Earning Black Belt Advice Appreciated

[edford2000]

Not exactly sure how to proceed and what to do. My son Nicholas has been in Taekwondo since he was 5
he is now turning 11. Nicholas was finally going for his black belt so we spent the $500.00 and had him
take the tests. Nicholas was busting his butt and fought through the day. He passed the testing and was
informed that he was now a black belt. He wears the belt during his current training.

This testing was done the beginning of November 2014 and it is now March 2015. The certificate still
has not come from his instructor showing what he had earned. I even asked about the cert but
was told by his instructor that the certificate "means nothing". I would like to pull Nick from this
school and goto another but there is no decent ones local to our home. I would also be concerned about
this schools black belt being transferrable to a different school.

What is the best way to get his certificate that he earned? Seems the instructor could care less.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You

 

[Tez3]

I'm sorry I can't give any advice as it's not my style but just wanted to say 'wow' at spending that for a child's black belt! I'm staggered that they could charge that much and also at an 11 year old black belt. I'm afraid it doesn't help you but I'm sure there's those on here who can help.
To be honest if you felt you wanted to move him I wouldn't worry about the black belt being transferable, I would find a place he was happy at and not think too much of what grade he was.

 

[Blindside]

This testing was done the beginning of November 2014 and it is now March 2015. The certificate still
has not come from his instructor showing what he had earned. I even asked about the cert but
was told by his instructor that the certificate "means nothing". I would like to pull Nick from this
school and goto another but there is no decent ones local to our home. I would also be concerned about
this schools black belt being transferrable to a different school.

What is the best way to get his certificate that he earned? Seems the instructor could care less.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You

Is the certificate a local certificate made by your school or does it come from some larger institution/organization?

If you transfer to a school outside of your organization your son's rank certificate really doesn't mean much, I am sure it would be nice for him to have but no one ever asks for it. If you transfer to a parallel school within the same organization then it could certainly be an issue. Was part of the (ridiculously large) testing fee to register him with a national/international organization?

 

[Andrew Green]

Unless you belong to a larger federation the entire concept is a little different then what you might think. I've been involved in this for quite some time and I have never had anyone ask to see any certificate I have, or asked anyone to see there certificate. Rank is a lot less formal and standards vary wildly from school to school. It's not like a University degree that is accredited and recognized by everyone.

In order to be a full 1st Dan black belt there are often age requirements as well, and at 11 I don't think most of the large organizations would certify any more then a Jr Black Belt rank. So it may very well be that any certificate they could give you would be quite meaningless outside of that school.

If you are looking at switching schools, then go for it. Forget the rank and the style and whether or not the belt is transferable or not. Maybe it turns out he'd prefer to give Judo or something a try which is completely different in skills anyways.

As for the cost, whether thats justified or not would really depend on a lot of things about what is going in to the testing and graduation, what the tuition fees are, etc. It's on the higher side, but one number doesn't paint a full picture and worrying about that after the fact isn't going to help anyone.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I may not agree with children wearing black belts but I will say congratulations to him on passing the test.
As far as the certificate goes, tell the instructor to hand it over or face a court case and a report to the local better business bureau and maybe even the district at tourney for fraudulent business practices.
The test was taken, passed, and the certificate is now the property of your son.

 

[Dirty Dog]

You likely won't appreciate this comment, but I'd say that schools awarding black belts to 11 year olds do not fall into the category of "decent" schools. The instructor is correct. The certificate means nothing.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Regardless of whether you approve of giving black belts to 11 year olds (I don't, but it's not my system), it displays a serious lack of integrity for an instructor to charge that much for a belt test and not provide the certificate. I would definitely find another school.

As other have noted, the rank probably wouldn't be transferable to another school unless the certificate was from a national/international organization and the new school happened to belong to the same organization.

 

[jks9199]

Not going to address the 11 year old black belt point. The kid tested, and passed. He deserves his certificate, and the school chief instructor should be taking care of it, not trying to deflect you.

Unfortunately, this is something that pops up way too often in these discussions. TKD schools, especially, though not exclusively, that charge a lot of money, and then never seem to deliver an actual certificate or other proof. Some collect extra fees for things like Kukkiwon registration, well in excess of the actual fee -- then never deliver the certificate. Push the guy on it; he's acting like a crook.

As to changing schools, or styles... YOUR call, with his input. At 11 -- I suggest disclosing the prior traning, but then letting the instructors and staff at the new school decide how to handle it. Might be a good idea to simply find a different style than TKD entirely, to eliminate any headaches.

 

[ks - learning to fly]

My dojang is affiliated with the “World Tae-Kwon-Do Federation”, headquarters at the Kukkiwon in Seoul, Korea.
When we pass our test, our Black Belt certificates are sent from Korea. If this is the case with your school, I
wouldn't be concerned about the wait - mine took about 4 months to arrive. I do - however - think the instructor
should be straightforward about the when and whereabouts though...

 

[Dirty Dog]

My dojang is affiliated with the “World Tae-Kwon-Do Federation”, headquarters at the Kukkiwon in Seoul, Korea.
When we pass our test, our Black Belt certificates are sent from Korea. If this is the case with your school, I
wouldn't be concerned about the wait - mine took about 4 months to arrive. I do - however - think the instructor
should be straightforward about the when and whereabouts though...

No, you're not. You're affiliated with the World Taekwondo HEADQUARTERS at the Kukkiwon.

 

[WaterGal]

As others have said - what organization/federation is the school affiliated with? If you don't know, you can usually find this information on your school's website and/or on a flag displayed in the school.

If it's a World Taekwondo Federation/Kukkiwon-style school, you can go to this page on the Kukkiwon website: Check for Poom/Dan, and enter your son's full name in all caps (you may have to try with and without a middle name), nationality and date of birth. If it returns a listing like "Your Kids Name, 1st Poom, #12345", then your kid is certified as a black belt. Whether or not you have the paper cert, that listing will be good enough for any other WTF/KKW school. If nothing turns up, then the teacher never sent in the application and is swindling you.

Other organizations may also have a feature on their website to look up the certification, or if not, you could contact their headquarters and ask. If a member school is taking money for certifications and not granting them (or worse, if the teacher is claiming to be a member and isn't), I'm sure the organization will be interested.

 

[Hanshi]

The idea of charging $500 for a child's test strikes me as "fishy". True, certificates don't mean much, in this case, except to a little boy who just gave his all. I awarded black belts only to those who could hold their own with a black belt adult on the mat; there were NO child black belts. Youngsters tested for and received a "junior black belt". My promotions were always backed by an organization. Unless a bonafide certificate arrives very soon, I'd take my son elsewhere. Phony teachers/school are a dime a dozen. One needs to ask the right questions when selecting a school and avoid any school where one gets a bad vibe.

 

[WaterGal]

I don't know about all TKD orgs, but Kukkiwon gives kids under 15 a rank of poom rather than dan, which is essentially a junior black belt. Some schools will indicate poom rank holders by giving them a "black" belt that's half red and half black and a black-lapel uniform that has a red stripe on the lapel.

As far as the cost.... I think it depends on the local market and what they get for the money? Where I'm at, $300-500 is typical for 1st dan/poom. We charge on the lower end of that, and that includes the KKW cert, WTF-approved black-lapel uniform, embroidered belt, a weapon, a big stack of boards to break, and some one-on-one prep. We still make some profit, but for us, most of the fee is expense. Another place down the road from us offers a school-only cert and no uniform or weapon and still charges $50 more than us, which I do think is questionable.