Don't sing it, Bring it!!!! A challenge!

[Josh Oakley]

"My buddies, my girl and my brother all standing in all as I started tearing my costume off of me in seconds.."

So here, I'm confused...his buddies are there to watch him start tearing off his costume, but the OP thinks that this is a 2 on 1 situation...I don't see that. First, "buddies" is plural, meaning that there is more than 1 buddy with him and his girl, so now, in the OP's group, we have no less than 3 males and 1 female, while there are only 2 "attackers" This doesn't sound like imminent danger for the OP to me....

Let's look at the sober post:

My brother who was the DD (designated driver) was already in the car, waiting as my gf/ my sister in law and I were walking to the car

If it's me and two women, and two guys getting half naked and ready to fight, I'm going on the defensive as well.

"Both said it was on to me.. I said bring it.. and next thing I said was " u TWo need to recognize as i quickly clicked open my tac folding blade.. OOOPS!!! but at this time it was GAME ON!!"

So, the OP starts by saying, just before this, that they should just leave it alone and go home...but then comes back with "bring it"...yeah, that's trying to calm a situation. And then, the OP proceeds to pull a weapon...now, at this point, he has already put both of these guys on their collective asses...what is the weapon for?

"in my mind I was gonna cut both of them no matter what.."

Yep. That's what it was for. So the OP's pissed at this point, and is now going to "cut them both no matter what".

Jimmy Woo (of Kung Fu San Soo) once had a trucker trying to fight him, he flipped the switch and said, "Too bad you die today!" with determination and the trucker backed down. Anyone who knows Mr Woo's history knows Jimmy would have done it, too, had the trucker not backed down. But the words and the intent ended the fight.

In kailat's situation, the words, knife, and intent ended the fight, and the fight would have gone on longer, had he not done that. If he had not had a mind to cut them it would have shown in his eyes, and be viewed as a weakness. Anytime you deploy a blade, be it sword, knife, sharp piece of glass, your mind should be on the kill or you'd be better off not deploying it.

But the reality of the situation is if it really was "no matter what" their backing down would not have stopped him from cutting them. So yeah, you're being overly harsh. Match the words to the actions.

"the two outnumbered me, and in my eyes it was deadly force
issue.."

But we just figured out a few lines ago that he, in fact, was not outnumbered...

still going by the sober post.

"When the blade came out the two quickly changed thier tunes and backed down.. "

At this point, I can see to guys backing down when a blade is pulled...they actually did the smart thing. If only that had been the intent on pulling the weapon...but I digress.

If you pull a weapon with intent of deterrance, you're not intending to use it, and it's a liability. I'd be on his case if he drew with the intent of not using.

"i put the knife up and said " U need to recognize im not your punk *** white boy take your attitude down the street to someone you can punk out.. cause im not that guy"...."

Something I can give credit on here...he puts the knife up when the "attackers" back off. But then, he's gotta ruin it by spewing a macho, cheesy line.

Ok, I'll give you that.

"The one guy quickly came to me as he was sorry and tried to hug me.. As I was not feeling that cause ididn't know him.. He quickly caught a right hook to the jaw I did not trust him..Ipunched him straight in the face.. I told him " Im not your friend, your pal.. GO AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!Ithink he realized quickly I was not Messing w/ him anymore.. ""

I can understand not wanting the guy that just tried to attack you try to hug you...but does this really warrant a cheap shot? I mean, come on...the guy has already been put on his *** and then had a knife pulled on him...of course he's sorry he messed with him. The OP is now the "alpha male" in the situation. Good for him. Be wary of a cheap attack, but don't deliver one first...

Like I said in a previous post, he should have used a hand. But at the same time, I'm willing to give him leeway on this, because I've had the cheap shot done on me. He likely gave cause for these two idiots to think twice before getting into another fight. Good stuff from my vantage point.

"i was ready to kill both of them..."

And this, sir, is the key to it all. Sure, he showed restraint in not killing them. But we see where his intentions were. All these 2 guys did was talk a bunch of junk. They didn't try to kill him or his girl or his friends. They were just acting like drunk turds...which is exactly how the OP was acting...

Again, I won't fault him for being ready to kill. If his intent was to kill them no matter what, he would have. His intentionwas surviving and protecting his girlfriend and his sister-in-law. Two on one would probably be able to be done without killing, but the chaos factor comes in when you're protecting someone, more so when you're protecting two someones. He wasn't intending to kill them. He was ready to kill them. That's no minor discrepancy.

Again, if his intention were lethal I'd side with you. But were his intention lethal, his actions would be necessarily lethal as well. he had a perfect chance to kill the hugger, and punched him.

If you intend to survive, you have to be ready to kill if necessary or you may not survive. Anybody teaching something else is cheating his students. And possibly sending them to slaughter.

I still stand behind kailat.

So the question here, I guess, is this:

Is the OP any better than the 2 attackers??

...

 

[Tez3]

Josh, you may also want to ask yourself if any of what has been posted by the OP is true after what he has said.

What the OP has written, taken at face value, when he was drunk has more bearing on what he was thinking at the time. Posting when he's sober he's had time to reflect and correct any bad impressions he's given. You can't go by the 'sober' posts, he was drunk when the incident occurred. It was his state of mind and his actions when drunk that are under scrutiny, what he later says when sober is not the point.

IMO he was wrong and aggravated a situation that may have not originally turned out to be violent. Being prepared for violence is fine, beng prepared to defend family and loved ones is fine, acting the aggressor because you're drunk and someones talking pisses you off is not fine.

 

[BrandonLucas]

Josh,

Were he sober, all of what you said would be valid. What I'm pointing out is that if he were thinking with a clear head and truly didn't want to be in an altercation, none of what was posted would have happened.

Also, I don't really agree with being ready to kill if you choose to pull a weapon. I agree with being ready to use the weapon, yes, but kill, no. And I still don't see the reason why he felt he had to bring it out in the first place. He effectively dealt with both of those guys already...even if they had attacked him, I'm quite sure he could have fended them off without too much trouble from what he described.

And let's take a look at what could have happened there...the OP had no way of knowing what state of mind those guys were in. He was lucky they reacted the way they did...they could have reacted like most other drunk macho guys would have in that situation and charged him anyway, despite the fact that he had a weapon. And then what? He kills the guy? Over what? That is what I define as senseless violence.

And you make a semi-valid point about the cheapshot thing...sure, he had the opportunity to kill him, and he didn't, instead cheapshotting him. What I'm saying here is that there was no need in striking the guy.

Really, that's the key to it all. No matter what the other guys said, there really was no need for any of that to happen. And then, once it did, and the opportunity for everything to end presented itself, the OP got in a cheapshot on a guy that was backing down.

Now, this is all assuming that the post has the correct information, as Tez pointed out. It could be very possible that the OP was typing what happened in the middle of an adrenaline dump, and what was typed was a combination of what did happen and what could have happened. But, all we have to go on is what was written...we are not able to see what the OP's thoughts were when typing the post.

Also, going from the sober post, his brother was the DD. DD stands for designated driver. A designated driver is usually sober. So where was that guy during all of this? He didn't seem to feel the need to jump in the middle of an altercation waiting to happen, so that makes me wonder why the OP was in the situation to begin with. Could it be that he himself was just waiting on something to happen? We will never truly know the answer to that, since we can't see in his head.

I mean, we've all been there before...you've had a great day; you're celebrating it by having a few drinks, which get you feeling pretty good, and then some drunk turd has to ruin your fun by making a scene in front of your buddies and your girl. Are you going to back down and risk looking like a punk? No....you don't want to be made fun of....

That's pretty much how I read it. Maybe that's not what really happened, as Tez said...I don't know. I wasn't there. But going from what was posted, that's what I get out of it.

I don't feel like I'm being too harsh on the guy, either. What I said a moment ago about senseless violence goes against everything I have learned through the martial arts. In fact, one of the reasons I even started training in TKD at all was because of people who react that way, without any common sense.

Another good point that Tez made was that he actually posted that hoping others would learn how to handle a situation from his post. I learned how not to handle the situation from it...but I sincerely hope that noone tries to emulate what he did.

 

[Josh Oakley]

I agree to a point. One thing I'd point out is the DD was already in the car. my guess is that he probably didn't see it. But like you, I wasn't there. And I've already said it would be better to drink at home, so we agree there. I'll even agree that it was a little excessive. A little.

I think the difference we have stems from a different philosophical aproach from our respective backgrounds. In San Soo, and in the Army, and in Shaolin Kempo, I learned that if you draw a knife, be ready to use a knife, and if you use a knife, someone's going to the hospital, or getting killed. If you cannot psychologically cope with that, you should not bring a knife.

I'd agree to a certain extent if we were talking about weapons as a general topic. But it's a knife. If you're not prepared to kill with a knife, leave the thing at home because it will likely kill you.

 

[BrandonLucas]

I agree to a point. One thing I'd point out is the DD was already in the car. my guess is that he probably didn't see it. But like you, I wasn't there. And I've already said it would be better to drink at home, so we agree there. I'll even agree that it was a little excessive. A little.

I think the difference we have stems from a different philosophical aproach from our respective backgrounds. In San Soo, and in the Army, and in Shaolin Kempo, I learned that if you draw a knife, be ready to use a knife, and if you use a knife, someone's going to the hospital, or getting killed. If you cannot psychologically cope with that, you should not bring a knife.

I'd agree to a certain extent if we were talking about weapons as a general topic. But it's a knife. If you're not prepared to kill with a knife, leave the thing at home because it will likely kill you.

I think I've been looking at what you're saying about that incorrectly...I do agree that if you're going to bring a knife to a fight, you should be mentally prepared to accept the consequences of bringing the knife, or else just leave it at home.

The thing is, I just don't see where the knife was needed in this situation. He had already taken care of the attackers once without trouble, and probably could have done it again.

And even beyond that, it could have ended by him getting in his car and leaving them to talk trash to his taillights. That would have been the best solution. I was just taught that you don't use the physical part of your training to end situations like the one described in the OP, you use the mental part of your training.

 

[Tez3]

The OP has himself posted up that none of what he wrote might be true and he was perhaps making it up for the sake of having a discussion on here. All many people are seeing is that he was attacked by two men whereas if you read it closely you will find he wasn't attacked at all, he had two guys who annoyed him with their talk....he didn't say what they were saying it could have been aggressive or it could have just been drunks burbling. Then he says one guy was coming towards him so he hit him, then he hit the other guy. One guy tried to apologise so he hit him again.

He says his brother was standing beside him then says his brother was in the car. He doesn't say at any point he was in fear of his life or he was afraid for his GF and brother, he says he was pisssed off with the two drunks so he hit them then pullled a knife on them.Then starts crowing rascist rubbish. he was the aggressor not the two guys who were probably just being a nuisance, as Brandon points out getting in the car would have been the sensible thing to do.

I've read a great many statements in my career and this clearly doesn't add up, neither the drunk account nor the sober account.
Ladies and gentleman I'm afraid I think the OP is yanking our chains, here, he said himself that maybe it didn't happen or that it could have been something he saw.

 

[BrandonLucas]

The OP has himself posted up that none of what he wrote might be true and he was perhaps making it up for the sake of having a discussion on here. All many people are seeing is that he was attacked by two men whereas if you read it closely you will find he wasn't attacked at all, he had two guys who annoyed him with their talk....he didn't say what they were saying it could have been aggressive or it could have just been drunks burbling. Then he says one guy was coming towards him so he hit him, then he hit the other guy. One guy tried to apologise so he hit him again.

He says his brother was standing beside him then says his brother was in the car. He doesn't say at any point he was in fear of his life or he was afraid for his GF and brother, he says he was pisssed off with the two drunks so he hit them then pullled a knife on them.Then starts crowing rascist rubbish. he was the aggressor not the two guys who were probably just being a nuisance, as Brandon points out getting in the car would have been the sensible thing to do.

I've read a great many statements in my career and this clearly doesn't add up, neither the drunk account nor the sober account.
Ladies and gentleman I'm afraid I think the OP is yanking our chains, here, he said himself that maybe it didn't happen or that it could have been something he saw.

I agree. Much of what was said doesn't add up...the one thing it has done is start a discussion about the situation.

 

[Tez3]

I agree. Much of what was said doesn't add up...the one thing it has done is start a discussion about the situation.

Thats true and that's always a good thing!! :uhyeah:

 

[Carol]

Or it may be some furtive backtracking after the OP realized that posting on the internet at 2am about a preventable drunken incident with weapons on Halloween night was not the wisest thing to do.

 

[Tez3]

Or it may be some furtive backtracking after the OP realized that posting on the internet at 2am about a preventable drunken incident with weapons on Halloween night was not the wisest thing to do.

Mmm... like a friend of mine who when drunk texted his ex! The look on his face though when he'd realised next morning what he'd written was a picture!
Stay away from computers and mobile phones when drunk!!!!

 

[SA_BJJ]

Does this make me an idiot?

Survey says:::::YES!

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

-Brian R. VanCise
-MartialTalk Super Moderator-

 

[billybybose]

Why did'nt kilat flash his badge instead of a knife?Why does he have a knife instead of a gun?What if the bg s were hard cases instead of barflies?The fourth stupid is don't bring a knife to a gun fight.Why is a guy with a possible traumatic stress disorder allowed to be a sworn officer.Look at the title of his thread "dont sing it ,bring it".Alcohol brings to the surface whats hidden deeper and this guy seems to have issues.What happens when kilat parties down on New Years eve and has a six pack instead of four and spearhands some other reveler in the throat?What happens when the revelers lawyer finds kilats thread and sues mt for not reporting a ticking time bomb?Teachers have to teach self-control or this is what you get.Without the do all you have are thugs.