Double Wrists Control

[Kung Fu Wang]

What will you do if your opponent just moves in and uses his

- left hand to grab on your right wrist from outside in (this can prevent your from punching him with your right arm),
- right hand to grab on your left wrist from outside in (this can prevent your from punching him with your left arm),
- leading leg to jam your leading leg (this can prevent your from kicking him with your leading leg)?

When this happens to you, you want to break away his grips, because you want to rotate your arms to against his thumb instead of his 4 fingers, your

- right arm can only rotate counter-clockwise,
- left arm can only rotate clockwise,

When you do that, your "front door" will completely open for his attack. This is a very aggressive strategy. Your opponent just moves in and takes away your striking ability (right punch, left punch, leading leg kick) and force you to play his grappling game no matter you like it or not. What will be your reaction?

 

[wingchun100]

Is he just holding on to my arms, or is he pushing/pulling in a certain direction?

 

[drop bear]

Break the grip with your knee. Slap their arm with your knee and pull the arm out. As a push pull grip break.

 

[Gnarlie]

Not sure what you're getting at here. Is your premise that such an attack mode is a) likely and b) effective?

Lastly, even though I have some concerns about how realistic the situation you describe is, there are many ways to manipulate the weakness of the hand joints beyond turning against the thumb. How about if the forearms are low, raising the forearms to guard the face. Or vice versa. Or small circling outwards. Or push and pull. Or small circling inward. etc etc.

Immediate answer: butt him.

Gnarlie

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Is he just holding on to my arms, or is he pushing/pulling in a certain direction?

He is pulling your arms. The counter force will make his body to move toward you.

Break the grip with your knee. Slap their arm with your knee and pull the arm out. As a push pull grip break.

Not that easy to use your knee if his leading leg shin bone is jamming on your leading leg shin bone.

 

[drop bear]

He is pulling your arms. The counter force will make his body to move toward you.


Not that easy to use your knee if his leading leg shin bone is jamming on your leading leg shin bone.

Yeah I got you.

You can pull the same stunt with your hands.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yVKDdc086zI

Why can't you switch so he looses that leg control?

 

[Steve]

Are you talking with fabric or grabbing my wrists? Fabric, such as with a gi, is frankly a lot more difficult. The question I have is, why are you letting someone grab your wrists? Your hands are like the most mobile, fastest part of your entire body. If there's something that a bad guy should have a very hard time doing, it's grabbing your wrists.

 

[mook jong man]

What will you do if your opponent just moves in and uses his

- left hand to grab on your right wrist from outside in (this can prevent your from punching him with your right arm),
- right hand to grab on your left wrist from outside in (this can prevent your from punching him with your left arm),
- leading leg to jam your leading leg (this can prevent your from kicking him with your leading leg)?

When this happens to you, you want to break away his grips, because you want to rotate your arms to against his thumb instead of his 4 fingers, your

- right arm can only rotate counter-clockwise,
- left arm can only rotate clockwise,

When you do that, your "front door" will completely open for his attack. This is a very aggressive strategy. Your opponent just moves in and takes away your striking ability (right punch, left punch, leading leg kick) and force you to play his grappling game no matter you like it or not. What will be your reaction?

Assuming this dude is not eating my punches as he is messing around trying to grab both my wrists.
I would just bring my elbow over and elbow strike the sternum , he has only got control of my wrists , not my upper arm , I will have a leverage advantage by rotating my elbow over the top of his wrists.
This usually results also in a broken wrist for the attacker unless they let go in time.

 

[drop bear]

Are you talking with fabric or grabbing my wrists? Fabric, such as with a gi, is frankly a lot more difficult. The question I have is, why are you letting someone grab your wrists? Your hands are like the most mobile, fastest part of your entire body. If there's something that a bad guy should have a very hard time doing, it's grabbing your wrists.

If you are striking and wrestling there are opportunities to hand fight a bit. I do it more than most of the guys in the gym. Because it is also a bit of practice for work.

I can catch them by confusing the guy between what is a punch. Where he will give me the arm and what is a grab where he shouldnt.

I have done double hand grabs and then punched them in the head with their own arm. Mostly because it is funny. But for a boxing guard it is a bit high percentage.

I will do that and then double leg them. Works quite well.

 

[wingchun100]

I would rotate my arms in the directions that you have indicated so I could bring my elbows into play.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Are you talking with fabric or grabbing my wrists? Fabric, such as with a gi, is frankly a lot more difficult. The question I have is, why are you letting someone grab your wrists? Your hands are like the most mobile, fastest part of your entire body. If there's something that a bad guy should have a very hard time doing, it's grabbing your wrists.

I'm talking about "no-gi" here.

When your arms is "on guard", and your opponent's both hands are coming from both sides, if you move your arms to prevent your arms from grabbing, you will let your "front door" open. If you try to still guard your head without moving your arms, your opponent's hands will meet your arms.

You can try this on your training partner 10 times and find out the succeed/failure ratio yourself.

 

[wingchun100]

I hear what you are saying...by that I mean I can visualize it. It's as if you know trouble is about to happen so you are holding your hands up as if to say, "Hey, man, I don't want any trouble." And while you are doing that, he grabs you.

 

[Gnarlie]

Why does it matter if your 'front door' is open if both his hands are engaged with your hands. You can force a release and retaliate yourself just as quickly as he can let go and retaliate. Especially if he is pulling you forward onto your headbutt. The actions he is taking to jam you are also jamming him. He has nothing free.

 

[drop bear]

Why does it matter if your 'front door' is open if both his hands are engaged with your hands. You can force a release and retaliate yourself just as quickly as he can let go and retaliate. Especially if he is pulling you forward onto your headbutt.

Not really you are a fraction of a second slower.

If I wanted a double leg or under hooks I could probably get them before the guy could counter.

Regardless as a rule of thumb you should always treat arm control like poison.

Some more stuff on catch wrestling. They are kind of the go to guys for hand fighting.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gLoOX58AE9g

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Why does it matter if your 'front door' is open if both his hands are engaged with your hands. You can force a release and retaliate yourself just as quickly as he can let go and retaliate. Especially if he is pulling you forward onto your headbutt. The actions he is taking to jam you are also jamming him. He has nothing free.

When your opponent's hand grabs on your wrist, he is one step ahead of you. The moment that he pulls himself toward you, he will leg go his grips and obtain the "clinch" that he is looking for. When you try to break his grip, he will let go his grip, slide his arm under your shoulder, and enter.

In the following clip, you can see that to change from "wrist grip" into "under hook" can be very fast.

 

[drop bear]

And just some catch wrestling in situation. So people get an idea of how the hand fighting factors in.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfyEP1wm9G8

 

[RTKDCMB]

Without actually seeing it visually I can suggest 2 options off hand, 1) pull him in and headbutt and 2) use both of your hands to pull him in and lift your hands up, hook your lead leg behind his and push him over. Of course grabbing one arm of a mobile opponent is difficult enough without getting hit, let alone both so it is not a very likely situation but if you are concerned about then I would suggest you experiment a bit and see what works.

 

[mook jong man]

When your opponent's hand grabs on your wrist, he is one step ahead of you. The moment that he pulls himself toward you, he will leg go his grips and obtain the "clinch" that he is looking for. When you try to break his grip, he will let go his grip, slide his arm under your shoulder, and enter.

In the following clip, you can see that to change from "wrist grip" into "under hook" can be very fast.

Actually he is not one step ahead of you.
You should know as a guy that claims to have trained in Wing Chun about a little thing called "Forward Force" or "Springy Force".

That force similar in principle to the spring loaded action of a bamboo branch that is being bent back , soon as there is no counter force , eg the grab being released the hands will spring forward and strike through the centerline.

Wrist grip to undertook may indeed be very fast , but I don't believe it will be faster than a spring loaded strike that only has to be released.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Without actually seeing it visually I can suggest 2 options off hand, 1) pull him in and headbutt and 2) use both of your hands to pull him in and lift your hands up, hook your lead leg behind his and push him over. Of course grabbing one arm of a mobile opponent is difficult enough without getting hit, let alone both so it is not a very likely situation but if you are concerned about then I would suggest you experiment a bit and see what works.

I will make some clips this coming Sunday. The headbutt is always a 2 edges sword. You can do that you your opponent. Your opponent can also do that to you.

 

[RTKDCMB]

I will make some clips this coming Sunday. The headbutt is always a 2 edges sword. You can do that you your opponent. Your opponent can also do that to you.

The trick is to do it first.