Double Promotions

[Fluffy]

My problem with fast tracking students are; 1. you tend to have low quality black belts, 2. the students tend to burn out quickly, and 3. you loose general respect from your student base if they see a person becoming a black belt in 1/2 the time. Just my opinion......I have not yet met a student "off the street" who I would feel comfortable fast tracking. I have brought in a student or two who have earned higher rank in other schools, and let them keep their belt level. But that would not be the same.

 

[IcemanSK]

My problem with fast tracking students are; 1. you tend to have low quality black belts, 2. the students tend to burn out quickly, and 3. you loose general respect from your student base if they see a person becoming a black belt in 1/2 the time. Just my opinion......I have not yet met a student "off the street" who I would feel comfortable fast tracking. I have brought in a student or two who have earned higher rank in other schools, and let them keep their belt level. But that would not be the same.

Your point is well taken, sir. I think your statement about folks who have earned rank at other schools (or perhaps other arts) is the key. I'd venture to guess that folks like that are more than likely the folks that are double promoted. That's just my guess.

 

[James Kovacich]

I think "fast tracking" is a major problem in the "strip mall day care" types of school. A TV broadcaster over the weekend announced that she will be a brown belt next month and a blacklbelt by the end oif the year. She's had her "popular" Sacramento instructor on TV several times.

So she'll be brownbelt for maybe 6 months. Thats the problem. To much commercialism. Schools have it all laid out for the student. All they have to do is show up.

10 levels to black belt is not only excessive but unnecesary. Some schools have only white and blackbelts. Some have white, brown and black. With my Gung Fu instructor you're either an instructor or your not.

If a student is slow or they are a kid, 10 kyus is acceptable. But as long as there is a need to collect those test fees every 2-3 months fasttracking is going to exist.

Double and even triple promoting isn't the problem. I generally only use 3 or 4 of the kyus depending on the student.

10 kyus are a made up part of the arts that happen to fit well with McDojoism.

 

[IcemanSK]

I think "fast tracking" is a major problem in the "strip mall day care" types of school. A TV broadcaster over the weekend announced that she will be a brown belt next month and a blacklbelt by the end oif the year. She's had her "popular" Sacramento instructor on TV several times.

So she'll be brownbelt for maybe 6 months. Thats the problem. To much commercialism. Schools have it all laid out for the student. All they have to do is show up.

10 levels to black belt is not only excessive but unnecesary. Some schools have only white and blackbelts. Some have white, brown and black. With my Gung Fu instructor you're either an instructor or your not.

If a student is slow or they are a kid, 10 kyus is acceptable. But as long as there is a need to collect those test fees every 2-3 months fasttracking is going to exist.

Double and even triple promoting isn't the problem. I generally only use 3 or 4 of the kyus depending on the student.

10 kyus are a made up part of the arts that happen to fit well with McDojoism.

McDojoism (I like that word) aside I think there are exceptional (& rare) cases where double promoting someone is legit. I think it can be done in rare instances without being in danger of being a McDojo.

 

[James Kovacich]

I promote as approriate for the situation. I was emphasizing about the schools with tests (and fee's) every 2-3 months and and how they are differant than those that the "emphasis" is on training.

 

[Grenadier]

Let's look at this in a more detailed manner. Two things that people seem to look down upon are having, say, 10 kyu ranks, as well as double promotions.

Is having 10 kyu ranks excessive? Maybe so. After all, in my previous post, I did mention that there are still some styles that only use a limited number of kyu ranks, such as going directly from white to green to brown, and then to black. Many of these styles are quite successful, and produce fine karate-ka.

However, there are honestly some times where having those 10 kyu ranks are a good thing. Some children might be slower learners than others, yet would not really benefit from being held back at white belt. Some simply can't take in that much information at one time, and having those 10 kyu ranks gives you the flexibility to give them something. I've had a couple of children with learning disabilities turn out to be decent karate-ka, even if they did take a significantly longer period of time than their peers did.

At the same time, double promotions (or even, yes, triple promotions in the case of a white belt) can render the need for 10 kyu ranks all but unnecessary in the cases where a student is dedicated to training, and a capable talent. The way I see it, just because a system does have 10 kyu ranks, does not necessarily mean that all 10 must be employed for every student there. Different strokes for different folks, naturally, and some are going to be better than others. The way I see it, if someone has demonstrated the knowledge and proficiency to get a higher rank than what he was supposed to test for, then I see no reason why he shouldn't get the higher rank.

Where I DO disapprove of the 10 kyu system, is where the chief instructor forces everyone to go through all 10 kyu ranks, regardless of how well they have done. In my opinion, there's no good to hold back capable students if the need is simply not there.

I will also certainly disapprove of the use of double promotions when they are not merited.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

McDojoism (I like that word) aside I think there are exceptional (& rare) cases where double promoting someone is legit. I think it can be done in rare instances without being in danger of being a McDojo.

Most of the "McDojos" I've seen love to make sure everyone goes through all the ranks. More testing fees that way. But I guess that would differ from school to school. Just my two cents.

 

[James Kovacich]

Let's look at this in a more detailed manner. Two things that people seem to look down upon are having, say, 10 kyu ranks, as well as double promotions.

Is having 10 kyu ranks excessive? Maybe so. After all, in my previous post, I did mention that there are still some styles that only use a limited number of kyu ranks, such as going directly from white to green to brown, and then to black. Many of these styles are quite successful, and produce fine karate-ka.

However, there are honestly some times where having those 10 kyu ranks are a good thing. Some children might be slower learners than others, yet would not really benefit from being held back at white belt. Some simply can't take in that much information at one time, and having those 10 kyu ranks gives you the flexibility to give them something. I've had a couple of children with learning disabilities turn out to be decent karate-ka, even if they did take a significantly longer period of time than their peers did.

At the same time, double promotions (or even, yes, triple promotions in the case of a white belt) can render the need for 10 kyu ranks all but unnecessary in the cases where a student is dedicated to training, and a capable talent. The way I see it, just because a system does have 10 kyu ranks, does not necessarily mean that all 10 must be employed for every student there. Different strokes for different folks, naturally, and some are going to be better than others. The way I see it, if someone has demonstrated the knowledge and proficiency to get a higher rank than what he was supposed to test for, then I see no reason why he shouldn't get the higher rank.

Where I DO disapprove of the 10 kyu system, is where the chief instructor forces everyone to go through all 10 kyu ranks, regardless of how well they have done. In my opinion, there's no good to hold back capable students if the need is simply not there.

I will also certainly disapprove of the use of double promotions when they are not merited.

I think we are on the same page.

 

[IcemanSK]

Most of the "McDojos" I've seen love to make sure everyone goes through all the ranks. More testing fees that way. But I guess that would differ from school to school. Just my two cents.

Jeff:

I agree there are a lot of McDojos. Heck, in my neck-o-the-woods there are a few that charge $100-$150 a month! But in a good stand-up honest school, I see nothing wrong with occasionally double-promoting a deserving student. I've yet to do it in my school (cuz its a month old) but I could see it for a teen or adult student who had high rank in another art. But not for a 7 year old who's dad has a big wallet.