Do you have a progressive mind set?

[JowGaWolf]

I did a whole thread on it back in the day.

flying kicks for the streets.

Your opponent's 45 degree downward flying side kick (with all his body weight behind it), aiming at your leading leg knee joint can be the most scary entering strategy that your opponent applies on you. Just to think that a 200 lb of weight is going to drop on your knee joint, it will put you in...

www.martialtalk.com

And probably found about 8 to 10 examples eventually. Which just seems a lot for a move that shouldn't work.

See. Even this video shows the two elements that are needed.

1. Running start = distance to put force being the kick
2. Opponent stands still.

Didn't take long to find one in competition.

This is not a flying side kick. This kick uses a circular motion to drive the kick and not a linear one. It's not the same kick.

As for choreographed... is there anyone who doesn't think breaking is always, 100% choreographed?

Of course. Ask Alan lol

 

[JowGaWolf]

But you didn't say anything funny.

lol.. I got the band aids, but that one may need stitches lol ouch.

 

[Dirty Dog]

lol.. I got the band aids, but that one may need stitches lol ouch.

Fortunately, I have that covered.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Now, people expect high round and front kicks, so logical next step is jump flying kicks that people do not expect. Maybe later people adapt and look out of flying kicks, they then have to come up with something unexpected to win the fight.

The Circular Kicks and the Front Kicks are always dangerous. They are dangerous because the kick travels outside of the field of vision. The brain doesn't do a good job calculating strikes that travel outside of the field of vision in fighting. It tends to drop that data and focus on the other movements in front of it. However, if it's a singular movement of an object on a reliable path, say a baseball, then the brain can calculate when where that ball will be. It allows people to catch the ball without even seeing it.

When kicks in punches travel out of the field of vision the person will either look like they don't see the strike or they will drop their guard because the brain drops the data and doesn't read it as danger. This happens a lot with hooks where the brain says "My opponent is open" but it forgets that there's a punch that's on the way.

I know you don't like the technical stuff like this, but it all matters

 

[JowGaWolf]

Fortunately, I have that covered.

ha ha ha. WOW. you are on a roll today. We just keep setting them up and you keep knocking em down lol.

 

[drop bear]

See. Even this video shows the two elements that are needed.

1. Running start = distance to put force being the kick
2. Opponent stands still.

Yeah. Dynamics not normally found in the dojo.

 

[drop bear]

This is such a common phenomenon that I feel like it should have a name.
Person A says "there are times you can make this work".
Person B then goes on and on ad infinitum about how it won't work in every situation. Even though person A already said that.
Other than "strawman argument", I can't think of a term that fits.

The but what if he has two knives gambit

 

[Alan0354]

The Circular Kicks and the Front Kicks are always dangerous. They are dangerous because the kick travels outside of the field of vision. The brain doesn't do a good job calculating strikes that travel outside of the field of vision in fighting. It tends to drop that data and focus on the other movements in front of it. However, if it's a singular movement of an object on a reliable path, say a baseball, then the brain can calculate when where that ball will be. It allows people to catch the ball without even seeing it.

When kicks in punches travel out of the field of vision the person will either look like they don't see the strike or they will drop their guard because the brain drops the data and doesn't read it as danger. This happens a lot with hooks where the brain says "My opponent is open" but it forgets that there's a punch that's on the way.

I know you don't like the technical stuff like this, but it all matters

No, I am interested on this. What I am not interested are those that said you have to punch at an exact angle, you have to stand straight instead of lean forward 15deg, all those are nit picking. What you said is circular vs straight, that's an important distinction. I would YAWN if you start telling me you have to circle in complete horizontal, that it's wrong to circle in at 15deg instead 0deg completely horizontal. The idea is circle kick, everyone might do it slightly different depending on their body, flexibility.

Don't laugh, that's how a lot of TCMA are, that you have to do it EXACTLY, no room for give and take. Like you HAVE to do it this way, or else you are wrong. Like WC, you have to come from center line, the two elbows has to be close together that you can put a round loop around the two elbows and they can still fight, that their stance has to be like what I showed you in the video and the two knees has to be close together. They are serious about all these.

 

[Steve]

You're not a lot of fun at parties, are you.

Recognizing humor is the most important martial skill.

I know that because of the 36 Stratagems.

He gets like this sometimes. Here’s something fun. If you thumbs down one of his posts he’ll thumbs down your next post or go back and hit your last one. Very predictable. Kind of fun if you don’t let him irritate you, but a little petty for a senior moderator.

 

[Alan0354]

The Circular Kicks and the Front Kicks are always dangerous. They are dangerous because the kick travels outside of the field of vision. The brain doesn't do a good job calculating strikes that travel outside of the field of vision in fighting. It tends to drop that data and focus on the other movements in front of it. However, if it's a singular movement of an object on a reliable path, say a baseball, then the brain can calculate when where that ball will be. It allows people to catch the ball without even seeing it.

When kicks in punches travel out of the field of vision the person will either look like they don't see the strike or they will drop their guard because the brain drops the data and doesn't read it as danger. This happens a lot with hooks where the brain says "My opponent is open" but it forgets that there's a punch that's on the way.

I know you don't like the technical stuff like this, but it all matters

Let me give an example using punching. It is NOT that hard to learn, we all know you have to coordinate the foot, the legs, hip, waist, shoulder together with the arms to throw a punch like jab and cross. There is NO secrets, most people practice and look very similar. BUT, that's not the only form that works. Some people just punch somewhat differently. Chuck Liddell comes to mind. He is known to be a heavy puncher, here is a video of his knock outs.

The way he punches is a little different. Just doesn't look like the "perfect" punch. He punches with elbow a little wide, but he is not doing a hook punch. He use his shoulder, but not turning as much as a "good" cross punch. BUT, his record said much louder whether he is a good puncher.

This is what I mean about you don't have to do it in the EXACT way. You understand the idea of using the whole body to concentrate and explode at one focused point to deliver the max force. But you have to use the idea and find your most comfortable way of doing it. Maybe you like to stand 15deg off the perfect vertical line, maybe it's more comfortable for you to let your elbow out a little to punch............... It's the idea, the essence of how to punch that is important, not the absolute form. Not like WC that you HAVE to follow the straight form or you are wrong.

Even two people from the same school, same teacher, the way they kick or punch might look different even though they follow the same idea and same teacher.




EDIT:

One more example. Compare side kicks in TKD, Karate and Muaythai

The TKD school I went to, our teacher never said you have to do it "THIS" way. One of my friend who was a good fighter kicked with knee pointing down like Karate. Imagine if the teacher told him you are wrong, you have to chamber with knee pointing up or you are wrong!!!

TCMA school will absolutely tell you you are wrong. That's when I dismiss them all together.

I bet we can have a whole thread just to debate which side kick is better. This is where I am not interested. I only look at the result, they are all good.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I'm talking about the linear one where you need running space in order to get the impact you need.

When you have right leg forward, all you will need is to step in your left back leg, you are ready for your flying side kick. That 1 step distance is commonly used in fighting.

There is no difference between

- step in back leg and punch vs.
- step in back leg and flying side kick.

https://i.postimg.cc/BQSv7wtF/lin-flying-side-kick-1.gif

 

[JowGaWolf]

Let me give an example using punching. It is NOT that hard to learn, we all know you have to coordinate the foot, the legs, hip, waist, shoulder together with the arms to throw a punch like jab and cross. There is NO secrets, most people practice and look very similar. BUT, that's not the only form that works. Some people just punch somewhat differently. Chuck Liddell comes to mind. He is known to be a heavy puncher, here is a video of his knock outs.

The way he punches is a little different. Just doesn't look like the "perfect" punch. He punches with elbow a little wide, but he is not doing a hook punch. He use his shoulder, but not turning as much as a "good" cross punch. BUT, his record said much louder whether he is a good puncher.

This is what I mean about you don't have to do it in the EXACT way. You understand the idea of using the whole body to concentrate and explode at one focused point to deliver the max force. But you have to use the idea and find your most comfortable way of doing it. Maybe you like to stand 15deg off the perfect vertical line, maybe it's more comfortable for you to let your elbow out a little to punch............... It's the idea, the essence of how to punch that is important, not the absolute form. Not like WC that you HAVE to follow the straight form or you are wrong.

Even two people from the same school, same teacher, the way they kick or punch might look different even though they follow the same idea and same teacher.




EDIT:

One more example. Compare side kicks in TKD, Karate and Muaythai

The TKD school I went to, our teacher never said you have to do it "THIS" way. One of my friend who was a good fighter kicked with knee pointing down like Karate. Imagine if the teacher told him you are wrong, you have to chamber with knee pointing up or you are wrong!!!

TCMA school will absolutely tell you you are wrong. That's when I dismiss them all together.

I bet we can have a whole thread just to debate which side kick is better. This is where I am not interested. I only look at the result, they are all good.

You are complain about something that most people in here don't do. I've only seen one person in this group do what you claim and there are a lot of people in here who are in a TMA and that don't speak like you claim.

If I give an angle, it's a REFERENCE as to which direction you should head in. You would have understood this a long time ago had you not let your bias blind you.

 

[drop bear]

As someone who has used it in a fight, It's not effective for the amount of energy that is put into it unless a person is standing still and you have enough distance to run into the kick. You can't root in the air and that's a problem for this type of kick.
So the impact of this kick is determined by the speed that you build up in the run, plus the person standing still If any of these 2 realities are missing then the kick will be useless

This clip highlights this truth. (stays in one spot "aka staying still" enough running space)

This clip shows what happens when the one of the elements is missing. The person moves away from the kick and isn't even phased. Moving forward would jam the kick because it's impossible to adjust the timing and space needed for the kick after you leap.

Again "Running space" + "person standing still"

Same scenario same 2 elements.

This is accurate to how I understand it. Notice at the beginning it's a "Flying kick" and towards the end he covers less distance and it becomes more of a jump kick.

If I were to sucker kick someone. It would probably be with a fighting kick. This is the common way that I've seen this kicked used. When the other person doesn't know it's coming.

Yeah. But now we can suggest staying still in a street fight opens a vulnerability. To the flying kick no less.

Where say in the dojo. It isn't as important.

The positional hierarchy changes.

 

[Alan0354]

You are complain about something that most people in here don't do. I've only seen one person in this group do what you claim and there are a lot of people in here who are in a TMA and that don't speak like you claim.

If I give an angle, it's a REFERENCE as to which direction you should head in. You would have understood this a long time ago had you not let your bias blind you.

I have seen enough around in my environment in the pass, it's typical. I've seen some here, not just one. Be thankful people in US tend to have more open mind. maybe they are Americanized!!! I am talking about TCMA in general, not about this forum.

I did not say about you, you said already that your school are more open mind on learning from others and use in instead of putting them down. I was referring about the thread how the body should be, 15deg off vertical or completely straight. That's nit picking.

 

[Oily Dragon]

He gets like this sometimes. Here’s something fun. If you thumbs down one of his posts he’ll thumbs down your next post or go back and hit your last one. Very predictable. Kind of fun if you don’t let him irritate you, but a little petty for a senior moderator.

Of the three of us, you are the one who is most blind.

 

[wckf92]

...anyone rememeber when this forum used to discuss actual wing chun...?

 

[caped crusader]

I'm pretty sure he isn't either. A flying kick, even if blocked, requires total commitment. And even if blocked, it stands a reasonable chance of disrupting the targets balance and defense, allowing for a follow up.

Good luck when you try it...
If you survive it please tell us so we can learn from your experience.

 

[caped crusader]

Yeah. But now we can suggest staying still in a street fight opens a vulnerability. To the flying kick no less.

Will only work if you're not expecting it. Even then you would be puting yourself at risk. Look at the video no damage to Arnold. The guy Was himself on the ground. Of course we don't know if he was just a kid with no martial arts experience.

 

[Steve]

Of the three of us, you are the one who is most blind.

Maybe so.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Will only work if you're not expecting it. Even then you would be puting yourself at risk. Look at the video no damage to Arnold. The guy Was himself on the ground. Of course we don't know if he was just a kid with no martial arts experience.

The kicker didn't have enough mass behind that kick. Not quite sure of the effect that he was hopping to get. Maybe his expectations of the kick were unrealistic. Maybe this is how he thought that kick would work?