Ed Parker on change says it all!

[Fastmover]

Greatgrand Master Ed Parker wrote:
“When I am gone, I hope that people won't try to traditionalize my Art. I want you to always remember that Kenpo will always be the Art of Perpetual Change. If you remember this, then the Art will never become obsolete because it will change with the times. While the ignorant refuse to study and the intelligent never stop, we should always be mindful of the fact that our reward in life is proportionate with the contributions we make. A true Martial Artist is not one who fears change, but one who causes it to happen. To live is to change, and to obtain perfection is to have changed often. Progress is a necessity that is a part of nature. While it is true that casting the old aside is not necessary in order to obtain something new, we should study old theories not as a means of discrediting them, but to see if they can be modified to improve our present conditions. A word of advice, The humble man makes room for progress; the proud man believes he is already there."
Edmund Kealoha Parker Sr.

 

[KanoLives]

That's some good stuff.

 

[KanoLives]

Some real good brain food. :drinkbeer

 

[Touch Of Death]

This must be one of those meanigless homilies I heard about on another thread.

 

[Fastmover]

I have plenty of other quotes from Ed Parker on this subject but since it is "meaningless homilies" I just keep them to myself.

By the way I found a 1981 inteview with Larry Tatum discussing tradition and I found it to be very interesting.

"You see masters from the Orient coming to the United States to learn new concepts about their arts which are constantly being refined. This has happened because Americans have always been innovators-that is why this country is as great as it is.
Traditionally, we are not traditionalists. If we were traditionalists, we would all be driving around in Model T Fords."

I have to say I totally agree with him, if this kind of logic applied then, why not today?

Im washing my hands of this subject, we really are not getting anywhere.

Be Good,

John

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by Fastmover
Greatgrand Master Ed Parker wrote:
“When I am gone, I hope that people won't try to traditionalize my Art. I want you to always remember that Kenpo will always be the Art of Perpetual Change. If you remember this, then the Art will never become obsolete because it will change with the times. While the ignorant refuse to study and the intelligent never stop, we should always be mindful of the fact that our reward in life is proportionate with the contributions we make. A true Martial Artist is not one who fears change, but one who causes it to happen. To live is to change, and to obtain perfection is to have changed often. Progress is a necessity that is a part of nature. While it is true that casting the old aside is not necessary in order to obtain something new, we should study old theories not as a means of discrediting them, but to see if they can be modified to improve our present conditions. A word of advice, The humble man makes room for progress; the proud man believes he is already there."
Edmund Kealoha Parker Sr.

WOW!! Some good stuff here. Maybe some people here will learn something from this quote!

Mike

 

[rmcrobertson]

Uh...I thought we weren't supposed to repeat the claims of tradition, but to evolve?

Here's what I think the difference may really be: you're interested in improving the technology; I'm interested in improving, and teaching others how to improve themselves, and in improving my understanding of kenpo.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by Fastmover
I have plenty of other quotes from Ed Parker on this subject but since it is "meaningless homilies" I just keep them to myself.

I'm joking for gods sake; lighten up. My comment was part of another conversation with another person. I'm sorry it offended you. Please proceed.

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
Uh...I thought we weren't supposed to repeat the claims of tradition, but to evolve?

Here's what I think the difference may really be: you're interested in improving the technology; I'm interested in improving, and teaching others how to improve themselves, and in improving my understanding of kenpo.

Actually, I'm interested in improving myself as well as my students. And I try to do this by changing with the times. Like I said before, Kenpo is an excellent art, but there are others out there, that offer things that Kenpo does not. If I can take a concept from another place and add it to the Kenpo, just think about how much better my Kenpo is going to be.

As for the quote by EP. He is saying right in there, that its an art of Perpetual Change. It will never become obsolete because it will change with the times. By adding in concepts and ideas from other styles, this is how it will change for the better, not for the worse.

Mike

 

[Fastmover]

No really I was giving you a hard time, sorry my sarcasm doesnt come across well over the internet.

Maybe im being the trouble maker!!!

 

[Fastmover]

"Here's what I think the difference may really be: you're interested in improving the technology; I'm interested in improving, and teaching others how to improve themselves, and in improving my understanding of kenpo."

Im right there with you Robert, but Im interested in improving technology, improving myself, teaching others how to improve themselves, and improving my understanding of Kenpo. All of them!!! I think all these things work in harmony with each other? I dont see how we can do some without effecting the rest.

As our understanding matures and our knowledge grows, so will that of others. It only makes sense to me that we include this enlightened knowledge to the system as we go. Personally I hope that my students at yellow belt, are better then me when I was a yellow belt and so on.

Be Good

John

 

[Michael Billings]

... critical of those who chose to teach EPAK as their sole primary Art. Maybe a new Forum needs to be added for NeoBJJexKenpoka kinda stuff? (said with a grin an small chuckle so as to not be misunderstood.)

The debate is fine, let's try to focus in on a thread or two instead of all over the board ... or not, it is up to yall. But we tend to go over the same ground repetitively instead of continuing the beneficial dialogue in a single thread or two, where we can maintain the continuity of thought and not confuse others and newbies.

Just a thought.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
... critical of those who chose to teach EPAK as their sole primary Art. Maybe a new Forum needs to be added for NeoBJJexKenpoka kinda stuff? (said with a grin an small chuckle so as to not be misunderstood.)

The debate is fine, let's try to focus in on a thread or two instead of all over the board ... or not, it is up to yall. But we tend to go over the same ground repetitively instead of continuing the beneficial dialogue in a single thread or two, where we can maintain the continuity of thought and not confuse others and newbies.

Just a thought.

AAAAAAAAAAMEN!

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Wow: another thread on a closely related topic. At least we're not talking about the differences between hopping, skipping, and standing on one-leg and how long one should do any of those in a given technique.

It is really good that Mr. Parker has returned from the beyond to opine on my favorite subject.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Jefferson Airplane had a cool lyric it went like this "one man of peace dies and a hundred wars begin..." we can all find Parker quotes to support any argument we want to make and he ain't around to tell us we took it out of context. Maybe Kenpoka found a way.

 

[Fastmover]

I invite you to read it yourself then. Its in Infinite Insights, Vol 2 page 2 of the Introduction. Actually within the context he speaks alot about tradition.

Also check out the Dedication in Vol 2. from Mr Parker.

"To all Martial Artist who welcome change, who are willing to allow it to happen, and who perpetuate change to obtain perfection, I dedicate this book."

 

[sumdumguy]

This is a touchy subject, so I will touch it as delicately as I can?
I personally think that often, more often than not, individuals who are "trying" to improve their "system" spend (un-neccasarily) more time trying to fit another system into said system then they actually spend trying to really understand the base system. The American Kenpo system Has a great many things hidden with in it's infrastructure that (some or many) have not yet explored or understood. Whether it be principles, concepts or motion this holds true. Let's take for Example the work that Mr. Tommy Burks is doing, I hardly think that he is studying some Kali on the side to incorporate it into Kenpo? (Correct me if I'm wrong Mr. Billings?) Their are many others who are doing silimar things with IN the Kenpo System that probably may never hit the "main stream" of the Kenpo world. It's no big secret that this is possible. I watched a David German Tape years ago about "Chi-Na", in the tape he basically said that you could find all of the motion from all of the systems in this one system because they all came from it? Now whether this is true or not, who knows? But it made me think well if that's possible then isn't it possible that the system that I study holds the same?
Well I have rambled enough, Sorry about the long winded input, hopefully it will help someone?

Thank You and have a Great 4th!!!!
America's Independence Day!!!!!!!!! :asian: :asian:

 

[MJS]

I still have the hard time understanding why people are so against cross training???? We are not all robots, even though I'm starting to think that is the case in here. Should we all do the same thing, the same way, with the same goals in mind?? Of course not, so why are we continuing to talk about it? It someone wants to cross train, then fine...we are all entitled to our own ways of training. Sure, Kenpo has knife disarms, and stick disarms, and locks, but if some people found an interest in the knife or the stick, why can't they go and train with an inst. who does this? Because its breaking away from tradition?? PLEASE, GIVE ME A BREAK!! Are you honestly gong to tell me that any Kenpo inst. can fight with a stick or knife as good as someone like Dan Inosanto?? I VERY highly doubt it. Of course, those inst who can, must have trained with someone else, right? Sure, some of those things that were mentioned are in Kenpo, but if you wanted to explore deeper into it, I really don't think that you will find it unless you look elsewhere!

Mike

 

[kkbb]

Originally posted by MJS
I still have the hard time understanding why people are so against cross training???? We are not all robots, even though I'm starting to think that is the case in here. Should we all do the same thing, the same way, with the same goals in mind?? Of course not, so why are we continuing to talk about it? It someone wants to cross train, then fine...we are all entitled to our own ways of training. Sure, Kenpo has knife disarms, and stick disarms, and locks, but if some people found an interest in the knife or the stick, why can't they go and train with an inst. who does this? Because its breaking away from tradition?? PLEASE, GIVE ME A BREAK!! Are you honestly gong to tell me that any Kenpo inst. can fight with a stick or knife as good as someone like Dan Inosanto?? I VERY highly doubt it. Of course, those inst who can, must have trained with someone else, right? Sure, some of those things that were mentioned are in Kenpo, but if you wanted to explore deeper into it, I really don't think that you will find it unless you look elsewhere!

Mike

I don't think anybody is against anybody cross training. I think that anybody cross training because of "percieved" deficincies in their art (kenpo or not) is the point of argument. When we cross train because we think the answer is elsewhere then we have short changed ourselves in our own art. The concepts and principles in our own art (again kenpo or others) are not usually compatable and do not cross lines well. Therefore to bring outside concepts and principles into your own art is "foreign" and has a tendency to water down not strengthen the art you study. Mr Parker's point here, if I may be so humble as to presume what he was thinking, is that evolution "within" the confines of kenpo is an absolute must. To study Arnis, Bjj, Shotokan, Taekwondo, etc... is a good idea...but..... and I mean.... but... to add those concepts (that are foriegn) to your art is not a good idea. To learn those concepts then to modify and adjust your Kenpo (or whatever) to counter those techniques, without wholesale change is the prefered "evolution" I think Mr. Parker was after.

Maybe people should, with the help of their instructor, "play" with scenarios, what if's, how could's?...and come up with answers to many unsolved questions... like "What happens if I end up on the ground?" etc... then share that info..... you never know.... they may be the next "real innovator" in their respective art....:asian:

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by kkbb
I don't think anybody is against anybody cross training. I think that anybody cross training because of "percieved" deficincies in their art (kenpo or not) is the point of argument. When we cross train because we think the answer is elsewhere then we have short changed ourselves in our own art. The concepts and principles in our own art (again kenpo or others) are not usually compatable and do not cross lines well. Therefore to bring outside concepts and principles into your own art is "foreign" and has a tendency to water down not strengthen the art you study. Mr Parker's point here, if I may be so humble as to presume what he was thinking, is that evolution "within" the confines of kenpo is an absolute must. To study Arnis, Bjj, Shotokan, Taekwondo, etc... is a good idea...but..... and I mean.... but... to add those concepts (that are foriegn) to your art is not a good idea. To learn those concepts then to modify and adjust your Kenpo (or whatever) to counter those techniques, without wholesale change is the prefered "evolution" I think Mr. Parker was after.

Maybe people should, with the help of their instructor, "play" with scenarios, what if's, how could's?...and come up with answers to many unsolved questions... like "What happens if I end up on the ground?" etc... then share that info..... you never know.... they may be the next "real innovator" in their respective art....:asian:

KKBB- with all due respect, I have to say that I disagree! It sounds to me like you are saying that why bother to cross train, because if you wait 10 or 20 yrs and devote yourself to just one thing, then maybe, just maybe you will find it in there somewhere??? That is CRAZY!!! You say that the ideas do not fit in well with Kenpo? Another crazy statement. Bottom line is, is that nobody wants to make them fit. I train in Modern Arnis, and I find that some of the movements greatly help my Kenpo.

You mention watering down things. If anything, crosstraing improves your training, not waters it down.

You also mention studying BJJ is not a good idea, but then you say well, go ahead and study it, but then bring the concepts over to the Kenpo. That is what i've been saying all along, but NOBODY is listening. Well, correction there, some people listen, while others dont. Anyway, I never said to take another 10 yrs of your life and study another art in its entirety. I said, if you want to do that, then fine, but there is nothing wrong with taking an idea from another art and adding to Kenpo. If anything, it will be something to add to your own knowledge. Go back and re-read some of my posts. This is exactly what I've been attempting to say!!!

Mike