Do you claim any religious faith? / How are you on sharing?

[Jenna]

If you have a religious faith, would you take an opportunity to state your faith because I am openly interested in hearing? If so, are you also happy to tell me about your faith and what good things it is that your faith brings to your life because I am openly interested in learning and discussing? If so, thank you. If not, can I ask please, why not? And if I cannot even coax you into answering that then maybe I can persuade you to ask yourself: what is the hindrance to your sharing?

I am happy to share my faith with anyone who is interested in sharing. I have also encountered many times in many situations, non-theists who are, in my experience, more than happy to state their position and more than open to discuss more widely, yet not in all cases would I encounter a similar expression of interest among those I know have a personal religious faith. Beyond the fact that it is just me, or my approach, are there reasons why those having a personal faith are reluctant to share the benefits their faith brings to them? Is faith and sharing faith not a good thing? Why is there reticence? I have even sensed embarrassment I think. I do not always understand. My faith makes exhortation to connect and to attempt to show by example and to encourage others to see the benefits of that faith. Why is it not the same for everyone in their personal faiths? Why do some hide their faith?

Thank you for your contribution.

 

[Cyriacus]

Now...

If you have a religious faith, would you take an opportunity to state your faith because I am openly interested in hearing?

I have no problem telling anyone My standing. It isnt exactly a state secret.

If so, are you also happy to tell me about your faith and what good things it is that your faith brings to your life because I am openly interested in learning and discussing?

Faith in a Religion, in terms of its benefit to Your Life, is similar to the determination of a people at War, in Defense of Their Livelyhood. Belief can be a strong influence, in and of that it gives some people determination, where They otherwise wouldnt.

If so, thank you. If not, can I ask please, why not? And if I cannot even coax you into answering that then maybe I can persuade you to ask yourself: what is the hindrance to your sharing?

I have no idea what Id attribute Myself to.
Not, I dont know what I believe. I mean, We cannot know for sure one way or another if any Faith is accurate. Therefore, I choose to believe its possible. I do not disbelieve it. I also dont believe in any particular Faith.
I guess if I had to pick one, the Norse had it pretty good

I am happy to share my faith with anyone who is interested in sharing.

The only reason I could see for someone not wanting to, is preconceptions. For example, some people might be afraid of stating Themself as a follower of Islam, for fear of being attributed to certain groups. Not so much now, but at one point. And that kind of concern doesnt disappear with the risk.

I have also encountered many times in many situations, non-theists who are, in my experience, more than happy to state their position and more than open to discuss more widely, yet not in all cases would I encounter a similar expression of interest among those I know have a personal religious faith. Beyond the fact that it is just me, or my approach, are there reasons why those having a personal faith are reluctant to share the benefits their faith brings to them?

Thatd be subjective to the Individual.

Is faith and sharing faith not a good thing?

Crusades.

Why is there reticence? I have even sensed embarrassment I think.

Some people are unsure of Themselves, and tend to just have a belief system for the sake of having one, or just cant back up having one with reasons other than "I do". Which is fine. But it can make some folks uncomfortable.

I do not always understand. My faith makes exhortation to connect and to attempt to show by example and to encourage others to see the benefits of that faith. Why is it not the same for everyone in their personal faiths? Why do some hide their faith?

Better question: Why are some faiths subtle, or not put out for the world to see? Because alot of people are insecure, and they often end up in groups which reflect that, and nourish it enough to give them structure.

Thank you for your contribution.

Its a complex topic. Im trying not to go into too much depth, and am favoring observations over opinions, since stating opinions on other Religions can sometimes lead to some bitterness.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

If you have a religious faith, would you take an opportunity to state your faith because I am openly interested in hearing?

Roman Catholic.

If so, are you also happy to tell me about your faith and what good things it is that your faith brings to your life because I am openly interested in learning and discussing?

I don't give it a lot of thought. It's just what I am. When I was younger, I was not able to compartmentalize the fundamental dichotomy between what religion teaches and how the universe appears to work. I went on a personal spiritual quest that lasted 20 years. I studied lots of other religions and even no religion at all. I went on Vision Quests of my own devising, I did shamanic drumming and ritual dancing, I visited temples and churches and Kingdom Halls and synagogues. I mostly referred to myself as a Wiccan for quite a while. In the end, I returned to Roman Catholicism, the religion of my birth and upbringing. It's got a lot of problems, but I've learned to compartmentalize them. I can believe in evolution and Creationism at the same time; it's not that hard to believe (impossible to explain, but not impossible to believe). Why Roman Catholic? I guess because it's where I feel comfortable and safe and at peace. Being part of the Mass is one of the most powerful spiritual experiences I've ever felt personally; and for me, it is fulfilling.

If so, thank you. If not, can I ask please, why not? And if I cannot even coax you into answering that then maybe I can persuade you to ask yourself: what is the hindrance to your sharing?

I am happy to share my faith with anyone who is interested in sharing. I have also encountered many times in many situations, non-theists who are, in my experience, more than happy to state their position and more than open to discuss more widely, yet not in all cases would I encounter a similar expression of interest among those I know have a personal religious faith. Beyond the fact that it is just me, or my approach, are there reasons why those having a personal faith are reluctant to share the benefits their faith brings to them? Is faith and sharing faith not a good thing? Why is there reticence? I have even sensed embarrassment I think. I do not always understand. My faith makes exhortation to connect and to attempt to show by example and to encourage others to see the benefits of that faith. Why is it not the same for everyone in their personal faiths? Why do some hide their faith?

Thank you for your contribution.

I suspect people hide their faith because they fear ridicule and in some cases, actual danger.

I have no problem with agnostics, and not much of a problem with atheists; I even agree with them on many things, including that the real facts are unknown and probably unknowable, that faith is just not enough for some people and that's OK, and so on. However, a (to me) distressing number of so-called atheists are actually either anti-religion or anti-Christian (some are more specifically anti-Catholic). It's not just that they do not believe, they want and actively work to denigrate, demean, and insult people of faith. They want religion expunged from the world, they see it as evil, dangerous, and the root of all evil. They have set themselves up not just to be anti-religion for themselves, but to destroy my faith and even make it illegal for me to practice as I wish, including voting for laws that fit my concepts of how society should function. As I said, I have no problems with atheists per se; but I have a huge problem with people who set themselves up to be my enemy because I am Catholic. If they choose that path, then I will oblige them. People who set out to destroy religion should not be surprised to find I don't stand around and take it passively.

 

[oftheherd1]

If you have a religious faith, would you take an opportunity to state your faith because I am openly interested in hearing? If so, are you also happy to tell me about your faith and what good things it is that your faith brings to your life because I am openly interested in learning and discussing? If so, thank you. If not, can I ask please, why not? And if I cannot even coax you into answering that then maybe I can persuade you to ask yourself: what is the hindrance to your sharing?

I am a Christian. My faith brings me happiness most often. It also brings me assurance of salvation. That is probably most important. I believe in Heaven and hell, and don't want to be in hell, nor will I.

I am happy to share my faith with anyone who is interested in sharing. I have also encountered many times in many situations, non-theists who are, in my experience, more than happy to state their position and more than open to discuss more widely, yet not in all cases would I encounter a similar expression of interest among those I know have a personal religious faith. Beyond the fact that it is just me, or my approach, are there reasons why those having a personal faith are reluctant to share the benefits their faith brings to them? Is faith and sharing faith not a good thing? Why is there reticence? I have even sensed embarrassment I think. I do not always understand. My faith makes exhortation to connect and to attempt to show by example and to encourage others to see the benefits of that faith. Why is it not the same for everyone in their personal faiths? Why do some hide their faith?

I have also puzzled over the same questions about people. I do try to talk to people about my religious beliefs. I try to tell them how they might be saved. I am commanded to do so by the Bible. I also happen to believe it is a good thing to be saved, and think I should tell others about it. I do try to do it with Christian love. I do not want to be confrontational. I do not want to simply win arguments. I want to convince them to accept salvation and serve God. Some people are willing to talk about it, others not. Why?

I think different people have different reasons. But I suspect some may have had people talk to them who became confrontational, or arrogant, or otherwise try to demand as opposed to trying to persuade. I think some fear talking about it because they want to put off discussing it in the hope they can delay the inevitable. Others have a faith of their own, but may not know how to defend it, and fear being made to look foolish, or inclined to change something they don't want to change.

Bottom line though, is that most of those I have encountered who don't want to discuss it, by their demeanor make me feel they are afraid of discussing it in some way. The reasons I can only guess at, since those I have encountered don't want to discuss their reasons for not discussing it either.

As to having and sharing my faith, I think it is a good thing. It is for me. Reticence to share faith? Well, it isn't always easy. Some people can become quite unfriendly when I try to tell them about my faith. I have had people try to belittle me, or get angry at me, or try to seem superior to me. Some have refused to have anything to do with me. I am commanded to share my belief, but not to force anyone to change. That is basically impossible anyway. I do try to convince, but try to be very careful to do it in a way that will not turn anyone off to ever accepting my beliefs. To me, that would be almost as bad as not telling them in the first place.

I don't want to sound like I try to tell everyone I encounter. I probably should, but I don't. For one thing, I cannot do it where I work. I owe 8 hours of work to my employer. For another, I am just not as bold as I would like to be. But I try as often as I think there is an opportunity, and I find myself bold enough.

Thank you for your contribution.

I hope it has been a contribution to your question.

 

[WC_lun]

I'm Buhdhist. I grew up in a Methodist family, but had trouble reconciling some of the church beliefs with my personal beliefs. I don't have a problem with anyone's faith or religion. The only times I do have issue is when someone wants to denigrate what I believe or use thier own faith as an excuse for hate.

Religion is a very powerful and in some cases private thing. No one wants to be ridiculed for thier beliefs. Nor do they normally want to be seen as the loud mouth telling everyone else what to believe. It is much easier just to remain quiet.

 

[Instructor]

If you have a religious faith, would you take an opportunity to state your faith because I am openly interested in hearing?

I am a born again Christian in the Evangelical/Pentecostal vein.

If so, are you also happy to tell me about your faith and what good things it is that your faith brings to your life because I am openly interested in learning and discussing? If so, thank you. If not, can I ask please, why not? And if I cannot even coax you into answering that then maybe I can persuade you to ask yourself: what is the hindrance to your sharing?

My faith brings me everything I have love, happiness, joy, forgiveness, family, everything. I owe it all to God.

I am happy to share my faith with anyone who is interested in sharing. I have also encountered many times in many situations, non-theists who are, in my experience, more than happy to state their position and more than open to discuss more widely, yet not in all cases would I encounter a similar expression of interest among those I know have a personal religious faith.

Sad but true. Many have been ridiculed for their faith, it's terrible. I once had a supervisor that made it his goal in life to ruin me simply because I was a Christian. I still prayed for him privately though.

Beyond the fact that it is just me, or my approach, are there reasons why those having a personal faith are reluctant to share the benefits their faith brings to them?

I share a lot here on the forum but in person I am kind of a shy introverted person. I don't share much with others. I do offer to pray for people if they are suffering. I sometimes invite people to go to church with me if they mention they are looking. My work environment has certain rules regarding sharing this sort of thing so I have to use quite a bit of tact.

Is faith and sharing faith not a good thing? Why is there reticence? I have even sensed embarrassment I think. I do not always understand. My faith makes exhortation to connect and to attempt to show by example and to encourage others to see the benefits of that faith. Why is it not the same for everyone in their personal faiths? Why do some hide their faith?

It used to be in this country that if you weren't some variety of Christian you were considered strange. Nowadays pretty much everybody is accepted. I think the Muslims have suffered quite a bit since terrorism came into vogue. Nowadays it seems like Christians are often the target of comedy on television and in film. We are often portrayed in a bad light. It always rubs me the wrong way when Christians are portrayed as simple minded, crazy, or even evil.

Thank you for your contribution.

Thanks for giving me an oppurtunity to speak about my faith.

 

[Empty Hands]

I have no religious faith. You'll forgive me if I don't pile on about how awful the scornful atheists are, when everyone from my family to society at large look down on me for it. You're 90-95% of the population, a handful of loudmouth scornful atheists won't harm you.

I don't like to share in my public life for the most part, until I know and trust the person very well, because of the potential consequences. My wife just doesn't get that. She will casually tell brand new acquaintances that I am an atheist, and then gets upset with me when I ask her not to. I just never know how someone is going to react, and what negative consequences it can have. I'm fortunate in my choice of profession and location that religious intolerance is rarely an issue.

As for why, I just don't have the belief. And I have no reason to have the belief. By neither internal conviction nor evidence. You do? Cool, I have no problem with that. Nearly everyone I care for and love is a theist. But that doesn't somehow make their beliefs rational or defensible. But neither does it make them a bad person. I've found that people who are bad twist their religion along with it, and good people do good things with their religion. I doubt that religion can make one good or bad - although it does subject good people to unnecessary pain.

 

[Sukerkin]

They want religion expunged from the world, they see it as evil, dangerous, <snip>

Without the fiery words after it, this is me.

I don't want the following to be seen as an attempt to antagonise or belittle or any other such negative thing. It is just my opinion and, as such, carries as much/little weight as the readers wish to give it. I thought it might give flavour to have an entry from the non-theist rationalists.

Of course, my wish for humanity to leave religion behind would have to be in an ideal world where people wouldn't just find some other excuse to be horrible to those that don't think the same about something unprovable and likely fictitious (not certainly so, of course, as that for which no proof is asked cannot be verified as true or false).

So that wish to see removed that quirk of evolution that makes some of us believe in the supernatural is a rather fruitless one. I've noted before that it is possible that this tendency to sanctification is tied to the same abilities that make us able to create, fantacise and plan for the future; so, on reflection, getting rid of it might not be such a great idea for the species.

BillM and Seasoned and Jenna are fine examples of religious minded people who have fastened on to the one truly salient fact about religion that matters - it's not about God (or whatever mythos followed) or Scripture, it's about yourself as a human being. Having a personal relationship with God is a useful cypher for exploring and codifying your sense of what makes a moral being.

In such a context it is irrelevant that God does not exist (or does) - the person exists and seeks to improve their own spiritual enlightenment. In my case I seek that alongside a fascination with the arcane intricacies of the universe, with it's vastness and beautiful complexity. So, as I said to Seasoned yesterday, I suppose if I do have a 'faith' it is mathematics :lol:.

 

[Sukerkin]

Very well expressed, EH - much better than I did. My excuse is that I've just spent all day with a commissioning panel trying to make 2 + 2 = 3 and we're all shaking a chicken at the blue moon that a transformer at the local substations doesn't go phoom in the next six months or Northampton goes dark .

 

[Tez3]

With all due respect the answers given by a couple of posters is the reason many of us don't care to 'share' our faith or religion. I understand that people are happy with their faith but what I don't understand is their need to tell us about it and try to convert us who aren't of their faith. I'm happy with what I am, it's my life but I understand perfectly why it's not for everyone and never in a million years would I feel the need to 'spread' or share what I believe with anyone else. I understand totally why Empty Hands wants to keep his thoughts to himself. I don't think anyone not of a specific faith needs to be saved and I take umbrage I'm afraid when people want to 'share' their religious beliefs with me and 'save me' I find that insulting. Atheists, agnostics, pagans, whatever, everyone is fine by me, to each their own and I really wish it would stay that way. I really really don't want people praying for me, kind though the intention may be, it's arrogant all the same. I do sometimes have moments of amusements when certain Christians try to convert me to their religion from mine which was the same as their Jesus'. If their messiah came back today do you think he would go to a church or a shul to pray? As he was a rebbe I'm betting he'd make straight for the shul.
I'm sorry if people think that's confrontational but the OP asked why we wouldn't like to 'share', it's simply I think that many of us don't feel a need to do this modern thing of 'sharing'. My shift partner is a Hindu and likewise as an 'old' religion I don't think they have this need to 'share' either, I've found that most people are happy with what they believe in so should be left alone.

 

[Jenna]

Thank you all so very very much for such wonderful positive testimonies.

I think I am a little perturbed to have to call it brave and because to suggest it is brave or requires courage to explain to someone something that we do that brings us happiness (and is free for all) seems counterintuitive. Nevertheless, I think in context of stating one's faith in public can surely be described as brave. I am very grateful to have your contributions.

I am Christian in a Pentecostal tradition having come from an Orthodox Catholic background stemming back to where I am originally from. I have good relationships with very moderate Muslim friends. I feel it is part of my faith to respect the beliefs and faiths of others.

Faith in a Religion, in terms of its benefit to Your Life, is similar to the determination of a people at War, in Defense of Their Livelyhood. Belief can be a strong influence, in and of that it gives some people determination, where They otherwise wouldnt.

Yes, I understand this analogy, thank you. And have you given this analogy in the third person for a reason? It is your personal faith I am interested in I think you are correct, we cannot know anything for sure except what our faith has proven to us And since you have not explicitly stated your faith, would I assume you are reticent for the aforementioned reasons? Or have I misinterpreted what you have written? I do appreciate your contribution and I am interested in hearing if you are so minded to share. Thank you.

I have no problem with agnostics, and not much of a problem with atheists; I even agree with them on many things, including that the real facts are unknown and probably unknowable, that faith is just not enough for some people and that's OK, and so on. However, a (to me) distressing number of so-called atheists are actually either anti-religion or anti-Christian (some are more specifically anti-Catholic). It's not just that they do not believe, they want and actively work to denigrate, demean, and insult people of faith. They want religion expunged from the world, they see it as evil, dangerous, and the root of all evil. They have set themselves up not just to be anti-religion for themselves, but to destroy my faith and even make it illegal for me to practice as I wish, including voting for laws that fit my concepts of how society should function. As I said, I have no problems with atheists per se; but I have a huge problem with people who set themselves up to be my enemy because I am Catholic. If they choose that path, then I will oblige them. People who set out to destroy religion should not be surprised to find I don't stand around and take it passively.

I would wholly agree with this. I understand the idea of religious contention which encourages some to hide their faith. I think perhaps I am naive to suggest that the religion of another is a threat to my own any more than atheism bears that threat. I am interested in discussion. I am interested in diversity. I am also wondering if the reason that many Christian faiths have a feeling of erosion from so many quarters) is partly because the Christian voice is so often quiet? What do you think? Is Christianity culpable for its own erosion because it values tolerance and a certain appeasement in the face of violence or the threat of violence? Thank you very much for sharing so generously.

I think different people have different reasons. But I suspect some may have had people talk to them who became confrontational, or arrogant, or otherwise try to demand as opposed to trying to persuade. I think some fear talking about it because they want to put off discussing it in the hope they can delay the inevitable. Others have a faith of their own, but may not know how to defend it, and fear being made to look foolish, or inclined to change something they don't want to change.

Yes I think these reasons are perfectly understandable. I think the apparent requirement to defend one's faith against a metric that is not faith-based (or even that IS faith-based in a conversation like this) is certainly one of the reasons for such reticence. I would say that not everyone is a competent orator or debater and but for me, the only argument I need is.. Because that is what I believe. I do not need to have it proven. I am not blind to evidence which others perceive as refutation. Still, my faith is my faith and needs for me no justification beyond what I feel. I wish I could instil that in everyone that had faith and but was self-conscious in any of the many ways when it came to sharing.

I think the idea of preaching inappropriately to those not willing to hear it is also at times foremost in the minds of people with a faith. And I guess the global drive to proselytise is also offputting to some. I think it is a shame that faiths compete with each other and that atheism further competes with those faiths also. Is there a theoretical compromise to be had do you think? Or will the strongest eventually defeat the weakest?

I'm Buhdhist. I grew up in a Methodist family, but had trouble reconciling some of the church beliefs with my personal beliefs. I don't have a problem with anyone's faith or religion. The only times I do have issue is when someone wants to denigrate what I believe or use thier own faith as an excuse for hate.

Religion is a very powerful and in some cases private thing. No one wants to be ridiculed for thier beliefs. Nor do they normally want to be seen as the loud mouth telling everyone else what to believe. It is much easier just to remain quiet.

I very much appreciate your sharing. Thank you! Can I ask please why you think there is this derision or utilisation of the beliefs that someone has as a weapon against them? Why is there derision when most if not all faiths have peace at their truest core?

And do you feel there is a positive way to share your faith without falling into either of those categories - subject of ridicule / loudmouth preacher? Thank you again.

Thanks for giving me an oppurtunity to speak about my faith.

Thank you for what you have shared. I wonder can I ask please why do you think some are ridiculed for their faith? Are some faiths (or is lack of faith) more "credible" and less apt to ridicule do you think? And if so, why is that?

I have no religious faith. You'll forgive me if I don't pile on about how awful the scornful atheists are, when everyone from my family to society at large look down on me for it. You're 90-95% of the population, a handful of loudmouth scornful atheists won't harm you.

I don't like to share in my public life for the most part, until I know and trust the person very well, because of the potential consequences. My wife just doesn't get that. She will casually tell brand new acquaintances that I am an atheist, and then gets upset with me when I ask her not to. I just never know how someone is going to react, and what negative consequences it can have. I'm fortunate in my choice of profession and location that religious intolerance is rarely an issue.

As for why, I just don't have the belief. And I have no reason to have the belief. By neither internal conviction nor evidence. You do? Cool, I have no problem with that. Nearly everyone I care for and love is a theist. But that doesn't somehow make their beliefs rational or defensible. But neither does it make them a bad person. I've found that people who are bad twist their religion along with it, and good people do good things with their religion. I doubt that religion can make one good or bad - although it does subject good people to unnecessary pain.

Thank you for outlining your position. I am grateful to have your opinion, I am sure I have said before, for me personally having whatever variant of faith or being atheist I would hope in an ideal world was no barrier to open discussion. I appreciate though that in the real world, as you have eloquently explained, often never the twain shall meet. Can I ask please do you think this antipathy is a reflection of a deliberate desire to remain ignorant? Do you think theism is a threat to atheism (or rationality in a wider sense maybe)? Do you think atheism is a threat to faith? Thank you again for taking time to post.

So that wish to see removed that quirk of evolution that makes some of us believe in the supernatural is a rather fruitless one. I've noted before that it is possible that this tendency to sanctification is tied to the same abilities that make us able to create, fantacise and plan for the future; so, on reflection, getting rid of it might not be such a great idea for the species.

I appreciate you posting here Suke. I wonder if you would mind me asking you a question? I understand your antipathy for the notions held tight in religion and faith in deities and but I wonder you seem to be speaking in a very much first person narrative as if you have been in direct conflict with persons or bodies which gave rise to that antipathy. Is this the case? I think it is one thing to disagree with religious concepts using a metric of science, I have heard a deal of secondary anger also expressed within these kinds of discussions (the notable public face of atheism: Dawkins though not so much Hitchens before his passing) and was wondering if that was a reflection of frustration with religion and perceived religious impingements or is it based upon personal direct conflict? I would be interested in your own experience. Thank you again for posting your thoughts.

With all due respect the answers given by a couple of posters is the reason many of us don't care to 'share' our faith or religion. I understand that people are happy with their faith but what I don't understand is their need to tell us about it and try to convert us who aren't of their faith. I'm happy with what I am, it's my life but I understand perfectly why it's not for everyone and never in a million years would I feel the need to 'spread' or share what I believe with anyone else. I understand totally why Empty Hands wants to keep his thoughts to himself. I don't think anyone not of a specific faith needs to be saved and I take umbrage I'm afraid when people want to 'share' their religious beliefs with me and 'save me' I find that insulting. Atheists, agnostics, pagans, whatever, everyone is fine by me, to each their own and I really wish it would stay that way. I really really don't want people praying for me, kind though the intention may be, it's arrogant all the same. I do sometimes have moments of amusements when certain Christians try to convert me to their religion from mine which was the same as their Jesus'. If their messiah came back today do you think he would go to a church or a shul to pray? As he was a rebbe I'm betting he'd make straight for the shul.
I'm sorry if people think that's confrontational but the OP asked why we wouldn't like to 'share', it's simply I think that many of us don't feel a need to do this modern thing of 'sharing'. My shift partner is a Hindu and likewise as an 'old' religion I don't think they have this need to 'share' either, I've found that most people are happy with what they believe in so should be left alone.

I am sorry that you are having an experience where someone has tried to coerce you into listening to what you are not interested in. I can only say that is not something I would do intentionally. In this thread, I am seeking to share with whomever of whichever faith, or lack of, seeks to share in discussion likewise. If someone is not interested then that is perfectly fine. It is not for me to be intrusive. I hope you are not offended by me asking what I have asked in this thread? I would be interested in hearing about what your personal faith brings to you and but I appreciate that you may not be inclined and I am grateful nevertheless for you having taken the time to outline your thoughts, thank you.

 

[oftheherd1]

I have no religious faith. You'll forgive me if I don't pile on about how awful the scornful atheists are, when everyone from my family to society at large look down on me for it. You're 90-95% of the population, a handful of loudmouth scornful atheists won't harm you.

I think it unfortunate that people look down on you. I could understand looking at your beliefs with sadness for you, but not from an attitude of superiority. I don't anticipate being harmed by any atheist, including you sir. I think you are wrong about believers in God being 90-95% of the population. I wish it were so. Do you have figures to back that up?

I don't like to share in my public life for the most part, until I know and trust the person very well, because of the potential consequences. My wife just doesn't get that. She will casually tell brand new acquaintances that I am an atheist, and then gets upset with me when I ask her not to. I just never know how someone is going to react, and what negative consequences it can have. I'm fortunate in my choice of profession and location that religious intolerance is rarely an issue.

Perhaps she is hoping to get you to follow her religion, but has simply run out of reasons to convince you, and hopes the new acquaintance may follow up and bring out reasons to convince you? I don't know that to be so, and am not sure I would say that is the most fruitful way to do so. But it may simply indicate her concern for you.

As for why, I just don't have the belief. And I have no reason to have the belief. By neither internal conviction nor evidence. You do? Cool, I have no problem with that. Nearly everyone I care for and love is a theist. But that doesn't somehow make their beliefs rational or defensible. But neither does it make them a bad person. I've found that people who are bad twist their religion along with it, and good people do good things with their religion. I doubt that religion can make one good or bad - although it does subject good people to unnecessary pain.

The underlined of the above is sadly, quite true. And the religion claimed has little bearing. As to the bolded, I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying sir, that religion makes all who follow a religion sad, and not following a religion makes those people happy?

1

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I have no religious faith. You'll forgive me if I don't pile on about how awful the scornful atheists are, when everyone from my family to society at large look down on me for it. You're 90-95% of the population, a handful of loudmouth scornful atheists won't harm you.

I don't worry about the scorn of atheists; or anyone else for that matter. I've got a pretty thick hide. I only have an issue with those who would attempt to legally prohibit my ability to worship as I see fit, and live my life in a manner consistent with my religious beliefs; including voting for laws that reflect the kind of society I wish to live in. I recognize that they are doing the same thing; they vote for laws that reflect the kind of society they want to live in; but as they are free to oppose my attempts, I reserve the right to do likewise.

I don't like to share in my public life for the most part, until I know and trust the person very well, because of the potential consequences. My wife just doesn't get that. She will casually tell brand new acquaintances that I am an atheist, and then gets upset with me when I ask her not to. I just never know how someone is going to react, and what negative consequences it can have. I'm fortunate in my choice of profession and location that religious intolerance is rarely an issue.

I generally keep my beliefs to myself in public. Discussion forums are a different matter for me; I really don't mind who knows my beliefs, and if they inform the issues I'm passionate about, there is good reason to explain what my purpose or motivation is.

I do not proselytize, although my faith says I am supposed to. I just don't want to do it; others think it's rude and pushy and I can't disagree with them. I also don't argue scripture; I've never seen any discussion about that which had a happy ending; not one.

 

[Instructor]

Thank you for what you have shared. I wonder can I ask please why do you think some are ridiculed for their faith? Are some faiths (or is lack of faith) more "credible" and less apt to ridicule do you think? And if so, why is that?

I honestly don't know Jenna. I don't ridicule other people or their religions or the lack thereof. Ultimately we are all here just trying to find our way in life. I think some people deal with fear by tormenting others. I think some people open themselves up to be tormented though I know not why.

I really really don't want people praying for me, kind though the intention may be, it's arrogant all the same.

Often I pray for people without them ever knowing it's happening. I don't foist my faith on people who aren't interested. But privately I pray for them. Sorry you feel that is arrogant.

 

[Sukerkin]

To misquote Obiwan Kenobi, your insight does you credit, Jenna.

Aye, some part of the roots of the strength of my feelings on the negative aspects of religion and religious belief (there are positive aspects too) has been fed by my father. Not that his faith has been leading him to do any evil, quite the reverse but because, since I was about fifteen, every time we speak we end up circling the same topic viz my lack of willingness to believe in a creator deity and his lack of willingness to stop trying to reconvert me.

I have to be careful when I speak here on matters of religion because, as I am only human, all those decades of debate going over the same ground again and again have made me prone to speak in derisory terms - I cannot speak to my father that way and the pressure has to come out somewhere :lol:. Not something I am proud of, I do confess .

 

[oftheherd1]

With all due respect the answers given by a couple of posters is the reason many of us don't care to 'share' our faith or religion. I understand that people are happy with their faith but what I don't understand is their need to tell us about it and try to convert us who aren't of their faith. I'm happy with what I am, it's my life but I understand perfectly why it's not for everyone and never in a million years would I feel the need to 'spread' or share what I believe with anyone else. I understand totally why Empty Hands wants to keep his thoughts to himself. I don't think anyone not of a specific faith needs to be saved and I take umbrage I'm afraid when people want to 'share' their religious beliefs with me and 'save me' I find that insulting. Atheists, agnostics, pagans, whatever, everyone is fine by me, to each their own and I really wish it would stay that way. I really really don't want people praying for me, kind though the intention may be, it's arrogant all the same. I do sometimes have moments of amusements when certain Christians try to convert me to their religion from mine which was the same as their Jesus'. If their messiah came back today do you think he would go to a church or a shul to pray? As he was a rebbe I'm betting he'd make straight for the shul.
I'm sorry if people think that's confrontational but the OP asked why we wouldn't like to 'share', it's simply I think that many of us don't feel a need to do this modern thing of 'sharing'. My shift partner is a Hindu and likewise as an 'old' religion I don't think they have this need to 'share' either, I've found that most people are happy with what they believe in so should be left alone.

I would share my beliefs with you because the the Bible tells us to, and because I think it is such a good thing I want to share. Do share your ideas about the good things about martial arts? When you do so, is their ever an implication that others would benefit from studying martial arts? I would not try to change you simply because I believe something and want to justify myself.

I don't consider it arrogance to pray for someone. It is intended for their good. If you consider it otherwise, and I had occassion to pray for you, I guess I would learn to just not tell you.

My Bible tells me that when Jesus, the messiah, comes back the first time, He will come back in the air, to collect those saved. My Bible doesn't tell me he will come to go to a church or any other place of worship.

The above reflect my beliefs, based on the Bible. My Bible contains an Old and New Testament. You or anyone else has a right to agree or disagree. I will not belittle you for differences in belief. Nor should anyone in my opinion.

I would still exercise an opportunity to talk to you and try to convince you to my beliefs. And respect your right to tell me you don't wish to discuss my beliefs.

 

[Empty Hands]

Thank you for outlining your position. I am grateful to have your opinion, I am sure I have said before, for me personally having whatever variant of faith or being atheist I would hope in an ideal world was no barrier to open discussion. I appreciate though that in the real world, as you have eloquently explained, often never the twain shall meet. Can I ask please do you think this antipathy is a reflection of a deliberate desire to remain ignorant? Do you think theism is a threat to atheism (or rationality in a wider sense maybe)? Do you think atheism is a threat to faith? Thank you again for taking time to post.

Thanks Jenna, I've always appreciated your approach to this subject.

I've met a good number of religious people both online and off that have no issue debating their faith or the existence of God. However, some do not, not at all. I do not think that atheism is necessarily a threat to faith, but i think it nonetheless is a threat for some people. People who are insecure in their faith, or who have based their faith on certain "rocks" like the inerrancy of scripture or Young Earth Creationism are particularly vulnerable. The presence of counter-arguments that undercut their "rocks", or simply the presence of people who do not believe as they do, provokes insecurity and a harsh reaction. I think that some people also view their faith in very personal, emotional terms. People who then argue against their faith are not a threat as such, but are attacking something personal and close, which provokes a reaction. And as I said, plenty of believers have no problem at all with the debate.

As for the other way around, I do not think theism is a threat to atheism. The harsh reactions from atheists are mostly a reaction to experiences they have had, and prevailing cultural attitudes. It will probably calm down quite a bit with time as acceptance improves, just as it has for most of Europe.

 

[Instructor]

Thanks Jenna, I've always appreciated your approach to this subject.

I've met a good number of religious people both online and off that have no issue debating their faith or the existence of God. However, some do not, not at all. I do not think that atheism is necessarily a threat to faith, but i think it nonetheless is a threat for some people. People who are insecure in their faith, or who have based their faith on certain "rocks" like the inerrancy of scripture or Young Earth Creationism are particularly vulnerable. The presence of counter-arguments that undercut their "rocks", or simply the presence of people who do not believe as they do, provokes insecurity and a harsh reaction. I think that some people also view their faith in very personal, emotional terms. People who then argue against their faith are not a threat as such, but are attacking something personal and close, which provokes a reaction. And as I said, plenty of believers have no problem at all with the debate.

As for the other way around, I do not think theism is a threat to atheism. The harsh reactions from atheists are mostly a reaction to experiences they have had, and prevailing cultural attitudes. It will probably calm down quite a bit with time as acceptance improves, just as it has for most of Europe.

With respect to you and your beliefs Empty Hands I believe the only theat an atheist poses is to themselves.

 

[oftheherd1]

...

Yes I think these reasons are perfectly understandable. I think the apparent requirement to defend one's faith against a metric that is not faith-based (or even that IS faith-based in a conversation like this) is certainly one of the reasons for such reticence. I would say that not everyone is a competent orator or debater and but for me, the only argument I need is.. Because that is what I believe. I do not need to have it proven. I am not blind to evidence which others perceive as refutation. Still, my faith is my faith and needs for me no justification beyond what I feel. I wish I could instil that in everyone that had faith and but was self-conscious in any of the many ways when it came to sharing.

I think the idea of preaching inappropriately to those not willing to hear it is also at times foremost in the minds of people with a faith. And I guess the global drive to proselytise is also offputting to some. I think it is a shame that faiths compete with each other and that atheism further competes with those faiths also. Is there a theoretical compromise to be had do you think? Or will the strongest eventually defeat the weakest?

.

I don't think Christians should compromise with other religions. Nor do I think we should be antagonistic in attempting to win others to Christ. If others are antagonistic towards us, we should not return antagonism for antagonism. We should either continue to try to show them the way to salvation with love, or just leave them alone in their belief. If you believe the Bible, the strongest will eventially win. That would be Christ and His church. But the battle will be apocalyptic. ;-)

 

[Empty Hands]

I think it unfortunate that people look down on you. I could understand looking at your beliefs with sadness for you, but not from an attitude of superiority. I don't anticipate being harmed by any atheist, including you sir. I think you are wrong about believers in God being 90-95% of the population. I wish it were so. Do you have figures to back that up?

Well, I appreciate that. I understand what you mean and where you are coming from. As for the numbers, according to Pew, 78.4% of adults identify as Christian, 4.7% as other religions, and 16.1% as "unaffiliated." Of that group, 1.6% atheist, 2.4% agnostic, and 6.3% "secular unaffiliated." So at best, you have 10.3% of the population that identify as potentially without belief.

Perhaps she is hoping to get you to follow her religion, but has simply run out of reasons to convince you, and hopes the new acquaintance may follow up and bring out reasons to convince you? I don't know that to be so, and am not sure I would say that is the most fruitful way to do so. But it may simply indicate her concern for you.

This mirrors my own thoughts. Although as you said, not the "most fruitful" way to go about it. I'm mostly concerned about potential fallout.

The underlined of the above is sadly, quite true. And the religion claimed has little bearing. As to the bolded, I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying sir, that religion makes all who follow a religion sad, and not following a religion makes those people happy?

No, I think religion makes some people quite happy. What I mean is that various religious strictures and beliefs bring some good people great pain. Take, for example, a believer growing up gay in a household that teaches that homosexuality is wrong and immoral. Such a believer experiences pain in themselves from believing that what they are is wrong and they cannot change it, no matter how they try, and they experience pain if they come out as gay to those around him or her, who condemn and exclude. There are many real stories like this from gay people, I'm not just making up hypotheticals. Or a believer who scourges themselves mentally for not being able to live up to the strictures of their religion, which often is an impossible task. Or a woman believer who is taught that she must submit in meekness and bear children, when what would make her happy is a career and independence. And so on. This pain is not necessary.