must have been quite the experience. I would like to join my friends doing trail work at some point, but I need to get a bit stronger overall before going out with an extra 10 pounds of tools

Many hiking trails out here in the White Mountains are generally obvious and do not even need blazes for identification. Some are well-worn with time and use, others were built on what were once right-of-ways for logging trains. Winter conditions aside, they are often very easy for even an inexperienced hiker to follow. This ease in my opinion can lead to a false sense of security as to the challenges and risks that are out there. Too many times the rescues done by Fish and Game during foliage season are for hikers that would have been fine had they simply been better prepared with better planning, or better packing. I think most of the benighted hikers rescued in October would have been able to return to the trailhead without assistance had they managed to pack a lamp and extra layers of clothing.