Dojang Expulsion Transgressions

[Archtkd]

Dojang owners/instructors: In this tough economy when every member counts what types of transgression would you consider expulsion worthy?

Please cite serious cases for which you have refused to accept a new member or one which has recently led you to threw out an existing member. I am usually a very patient person, but I am considering asking a current member to leave our dojang for the type of refusal to adopt that is mentioned in another thread started by Dancigalone. This member's general attitude borders on rudeness, which is affecting adult class cohesion, morale and safe practice.

 

[granfire]

I am speaking strictly as a customer:

One person can poison the atmosphere. Considering I am paying to go to the school to have a good time, I don't want extra stress that I can have at home/work for free.

That means if the disruptions are big enough or carry over an extended time you might lose more customers by not parting ways with a disruptive influence than what your losses are kicking one person out.

 

[Carol]

But that's the point of putting students under contract; so they cannot leave so easily.

 

[dancingalone]

In general, I would kick out someone, zero tolerance, for:

• stealing
• sexual harassment
• bringing drugs or showing up in a drugged/drunk state to the dojo
• intentionally hurting another student

Other offenses would be on a case by case basis. If someone contributing to an environment non-conducive for learning either intentionally or unintentionally, I would give them a '3 strikes and you're out' talk.

 

[granfire]

But that's the point of putting students under contract; so they cannot leave so easily.

But even if they pay, they won't be back or recommend you.

 

[Archtkd]

But that's the point of putting students under contract; so they cannot leave so easily.

We don't do contracts

 

[ATC]

In general, I would kick out someone, zero tolerance, for:

• stealing
• sexual harassment
• bringing drugs or showing up in a drugged/drunk state to the dojo
• intentionally hurting another student

Other offenses would be on a case by case basis. If someone contributing to an environment non-conducive for learning either intentionally or unintentionally, I would give them a '3 strikes and you're out' talk.

Ditto.

 

[Manny]

I want to ask you something else. Let's supose you kick out someone for the things you have mentioned, would you remove your patch (dojang patch) from his/her dobok? I ask you because this guy/gal in a rabid state of mind (becase he/she was kick out) could use your patch to do something to hurt all the hard work you have do trought the years in your dojo/dojang.

For example when a soldier or sailor is kick out of the army/navy their insignias are taken off his uniform.

Manny

 

[ATC]

I want to ask you something else. Let's supose you kick out someone for the things you have mentioned, would you remove your patch (dojang patch) from his/her dobok? I ask you because this guy/gal in a rabid state of mind (becase he/she was kick out) could use your patch to do something to hurt all the hard work you have do trought the years in your dojo/dojang.

For example when a soldier or sailor is kick out of the army/navy their insignias are taken off his uniform.

Manny

Good point.

 

[Tez3]

I want to ask you something else. Let's supose you kick out someone for the things you have mentioned, would you remove your patch (dojang patch) from his/her dobok? I ask you because this guy/gal in a rabid state of mind (becase he/she was kick out) could use your patch to do something to hurt all the hard work you have do trought the years in your dojo/dojang.

For example when a soldier or sailor is kick out of the army/navy their insignias are taken off his uniform.

Manny

Here they just hand their uniforms back.

Probably better not to have patches in the first place, people will always leave sometimes under a cloud sometimes not so you always have that problem.

 

[miguksaram]

In general, I would kick out someone, zero tolerance, for:

• stealing
• sexual harassment
• bringing drugs or showing up in a drugged/drunk state to the dojo
• intentionally hurting another student

Other offenses would be on a case by case basis. If someone contributing to an environment non-conducive for learning either intentionally or unintentionally, I would give them a '3 strikes and you're out' talk.

Here is a scenario right withing those confines. I have a parent who has from time to time shown up drunk. It got to the point where I had to tell him to go home and call his wife up to pick up the kid. A few of those times he has been disruptive with other parents. Some have asked if they can switch class times so not to be exposed to him. So do you ban just the dad from showing up in hopes that the mom can bring the student? Which in this case is very difficult of the mom due to siblings that she also has to cater to. Or do you just do away with the problem entirely and remove the student?

We have already talked to the dad a couple of times about his behavior.

 

[dancingalone]

Here is a scenario right withing those confines. I have a parent who has from time to time shown up drunk. It got to the point where I had to tell him to go home and call his wife up to pick up the kid. A few of those times he has been disruptive with other parents. Some have asked if they can switch class times so not to be exposed to him. So do you ban just the dad from showing up in hopes that the mom can bring the student? Which in this case is very difficult of the mom due to siblings that she also has to cater to. Or do you just do away with the problem entirely and remove the student?

We have already talked to the dad a couple of times about his behavior.

That's a tough situation. I'd talk to both the mom to see if she could take over the transportation duties, although I imagine she's already under great strain at home and the end result would be the kid stops attending anyway. Perhaps there is someone at the dojo who lives in their neighborhood they could car pool with?

In the end, it may be that the dad needs to be banned regardless of the fallout for the child. It's not fair to the other students for him to be around.

 

[Stac3y]

We've had a situation in which one parent was banned, but the children continued. I personally didn't agree with the reason the parent was banned, but I'm not going to get into that.

 

[granfire]

Here is a scenario right withing those confines. I have a parent who has from time to time shown up drunk. It got to the point where I had to tell him to go home and call his wife up to pick up the kid. A few of those times he has been disruptive with other parents. Some have asked if they can switch class times so not to be exposed to him. So do you ban just the dad from showing up in hopes that the mom can bring the student? Which in this case is very difficult of the mom due to siblings that she also has to cater to. Or do you just do away with the problem entirely and remove the student?

We have already talked to the dad a couple of times about his behavior.

That's a tough situation. I'd talk to both the mom to see if she could take over the transportation duties, although I imagine she's already under great strain at home and the end result would be the kid stops attending anyway. Perhaps there is someone at the dojo who lives in their neighborhood they could car pool with?

In the end, it may be that the dad needs to be banned regardless of the fallout for the child. It's not fair to the other students for him to be around.

You need to keep your school clear of this parent.
You will lose other students, because being around a drunk is not fun when you are sober.

We would not have that problem the franchise rule state no tobacco or alcohol on the premises...no drunks...

I agree you might lose that student. Still better losing one than many.

I also agree, there are bigger problems, but those are not yours to deal with (and be glad about it)

 

[terryl965]

I have had a parent in the past show up drunk and I have ask them to leave, my school my rules. There are plenty of places for them to take there child.

On another note has anyone ever let someone you have kicked out back into there school, in my twice doing it, it was a bad decission. Should have left them go somewhere else, some people just cannot seem to change there stripes no matter what.

 

[ForeverStudent]

My teacher learned me next:

Taekwondo isn't just a sport. It is a philosophy, it's much deeper thing. Taekwondo dojang, it's instructors and owners / masters should have a goal not just to learn student tuls and kicks and fights and breakings and so on, but also to help him mentally grow, to help him and to try to learn him of proper living and behavior.

Dojang also should be upbringing institution. My teacher, never, never, raised his arms from bad students, in dojang as outside of the dojang. If everybody just do that, what person will society get?

There comes people in our club, from variety of reasons, but many of them comes because in other club they were unpolite or worse. We never (i am assistant to master) take student as he is, and then kick him if we don't like it. It's no good. We do everything to show him the way, to rebuild his life path and behavior, we try to do some upbringing correction. My masters so often helps students, finding them a job, taking care of them being good in school, and so on, because many parents don't do so.

Every bad or wrong upbringed person who camed to our club becamed good and polite people. There offcourse been cases where we couldn't help.

My shortly point is, don't kick out unpolite and wrong upbringed students, learn them another way. Ain't it what martial art is, in between?

Dojangs and master which don't try to do this simply ain't real martial arts master, no matter what they achieved.

I respect what i learned from my master and i will always do it that way.

 

[StudentCarl]

Here is a scenario right withing those confines. I have a parent who has from time to time shown up drunk. It got to the point where I had to tell him to go home and call his wife up to pick up the kid. A few of those times he has been disruptive with other parents. Some have asked if they can switch class times so not to be exposed to him. So do you ban just the dad from showing up in hopes that the mom can bring the student? Which in this case is very difficult of the mom due to siblings that she also has to cater to. Or do you just do away with the problem entirely and remove the student?

We have already talked to the dad a couple of times about his behavior.

The dad is publicly intoxicated and may be driving drunk (you don't mention how he's delivering the student). If dad is driving, he's risking the life of his child. I suggest you call the police the next time you see him publicly intoxicated, especially if he's driving or rude. I would talk with mom to see if safer transportation is possible, as your school is an important positive influence on the child. I think you should keep the kid if possible.

 

[IcemanSK]

In general, I would kick out someone, zero tolerance, for:

• stealing
• sexual harassment
• bringing drugs or showing up in a drugged/drunk state to the dojo
• intentionally hurting another student

Other offenses would be on a case by case basis. If someone contributing to an environment non-conducive for learning either intentionally or unintentionally, I would give them a '3 strikes and you're out' talk.

That would be my list as well. If a student poisons the atmosphere of the class, they shouldn't be there. No matter what they're paying. The class (& other students) shouldn't have to suffer for someone else's bad behavior.

 

[bluewaveschool]

I don't have to deal with most any of that kind of thing, because the Y kicks those people out the door long before they make it to my little end of the building. The only worry I have is if my students are using what I teach to be bullies. We've never had that happen with any of the children, just 2 adults. Both of which took gloved fist to face. It works wonders.

 

[bluewaveschool]

I agree with Dancingalone's list though