Do you know this guy in the video? I bet you do

[Tez3]

MMA stands for Mixed Martial Arts, which to me can be any combination of Martial Arts in the world. To me it is a term for a collection of styles rather than a single individual style. Other people only see MMA as the very small selection of styles you see in UFC and MMA tournaments. As to the topic not being discussed here, I believe issues regarding respect of other's art should be discussed, as there is too much friction and animosity between the different styles, and especially between MMA fighters and Traditional Martial Artists. Ignoring these issues isn't going to make them go away, and I believe that as long as personal gripes and egos are kept out of it, there is no harm in discussing this.

Gosh after all these years in MMA I've only just found out what MMA is...wow.

Actually if you really want to discuss it you are incorrect when you say a 'small selection' of martial arts there is in reality just about every style used in MMA competitions, I can expand this...again, if you wish.
Fraud busting is against the rules here precisely to stop the slagging off of people and styles. What is being done here is fraud busting, calling these guys out, and of course as they are 'fraud busting' they too shouldn't be on here.
If you are going to perpetuate the so called MMA/TMA argument then perhaps that too would be better done elsewhere because we have enough people here who think only MMA and BJJ are the answer to everything which of course causes rancour. For the record I am MMA and TMA, with many years experience in both.

 

[Kickboxer101]

Going back to the original topic, I don't mind the guys in the video having opinions on the other styles of Martial Arts, but the way they speak and present their arguments is quite frankly disrespectful and ignorant. It's not like they say "We believe that [insert style here] is not good for self-defense because [insert reason here]." They more often than not just say "[insert style here] lovely sucks and all people who practice it are idiots and/or fake Martial Artists." They aren't presenting opinions in this, they are talking as if what they say is simple fact. That is what I hate, especially from 2 guys who have a very limited understanding of Martial Arts. I mean, just look at their "top 10 Martial Arts" video, where their number one pick is MMA......That just says it all really. News flash! MMA is not a style, it is purely a term used to describe anyone who fights using multiple different styles. I could combine Hung Gar with Taekwondo and that would be MMA.

And yes Tez3, I am going to defend the art I practice, and couldn't give a damn if you believe we should be above such things or not. Granted, I'm not going to go as far as challenge them to a fight because that won't solve the issue, but at the same time I'm not going to just let them slander and disrespect the art I love. Ignorance is no excuse for disrespecting what someone else does. The thing about these 2 is they feel safe posting their videos on the internet, where nobody can hurt them. I doubt they will have the guts to go into a Martial Arts school and say those things, because chances are they will come out of it in a full body cast. That's why in their crusade to expose "fake Martial Arts", they go in using fake names and take part in the class as if they are brand new and wanting to learn. If you are so confident in your skills and beliefs then why not just go in there and ask to spar with them? People will respect you a lot more for that than sneaking around with your hidden cameras.

I think mma is a style now. Back when the sport no it wasnt it was simply cross training but now it is a style. Look at Rory McDonald. He wasnt a boxer or a wrestler or jiu jitsu practitioner. He came into an mma gym knowing nothing and learnt everything from that gym. So yeah it is a style I think. Yes everyone's style of mma is different but that's no different to how everyone boxes differently or how everyone wrestles in a different style or how a karate guy uses his techniques differently it's no different to any of that

 

[Midnight-shadow]

Gosh after all these years in MMA I've only just found out what MMA is...wow.

Actually if you really want to discuss it you are incorrect when you say a 'small selection' of martial arts there is in reality just about every style used in MMA competitions, I can expand this...again, if you wish.
Fraud busting is against the rules here precisely to stop the slagging off of people and styles. What is being done here is fraud busting, calling these guys out, and of course as they are 'fraud busting' they too shouldn't be on here.
If you are going to perpetuate the so called MMA/TMA argument then perhaps that too would be better done elsewhere because we have enough people here who think only MMA and BJJ are the answer to everything which of course causes rancour. For the record I am MMA and TMA, with many years experience in both.

There is a big difference between fraud busting and discussing the issues regarding respect between different styles and practitioners, and while this thread did start out as fraud busting (or fraud busting bait, you can choose) it has since then developed into a discussion regarding how to deal with disrespect between styles, and how to express your opinion of other styles without sounding like a bigot.

I never planned to perpetuate the MMA/TMA argument at all, I was merely using that as an example of animosity between different groups that needs addressing. After all, how are we going to learn to respect each other if we don't talk and listen to one another? Communication is key to this.

 

[Tez3]

MMA practitioners, not all are fighters, will utilise any technique from any style they can if it works for them. Too many people say so and so style cannot work in the cage/ring and as a whole, it probably won't but the point of MMA is to use techniques that work from many styles, not just a few, and meld them seamlessly into your fighting. The trouble with that of course is that less knowledgably people are looking for specific styles and can't identify individual techniques which admittedly happen very fast. Often it's just better to sit back and enjoy the fights than worry over styles.
The thing is though, that people have fixed ideas about what certain styles are and no amount of discussion is going to change minds and we end up with yet another pointless thread, believe me, we've had many many of them

 

[RTKDCMB]

Now when someone calls my fighting art useless and fake, they are insulting me.

People say a lot of things. it's up to you if you want to listen or not. Words have power but words only have the power you give them.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Perhaps they don't know they are ignorant

That would make them doubly ignorant.

 

[Tez3]

That would make them doubly ignorant.

It's a wise man who knows what he doesn't know!

 

[RTKDCMB]

It's a wise man who knows what he doesn't know!

The more you know the more you know how much you don't know. You Know?

 

[Ironbear24]

And yes, I'm sure you are but unlike some you aren't working yourself into a frenzy and wanting to beat them up. You are also taking it that they are disrespecting your art not disrespecting you, there's a difference.

So someone else literally comes in does the exact same thing I did, but they are ok with you? What we did was literally no different.

I was never "in a fighting frenzy" over them, I said I could take them in a sparring match. A fighting frenzy would be like "I'm gonna **** them up and ect ect."

They more often than not just say "[insert style here] lovely sucks and all people who practice it are idiots and/or fake Martial Artists." They aren't presenting opinions in this, they are talking as if what they say is simple fact.

Exactly. I feel like you and JowGa wolf are the only people who understand this.

 

[Ironbear24]

So an opinion is formed based on inadequate and inaccurate information, and then that opinion is posted on the internet.
Am I describing what they did, what you did, or both?

What they did. I did not make a video called Tae kwon do is useless and go around in said video calling all the practitioners idiots.

It is very possible to not like an art and not show disrespect to it or its practicioners.

 

[Tez3]

So someone else literally comes in does the exact same thing I did, but they are ok with you? What we did was literally no different.

I was never "in a fighting frenzy" over them, I said I could take them in a sparring match. A fighting frenzy would be like "I'm gonna **** them up and ect ect."


.

Did I mention you at all? Nope. Now, seeing as you have posted, first of all you didn't say you would spar with them at first, you corrected it to that, you actually said you would challenge and fight them. It wasn't until someone pulled you up on it that you said you meant 'spar', of course you did.
No, I didn't say I was alright with 'them', re-read my post.

 

[Ironbear24]

Did I mention you at all? Nope. Now, seeing as you have posted, first of all you didn't say you would spar with them at first, you corrected it to that, you actually said you would challenge and fight them. It wasn't until someone pulled you up on it that you said you meant 'spar', of course you did.
No, I didn't say I was alright with 'them', re-read my post.

Well there wasn't really anyone else in here saying they would spar with them. It's a mistake on my part, I often interchange the words spar and fight all the time.

I rarely ever "fight" and I am very proud of that. I been in maybe only 3 fights my entire life where I was actually threatened or someone else was threatened. Sparring however I will do all the time as much as I get the chances to.

 

[Tez3]

Well there wasn't really anyone else in here saying they would spar with them. It's a mistake on my part, I often interchange the words spar and fight all the time.

I rarely ever "fight" and I am very proud of that. I been in maybe only 3 fights my entire life where I was actually threatened or someone else was threatened. Sparring however I will do all the time as much as I get the chances to.

The problem in that mistake however and your use of spar/fight is how it's seen by others, we have no facial expressions, no tone of voice to guide us on how the sentence is meant to be understood, all we have is the words and all of yours looked angry and ready to fight.

 

[Ironbear24]

Ok well that is my mistake then, I should have made myself more clear given that in the internet there is a lack of tone and body language.

My over all mood though when posting wasn't anger but laughter, I found it very funny.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Is this the place to do it though? Are we to be become like Bullshido now?

I've never been to Bullshido so I don't know what they are like. There have been rough discussions here in MT and I know I went through some when I first Joined, that the self-defense guy (can't remember his name at the moment) went through the same thing as well. So far this is what I've seen from this post. Someone posts a video, someone said how they felt, other's disagreed and said what they felt. The only person that is really getting heat is ironbear. So it's not like we are seeing multiple responses of people talking about the actual sparring which is what the videos show.

If you look at the majority of the comments, you will see that the comments aren't about the video but about what Iron bear said. So to me it shows that no one has an issue or a problem with the actual sparring in the video or who is in it.

 

[Ironbear24]

I've never been to Bullshido so I don't know what they are like. There have been rough discussions here in MT and I know I went through some when I first Joined, that the self-defense guy (can't remember his name at the moment) went through the same thing as well. So far this is what I've seen from this post. Someone posts a video, someone said how they felt, other's disagreed and said what they felt. The only person that is really getting heat is ironbear. So it's not like we are seeing multiple responses of people talking about the actual sparring which is what the videos show.

If you look at the majority of the comments, you will see that the comments aren't about the video but about what Iron bear said. So to me it shows that no one has an issue or a problem with the actual sparring in the video or who is in it.

Basically bullshido is an online forum made up of people like the two guys in the video. Lots of art bashing and trolls along with personal insults.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I believe issues regarding respect of other's art should be discussed, as there is too much friction and animosity between the different styles, and especially between MMA fighters and Traditional Martial Artists. Ignoring these issues isn't going to make them go away, and I believe that as long as personal gripes and egos are kept out of it, there is no harm in discussing this.

I think the animosity is more from MMA fans than actual MMA fighters. I'll use the 2 guys in the original video as an example. I have never heard an MMA fighter talk about other martial arts systems the way that they do. The 2 guys in the video aren't MMA fighters. The guy that is training Muay Thai will probably change his attitude as he continues to train Muay Thai. I'm sure many of his fellow Muay Thai classmates probably don't think about other martial systems like he does. The latest 12 videos that were posted on their channel doesn't include the guy in blue and my guess is that the more Muay Thai that the guy learns, the more he'll begin to recognize similar techniques are found in other systems that they trashed. It is also my guess that his fellow Muay Thai classmates don't think highly of the type of statements and behavior that those 2 have demonstrated.

I've met professional MMA and Muay thai fighters before and they were really nice and respectful people. None of them made fun of what I do, none of them had anything to say about any other martial art. Once they new what I did, they invited me to train with them even though they knew I was only in town to visit my brother. As many fights as the Gracies have had, I don't think they would ever tell their students that a TKD is harmless so don't pay it any mind. Most people who fight or do any serious sparring pretty much understand that anything including a wild punch with no technique can do damage.

Unfortunately for all of us there are UFC fans, Boxing Fans, Kung Fu fans etc. who don't fight and as a result have an perception that is built off incomplete information.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Basically bullshido is an online forum made up of people like the two guys in the video. Lots of art bashing and trolls along with personal insults.

Thanks, I will definitely stay away from that side. I practice a Chinese traditional martial art so I would just be asking for abuse by chatting there. lol.

 

[Ironbear24]

Thanks, I will definitely stay away from that side. I practice a Chinese traditional martial art so I would just be asking for abuse by chatting there. lol.

As far as they seem to be concerned he only good thing to come out of China is the food. And yeah, I have never seen any other martial artist spend so much time art bashing and insulting others than the MMA/UFC crowd. Many of them like Dana White Joe Rogan and the Gracies do it all of the time.

That is why these attitudes exist in the first place, because the high ups in it do it all the time themselves. At least Joe is more respectable than the others since he comes from a TMA background. The funny thing is the more they talk **** the more they get proven wrong, many TMA guys are doing great in ufc to their surprise.

In literally no other martial arts competitive outlet will you see so much **** talking like you do in the MMA/UFC crowds.

 

[Tez3]

In literally no other martial arts competitive outlet will you see so much **** talking like you do in the MMA/UFC crowds.

Actually I can literally tell you that you are mistaken, I've heard plenty of TMA people disrespect both MMA and other TMAs. It's not confined to MMA fanboys. In fact the way you are talking about MMA is somewhat disrespectful because you are literally generalising about MMA people.
The people on Bullshido also have a go at MMA people btw, they don't care who it is if they are in their sites.

Ok well that is my mistake then, I should have made myself more clear given that in the internet there is a lack of tone and body language.

My over all mood though when posting wasn't anger but laughter, I found it very funny.

No, you weren't laughing at all, you were angry, you said as much.