Cost of testing

[Rough Rider]

Not having the certificates issued when you passed the tests may (or may not) cause problems with getting them now - I'm unsure as to the procedure with retrospective applications. So even if you choose to stump up the cash you may only be able to get 1st dan.

I already asked about that, and was told that the procedure was as I stated earlier

I don't know how much the KKW certificate is, but I do know that if I want it I have to pay for 1st Dan, wait 1 year, pay for 2nd Dan, wait 2 more years and pay for 3rd Dan. From what I've read online, Skip-Dan isn't an option because you have to have at least a 1st Dan already.

When I said I didn't know how much it cost, I meant I couldn't remember the exact amount. It's one hundred and something per certificate.

 

[Rough Rider]

not saying the training isnt good, im just not a fan of charging a boat ton of money for everything.

I do think that the training is good.

 

[Rough Rider]

For the OP - did you at least get an in-house rank certificate from your instructor?

Yes, along with a new embroidered belt and a new uniform. (We have different colored stripes on the uniform collar for different Dan levels. This uniform can be worn at any time, but is required for tests and ceremonies. I also have several with a plain black collar.)

 

[pdg]

I already asked about that, and was told that the procedure was as I stated earlier

I missed that. So it is a case of no retrospective applications, you have to basically double up on the time (and continue to pay monthly I presume).

When I said I didn't know how much it cost, I meant I couldn't remember the exact amount. It's one hundred and something per certificate.

That's not necessarily bad for that bit - 75 (say) for the actual cert, plus (again, say) ~50 for the hour or so admin time (after currency conversion, that's about what I charge for work). I wouldn't disagree with that.


I might disagree with the actual test fee though...

 

[jobo]

I missed that. So it is a case of no retrospective applications, you have to basically double up on the time (and continue to pay monthly I presume).



That's not necessarily bad for that bit - 75 (say) for the actual cert, plus (again, say) ~50 for the hour or so admin time (after currency conversion, that's about what I charge for work). I wouldn't disagree with that.


I might disagree with the actual test fee though...

50 for putting your name on a piece of paper ?, It would need embossing in gold leaf to justify that!

 

[pdg]

50 for putting your name on a piece of paper ?, It would need embossing in gold leaf to justify that!

There's more to it than that.

You have to fill out the form, which means gathering a bit of info - then post it, then when the certificate arrives that's a bit more time to deal with it.

I can see that eating an hour easily.

 

[oftheherd1]

Would your teacher be willing to communicate with the KKW saying you have tested to 2nd (or soon 3rd Dan) and could he then request you be given 1st and maybe even 2nd Dan? I knew a gentleman who paid for his 4th Dan, then the teacher sold the school and left without filing for the 4th Dan. When he talked to the teacher who bought the school, the new teacher was upset, and agreed to contact the KKW for him. He got his 4th Dan.

Might be worth a try.

 

[Headhunter]

I'm currently a 2nd Dan in KKW style TKD. I'm scheduled to test for 3rd Dan later this year. I feel that I'm ready, but I'm stressed out about the money (The same thing happened with my previous tests.) The test costs $600. My 2nd Dan test was $500. I don't remember how much I paid for 1st Dan and Probationary, but they were expensive too. The price doesn't include a KKW certificate (that's extra).

I'm tempted to forget about and stay a 2nd Dan, but I've already invested a lot. See, at my school, a black belt must take 5 intermediate tests (earning tape stripes on the belt) before testing for the next Dan level. The intermediate tests cost $55, which is the same price as color belt testing. I have my 5 stripes, so I've already paid $275. I think I'm going to scrape together the $600, get my 3rd Dan and then never test again.

I'm also considering checking out other schools, but since I have no KKW certificate (I didn't pay the extra fee), I probably won't be able to transfer as a black belt. I'm also under contract until November.

Any advice would be appreciated.

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This is exactly why I've never cared for ranks. Even in legit schools belts are just a way for instructors to Rip off people and get a large sum of cash every 6 or so months. Let's be real a belt doesn't cost much to buy a certificate doesn't cost much to print so there's really no need for these ridiculous prices. I was asked before why I refused to test for black belt for years this is one of the reasons I knew the price would be over £100 and I'm not willing to pay that money for a belt simple as that. I've never been a rich guy and couldn't justify that money especially when it's a black belt and there's not much new material to learn after so my attitude was who cares

 

[Buka]

The whole Martial world has gone fricken' crazy.

 

[WaterGal]

Allegedly, about 75usd is what the kkw charge to issue a cert.

IIRC from when we did it last year, it's $90 for 1st dan, $120 for 2nd, and $150 for 3rd (and then goes up very steeply from there), plus a bank fee of maybe 5-10%. It's submitted via an online system on the Kukkiwon website, which is not the most user-friendly. I think usually it takes me about 10 minutes per person to enter the info and get the photo sized and cropped correctly.

 

[WaterGal]

For the OP - did you at least get an in-house rank certificate from your instructor?

For other KKW instructors - if you had a new student join your school who had an in-house rank from another KKW instructor, but had not paid for the KKW certificate, would you honor their rank (knowing that they had gone through the same test that could have gotten them KKW rank if they had just paid for the certificate)? Why or why not?

Well, we've had a number of black belts from other TKD systems (ITF, Joon Rhee, etc) join our school, and what we've done with them is to let them wear their black belt to class and come to the black belt classes. We expect them to learn our color belt curriculum and take a KKW 1st dan test whenever they're able, and then treat them as any other 1st dan.

If they learned KKW TKD and just.... didn't get any KKW certs at all, I'm not sure how we'd approach that from an advancement perspective. I think that the OP is right that you need to be a 1st dan before you can do a skip-dan test, and I think you have to have had enough time-in-rank for the ranks you want to skip. (So to skip from 1st to 3rd, you'd have to have had a 1st for at least 3 years.) Mr WaterGal and I would have to make a decision when we came across it, but spitballing, I think maybe... assuming they looked like they'd earned the rank, we might agree to file for their KKW 1st dan cert just "at cost" (just charging for the cert) pretty quickly, and then have them train and wait a year and see where things go.

(Edit: on a related topic to skip-dan testing, KKW also does transfer testing.... but I think you still have a certificate from a major TKD organization. So, I think, an ITF 3rd dan could go to a special test and become a KKW 3rd dan by showing they know the KKW curriculum up to that point.... but someone with just a school certificate could not.)

 

[Rough Rider]

WaterGal, can I ask how much you charge for tests? Also, can you give me some perspective on why the prices are set where they are?

 

[pdg]

IIRC from when we did it last year, it's $90 for 1st dan, $120 for 2nd, and $150 for 3rd (and then goes up very steeply from there), plus a bank fee of maybe 5-10%. It's submitted via an online system on the Kukkiwon website, which is not the most user-friendly. I think usually it takes me about 10 minutes per person to enter the info and get the photo sized and cropped correctly.

Obviously they've updated

 

[Dirty Dog]

For the OP - did you at least get an in-house rank certificate from your instructor?

For other KKW instructors - if you had a new student join your school who had an in-house rank from another KKW instructor, but had not paid for the KKW certificate, would you honor their rank (knowing that they had gone through the same test that could have gotten them KKW rank if they had just paid for the certificate)? Why or why not?

We've had people from other systems join our (Moo Duk Kwan) school. If they want to wear their old belt, that's fine. They just have to learn our curriculum before we will promote them any further. While we're primarily a Moo Duk Kwan school, we do offer KKW rank as an option. And it wouldn't matter if you wanted KKW or MDK certification; the protocol would be the same.

The KKW has, in the past, offered what I call assimilation rank to people who hold rank in related arts. They basically award you rank equivalent to your school rank. They have done this as a way to increase membership, and it's done with the stipulation that you're expected to learn (and teach) the KKW curriculum (although this is, obviously, unenforceable). That shouldn't be an issue for you, if you've been training in the KKW curriculum anyway. It doesn't sound like your own instructor is willing to pursue this route, but you might check around.

WaterGal, can I ask how much you charge for tests? Also, can you give me some perspective on why the prices are set where they are?

Probably because it's a commercial school, and they have bills to pay. In my area, commercial schools run $100-$150 a month (and there are some that are higher). I don't know their testing fees, but I do know that it's not uncommon to have mandatory testing (with no refund if you do not pass) and mandatory in-house tournaments.
Bottom line: a commercial school has to pay the bills. Including supporting the instructor(s). You can always find a non-commercial program. The flip side there is that most of us teaching in a non-commercial school have full time jobs as well. So we don't offer as many classes. Our program offers two 1-hour classes on Tuesday (which I cannot attend, due to my paying job), two on Thursday, and a 90-minute class on Saturday.

Something to consider...
Unless you're planning to open a school and teach, then promoting probably isn't necessary. If the money is a concern, don't test.

 

[Buka]

I have trained in a bootload of dojos. Both in my own systems, and in the dojos of countless friends and associates. Couldn't count them, can't even remember some of them.

None of them, not one, ever charged anyone to go through the hell of a test.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I have trained in a bootload of dojos. Both in my own systems, and in the dojos of countless friends and associates. Couldn't count them, can't even remember some of them.

None of them, not one, ever charged anyone to go through the hell of a test.

I think your experience is the exception, not the rule. I could well be wrong, but I have the impression that the vast majority of schools do charge for testing. My own experience is exactly the opposite of yours. I've never trained in a school that didn't charge for testing.

 

[oftheherd1]

I think your experience is the exception, not the rule. I could well be wrong, but I have the impression that the vast majority of schools do charge for testing. My own experience is exactly the opposite of yours. I've never trained in a school that didn't charge for testing.

The two schools I trained enough to qualify for promotion certainly did charge for testing, along with a fee for monthly training. I don't remember about the TKD, but the Hapkido I trained in, I felt the fees were quite reasonable.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Something to consider...
Unless you're planning to open a school and teach, then promoting probably isn't necessary. If the money is a concern, don't test.

Tangential thought that this gave me...I've had a black belt in one style for 8(ish?) years, and in another style for 3 years. Both instances I did not get the black belt by choice...in one school they just gave it to me one day, and in the other I came to class and was informed that me and the other person were testing for rank and teaching certificates. I don't know a lick of post-black belt material. I've always figured that there's enough pre-black belt material in any style I've practiced to keep me busy for a very long time.

 

[Flying Crane]

Tangential thought that this gave me...I've had a black belt in one style for 8(ish?) years, and in another style for 3 years. Both instances I did not get the black belt by choice...in one school they just gave it to me one day, and in the other I came to class and was informed that me and the other person were testing for rank and teaching certificates. I don't know a lick of post-black belt material. I've always figured that there's enough pre-black belt material in any style I've practiced to keep me busy for a very long time.

My experience has been that the best and most important material is taught in the early stages. The farther you progress, often the material becomes more questionable, as well as simply not necessary.

 

[skribs]

My experience has been that the best and most important material is taught in the early stages. The farther you progress, often the material becomes more questionable, as well as simply not necessary.

That depends on the teaching style. At our school, you learn the basic motion as a white belt, and that's often enough to drive people crazy. In a lot of cases, we don't give all the details (because it's too much to learn every detail of a roundhouse kick on your first session), and in some cases we actually teach the technique wrong at the start to get the kids used to following directions. What I mean by this is we teach a punch as just moving your arm, no pivoting on your rear foot or turning of your body, because the 4-5 year olds think that moving your foot means running forward and end up punching the person lined up in front of them.

In fact, I'll stand next to some of those kids and I'll do the technique as we expect them to do it - a punch with all arm movement. The reason is that at this point, getting them to follow directions is more important than the technique itself.

At my school, black belts have cleaned up their beginning techniques and most of the advanced techniques, but there is generally a pretty clear difference between our 1st degree black belts and our 2nd degree black belts. Our 3rd degree black belts are usually another big step up...for the month they have it before going off to college. (I will probably be the first person to stick around after getting my 3rd Dan since I started going to this school 5 years ago, as all the others have gone to college out of town shortly after).